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quote:

Originally posted by albertoR Actually, the contradictions page is the one taking things literally. Im just applying the correct context the goes along with the lines. Im not agreeing to it. However, its pretty much all out of context if you only grab one line and compare it with another.

Ok well I'll find contradictions and post the entire chapters to avoid the mistake of taking things out of context. What subject do you want to discuss with respects to contradictions? There are a lot so I need to narrow down the field.

quote:

Its credibility? uhmm, that is debatable weather you believe in it or not, so you cant's really make a conclusion weather its credible or not, its about faith. I think the correct term is it's ACCURACY can be called into question.

Ok well fine, allow me to clarify my stance. I don't necessarily discount the bible in its entirety as a source for some historical events. I discount the belief that the bible is the direct word of God because it's not. It's the word of men compiled by men and edited by men long past the death of Jesus. So when it lays down the "law of God", for example portions of the Old Testament, I am extremely skeptical that God wanted things that way. Similarly, when it describes certain provisions to get into heaven, I'm somewhat skeptical as to whether these are truly the intentions of God or the intentions of an organized religion aka the catholic church.

quote:

Yeah that is exactly correct, glad you comprehend. Although when God says "Thou shall not kill", its a commandment applied to the people only and not to him. If God gives permission to kill, "it is ok". God has the power of both good and evil. He is considered good to those who serve him well, and only those will recieve his love. He is just to those who serve him and those who throw themselves at his mercy. His infidels on the other hand will die.

Hmmm so if God is both evil and good, what's the role of the devil? Furthermore, according to the Old testament, shall we put to death homosexuals, adultererers, etc., since God gave us permission to kill them? Well I'm glad someone is finally admitting he's evil. I would imagine a God that sanctioned the killing and genocide of peoples inhabiting a land not "inherentely" theirs to be quite evil.

quote:

His hand was restored. Did you miss that part? God tests peoples loyalty. Just like he tested Adam and Eve. He had devised a ruele and then found a way of persuading them to break it, in order to invent punishment. He knew that Adam and Eve would become bored with perfections and would, sooner or later test his patience. He set a trap, maybe because the Almighty Lord was bored with everything going so smoothly. When the law was broken, God even pretended to pursue them, as if he did not already know every possible hididng place. With the angles looking on, amused by the game. But back to the sacrificial part, ive never seen God ask for sacrifice and let it happen and let the blood spill without Him restoring the deed or stopping the sacrifice before it occurs. Find a line that has a complete sacrifice with no restoration, and prove me wrong.

Well I was referring to the part of Josiah burning the bones on the altar. Perhaps this is a better passage:

2 Kings Chapter 23

23:15 Moreover the altar that was at Bethel, and the high place which Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, had made, both that altar and the high place he brake down, and burned the high place, and stamped it small to powder, and burned the grove.


23:16 And as Josiah turned himself, he spied the sepulchres that were there in the mount, and sent, and took the bones out of the sepulchres, and burned them upon the altar, and polluted it, according to the word of the LORD which the man of God proclaimed, who proclaimed these words.

23:17 Then he said, What title is that that I see? And the men of the city told him, It is the sepulchre of the man of God, which came from Judah, and proclaimed these things that thou hast done against the altar of Bethel.

23:18 And he said, Let him alone; let no man move his bones. So they let his bones alone, with the bones of the prophet that came out of Samaria.

23:19 And all the houses also of the high places that were in the cities of Samaria, which the kings of Israel had made to provoke the Lord to anger, Josiah took away, and did to them according to all the acts that he had done in Bethel.

23:20 And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and returned to Jerusalem.

23:21 And the king commanded all the people, saying, Keep the passover unto the LORD your God, as it is written in the book of this covenant.

23:22 Surely there was not holden such a passover from the days of the judges that judged Israel, nor in all the days of the kings of Israel, nor of the kings of Judah;



Exodus Chapter 13

13:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.

13:4 This day came ye out in the month Abib.

13:5 And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee, a land flowing with milk and honey, that thou shalt keep this service in this month.

13:6 Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD.

13:7 Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters.

13:8 And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt.

13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.

13:11 And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, as he sware unto thee and to thy fathers, and shall give it thee,

13:12 That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD's.

13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

13:14 And it shall be when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What is this? that thou shalt say unto him, By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage:

13:15 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.

13:16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt


And what of the other passage I quoted?

oh looky occy go! go occy go!

Just checking in on this thread.. and realizing I want no part (bah to much readingz)

though 27 pages, this must be a new record?

I mean.. for a non Israel/Pal thread

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Ok well I'll find contradictions and post the entire chapters to avoid the mistake of taking things out of context. What subject do you want to discuss with respects to contradictions? There are a lot so I need to narrow down the field.

Ill get back to you on this and the rest of the quotes in a couple of hour. Going out.

quote:

Ok well fine, allow me to clarify my stance. I don't necessarily discount the bible in its entirety as a source for some historical events. I discount the belief that the bible is the direct word of God because it's not. It's the word of men compiled by men and edited by men long past the death of Jesus. So when it lays down the "law of God", for example portions of the Old Testament, I am extremely skeptical that God wanted things that way. Similarly, when it describes certain provisions to get into heaven, I'm somewhat skeptical as to whether these are truly the intentions of God or the intentions of an organized religion aka the catholic church

Agreed

quote:

Hmmm so if God is both evil and good, what's the role of the devil? Furthermore, according to the Old testament, shall we put to death homosexuals, adultererers, etc., since God gave us permission to kill them? Well I'm glad someone is finally admitting he's evil. I would imagine a God that sanctioned the killing and genocide of peoples inhabiting a land not "inherentely" theirs to be quite evil.

Adultery goes against his commandment so yes, he destroys them. Homosexuality goes against his way of the course of nature. If he would allow homosexuals, why did he make Eve and not just another man. It has to be Woman and Man. I do agree with God on this one. Homosexuals are evil thats just me though. I dont mean to offend anyone here. I like lesbians though but thats an entirely different subject.
The role of the Devil is to go against God's will. This means the corruption of human beings (God's creatures). God is just. and has love, he protects his own much like a father. Has morals and if someone breaks his view of the morals, they are punished unless they repent which then he would be forgiving i would suppose? thats what i would believe, maybe a christian can say otherwise.

anyways ill be back later. This was just a quick response to the easier questions.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus oh looky occy go! go occy go! Just checking in on this thread.. and realizing I want no part (bah to much readingz) though 27 pages, this must be a new record? I mean.. for a non Israel/Pal thread

actually it's the record of polit forum

the topic has something with jews to do though, so you don't need to cry that much

source

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 No,you may think your example fits quite peachy keen.But, It doesn't.

Because?

quote:

The fact of the matter is here, We aren't trying to scare anyone. Infact,that's not how we go up to people at all. ( atleast that's not how you should. ) When Christians witness, we talk about God love, and we tell each and every person we can how much God loves them. The topic of hell is brought up sometimes, and some Christians do try to scare people into believing in God.. I don't think that's right, but If the topic of hell is brought up. I'll tell them it's not a pretty place,but it's very real just like the world we're living in now. I wish people wouldn't make the choice to go there, because I don't like people to be in pain. You're probably thinking I'm trying to get you to sympathize, but I'm not. It's just how I am, if a person is hurting I want to help. But, my job is to witness to people. Not to scare people.

No, I wouldn�t presume you attempting to gain sympathy, based on what you�ve written above. And honestly, I can appreciate your approach to non-Christians about your beliefs (to a certain extent) � compare this approach to those damn Jahovah�s Witnesses that give you handouts about fire and brimstone, and I believe I�ll always take the former any day of the week.

However, the threat of hell is inherent in your beliefs, lest you not convert. So despite the message of love and forgiveness, there is and always will be a message of hell and eternal damnation/torture/toenail-peeling pain within the Christian message. This is nothing shy of a threat, plain and simple, which was outlined in Pascal�s Wager. So let me give you the alternative scenario to fit your description:

�Hi Nessa. I know you�re a sweet loving type a gal, and I�ll have you know that I do respect your life and feelings, because I too am a loving type of being, but if you don�t give me a million dollars, I�ll be forced to torch your house and everyone who lives in it.�

quote:

I don't think I even saw that message earlier,sorry.

n/p.

quote:

But, God wouldn't want you to believe in the illogical. Why do you think he would? (IOW? Don't think I've heard of that one before.)

Because of what I said in the following:

quote:

He will most certainly know my intentions for trying to be as logical and as helpful on this planet as I can be. If that is not good enough for Him, then I would proclaim this God to be illogical and irrational (as it is clearly seen by his allowances and actions in a number of OT stories), and I want no part of Him. Period.

quote:

FYI,I had a friend on pot for a while. She just came out of it after an over dose. She also drank for a while too. Of which she's come out of.

Got hooked on pot? That�s a first I�ve ever heard. Didn�t know pot had a physical addiction. No matter, somewhat off topic.

The bottom line for this example I used is they certainly cannot control their addictions the way they should, yet they�ll receive a free pass into heaven provided they believe in Christ dying for their sins and have repentance. Compare this to individuals who have not heard of Christ, nor accept Christ but yet do extremely wonderful things for the world, from which you did talk about this later. I�ll respond to that next.

quote:

I already answered this. Further more, people all around the world can hear about God now. So many ministeries,and missionaries these days.

Indeed missionaries have reached many places, but certainly not all places. Are they worried that the places they have not reached that those poor souls will be in hell? According to you, however,

quote:

But,God is fair. If they haven't had the chance of hearing about God,they will be judge by their heart. You aren't stumping me here you know.

and then I replied,

�So you're going to go against what is stated in the Bible then? These unknowing non-Christians will be okay then, even though the Bible clearly and concisely states that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus?�

If you haven�t answered that yet, I�ll save you the double-post and you can answer this here.

Additionally, the missionary work does not excuse those individuals in the past who never knew anything about the Christian God. If God does judge these unknowing individuals by their hearts instead, why did he state otherwise in the NT (i.e. �only through Jesus�)?

quote:

It's not just Jews that will be there.

How else can you interpret Revelation 7:4?:

�And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.�

�children of Israel� is and always has been interpreted as the Jewish culture.

quote:

No contradiction. People sin, it's unfortunatly human nature. But, just because we sin doesn't always mean we have the desire to. Sometimes we make mistakes. Some people ask for forgiveness from their sins,and learn from them.So,There is a difference. Christians have been arrested aswell. I never said that atheists,agnostics,and non Christians are in jail.

No contradiction? First you say:

quote:

Once you make it right with God, you don't do those things. You have no desire to.

and then you say:

quote:

We all commit sin, we're all humans and we all make mistakes.Christians,atheists,Muslims,Jewish..etc etc etc

How can you NOT DO those things once you make it right with God and no desire to, but yet you still DO commit sin regardless of your religious affiliation? This statement in and of itself, is a contradiction. You can say it isn�t a million times, yet logically it remains the same contradiction.

Look, I�ll save you the hassle and tell you exactly what I�m getting at: just watch what you say, okay? In this particular instance, I�m deliberately tying up your words against you, so just be careful what you say and we�ll save everyone the reading time on this small, minor, redundant point.

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Which sister? I have 2 sisters. But, I'll look it up tonight. What were you looking for again? ( So I can write it down.)

paranoik0 asked:

"you missed this one nellie, explain".

He was referring to Occrider's post:

quote:

Sigh ... and he who accepts God is good? Please, spare me the petty generalizations. Being good is not defined by a belief in God just as much as not believing in God does not define evil.

From there we went into looking up references in the Bible to refute this statement. Can you find some, please?

quote:

I don't recall saying " I don't feel like it. " But, I do remeber saying " I have nothing to say to that " (Or something along the lines of such.)

I stand corrected.

quote:

Maybe you have, but I'm sure many others haven't. But, I do apologize if you took offense to this.

None taken. I'm willing to bet that there are others here who've read the Bible just as thorough, if not more so, than I have, yet they likely do not share similar views as yourself. Hence the dangers of such assumptions.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Because?

We aren't about turn or burn.

quote:

No, I wouldn�t presume you attempting to gain sympathy, based on what you�ve written above. And honestly, I can appreciate your approach to non-Christians about your beliefs (to a certain extent) � compare this approach to those damn Jahovah�s Witnesses that give you handouts about fire and brimstone, and I believe I�ll always take the former any day of the week.

Good,glad to hear you don't.
Oh heck no, I don't like Jehovah's witness.They try to tell me that by not attending their church I'm making a mistake. But, It would be a mistake attending their church in my opinion.

quote:

However, the threat of hell is inherent in your beliefs, lest you not convert. So despite the message of love and forgiveness, there is and always will be a message of hell and eternal damnation/torture/toenail-peeling pain within the Christian message. This is nothing shy of a threat, plain and simple, which was outlined in Pascal�s Wager. So let me give you the alternative scenario to fit your description:

Actually,teeth grinding tounge gnawing pain. That's in Revelation I do believe. But, the reason we mention hell sometimes is because people do need to know it's real. It's imporant. If telling a person about hell will save their soul, then I say go for it. But, I don't think anyone should go up to a non believer and say " Hey if you don't accept Christ right now, You're gonna burn in hell for eternity. By the way did I tell you about God's love? "
Totally the wrong way to approach it, very insensitive,and talk about a real turn off.

quote:

�Hi Nessa. I know you�re a sweet loving type a gal, and I�ll have you know that I do respect your life and feelings, because I too am a loving type of being, but if you don�t give me a million dollars, I�ll be forced to torch your house and everyone who lives in it.�

I still don't think it matches up.

quote:

Got hooked on pot? That�s a first I�ve ever heard. Didn�t know pot had a physical addiction. No matter, somewhat off topic.

Yeah, it can if you take it with other drugs or something. But, she was hooked. :/ (Infact I think almost anything can become an addiction.)

quote:

The bottom line for this example I used is they certainly cannot control their addictions the way they should, yet they�ll receive a free pass into heaven provided they believe in Christ dying for their sins and have repentance. Compare this to individuals who have not heard of Christ, nor accept Christ but yet do extremely wonderful things for the world, from which you did talk about this later. I�ll respond to that next.

Well,again there is a difference in believing in God,and being saved by God. Satan believes in God,he knows he's real.
And, there are a lot of false proclaimers out there. A lot of the time,you can tell what kind of person they are by their actions. ( atleast this has been my experience. ) but, only God can really tell what's going on in their hearts.

quote:

Indeed missionaries have reached many places, but certainly not all places. Are they worried that the places they have not reached that those poor souls will be in hell? According to you, however, and then I replied, �So you're going to go against what is stated in the Bible then? These unknowing non-Christians will be okay then, even though the Bible clearly and concisely states that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus?� If you haven�t answered that yet, I�ll save you the double-post and you can answer this here. Additionally, the missionary work does not excuse those individuals in the past who never knew anything about the Christian God. If God does judge these unknowing individuals by their hearts instead, why did he state otherwise in the NT (i.e. �only through Jesus�)?

Yes,that's true. They have reached several of places. But, ever heard of word of mouth? It's kind of like a chain reaction..someone hears about God,they tell another person..? I know a lot of that has happened too.


But,no I'm not going against what the Bible said/says. I'll have to think of a better way to word the answer, so give me some time.I might be able to get back to you tonight.

quote:

How else can you interpret Revelation 7:4?: �And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.� �children of Israel� is and always has been interpreted as the Jewish culture.

Not sure how I'm going to explain this one...:/ I know the answer,but I'm not sure how I'm going to word it.

quote:

How can you NOT DO those things once you make it right with God and no desire to, but yet you still DO commit sin regardless of your religious affiliation? This statement in and of itself, is a contradiction. You can say it isn�t a million times, yet logically it remains the same contradiction.

No contradiction. Read carefully,heck if you want I can lend you my reading glasses.

Christians are always trying to become a better person,more like Christ.(thus the word Christian)
We all still sin,and we all live in a sinful world. Ok? Got that so far? Ok good,onto the next part.

We don't want to sin,but we do. But, we ask for forgiveness,and learn from those mistakes,and those sins and try not to repeat the same mistake.

quote:

Look, I�ll save you the hassle and tell you exactly what I�m getting at: just watch what you say, okay? In this particular instance, I�m deliberately tying up your words against you, so just be careful what you say and we�ll save everyone the reading time on this small, minor, redundant point.

Of course I watch what I say.But, i'm not tying my words against myself.

There ain't no way I'm reading 21 pages to figure out what's going on here. All I can surmise from reading this page is that WhoaNellie is very passionate about religion and takes it very seriously, whereas a majority of this board strikes me as more agnostic or athiest. Can make for some interesting and intense discussions! Can I throw some water on this fire?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka There ain't no way I'm reading 21 pages to figure out what's going on here. All I can surmise from reading this page is that WhoaNellie is very passionate about religion and takes it very seriously, whereas a majority of this board strikes me as more agnostic or athiest. Can make for some interesting and intense discussions! Can I throw some water on this fire?

Do whatever you feel like doing.

whoa! i go to work and come home...there's 10 more pages. i finally got through reading them and my head is spinning...i feel like i spent a week in church...wow i didnt know you had so much bible knowledge, occ....you're fantastic. i was lucky that i was able to memorize my cathecism!

i gotta say...i have lots of friends who have different religions....jewish, hindu, buddist, muslim, shinto, gaiam, even one goddess, but it's the fundie christians who usually annoy the crap out of me, because they dont know when to shut up.

nellie, didnt jesus tell his followers that when they went to a new town, if people didnt believe what they had to say, they (the disciples) should leave town and let them get what they deserve? (something about sodom and gomorrah, i think????) so........just let it die already!

quote:

Originally posted by cammie whoa! i go to work and come home...there's 10 more pages. i finally got through reading them and my head is spinning...i feel like i spent a week in church...wow i didnt know you had so much bible knowledge, occ....you're fantastic. i was lucky that i was able to memorize my cathecism! i gotta say...i have lots of friends who have different religions....jewish, hindu, buddist, muslim, shinto, gaiam, even one goddess, but it's the fundie christians who usually annoy the crap out of me, because they dont know when to shut up. nellie, didnt jesus tell his followers that when they went to a new town, if people didnt believe what they had to say, they (the disciples) should leave town and let them get what they deserve? (something about sodom and gomorrah, i think????) so........just let it die already!

But beating dead horses is such a fun sport!!!!

I can't believe Opus and occrider have not both given up yet.

MrS

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Do whatever you feel like doing.

Wooosssshhhhh!!!! Gotta make it count!

yeah im tired..what happened to the thread starter? i say we call it a "whatever"

quote:

drug tito And you haven't answered the second question. What about people who never had the chance to be introduced to Jesus's teachings? What about native americans prior to 1492? What about aborigines? What about people who lived prior to Christ? What about those living in remote regions of the world where Jesus's teachings aren't known?

It's Interesting that the Aboriginal religion is over 38,000 years older than Christianity. And it contains no concept of hell.

quote:

Going by archaeological evidence, the oldest extant religion is that of the Australian Aborigines. Period. End of discussion. No other religion even comes close to its age. Complex religious pictograms found at 2 sites near Penrith and Lake Mungo in New South Wales and 1 site in Western Australia detail the Aboriginal belief in "The Dreaming" (i.e., the period of time in which the 'Wodjina' created, formed, and differentiated the world). These sites date from 45,000 BCE to 38,000 BCE respectively.

Shamefully, the early English settlers and Australians attempted to wipe out this religion by stealing an entire generation of Aboriginal children to teach them Christian values in some parts of Australia. Something that our devout christian leader John Howard will not apologise for...

Shakka i believe that helicopters name is Elvis

im the thread started, and ive just gotten home, around 7pm. last time i was on, yesterday, there was some 20 pages. now its like 26. i cant keep up. what i do is just look at the last page, and start from there.

but anyways. there are no contradictions in the bible. u just dont understand any of the logic. the bible is a book written FOR christians, BY christians, and understood ONLY by christians. it isnt just some book. all its views, stories, and content are geared toward the christian reading it. those with the holy spirit. u will never understand biblical content if u dont have the holy spirit, because that is the gift god gives you, that OPENS your eyes.

again i tell you, u will never understand the bible because it not the book because the content is not for those without the holy spirit. and as i tell you this, i know, u will laugh at the words im saying, try to refute what im saying, or not believe what im saying. all this just proves my point. u do not understand the bible, unless u are reading it from the perspective it was meant for. the bible's content does not say the things it says to anybody and everybody. it is for only those who have the perspective the bible was meant for. those with the holy spirit.

lastly, i say again, u won understand what i say, or what the bible says, because it is not from your perspective. but again and again, i will use the bible as my source, because i believe it to be the most credible source there is. even though, u dont understand the logic, perspective of the words i qoute out of it.

quote:

Going by archaeological evidence, the oldest extant religion is that of the Australian Aborigines. Period. End of discussion. No other religion even comes close to its age. Complex religious pictograms found at 2 sites near Penrith and Lake Mungo in New South Wales and 1 site in Western Australia detail the Aboriginal belief in "The Dreaming" (i.e., the period of time in which the 'Wodjina' created, formed, and differentiated the world). These sites date from 45,000 BCE to 38,000 BCE respectively.

there is no excuse for not knowing god. automatically, if your reading my words, u have no excuse for not knowing god. there is within us, an instinct of god. that gives us our concept of "right" and "wrong". morality.
----------------------
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities�his eternal power and divine nature�have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse
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John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

This is what used to be permisible. not knowing god. now that jesus has come to this earth, now there is no excuse for not knowing god. now, there is NO excuse for sin. none at all.
---------------------
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

many of u dont believe because u have never "seen" god. but jesus did, and he came to this earth, so therefore we HAVE seen god. because jesus was god on earth. so that "not seeing god" is no longer valid.

quote:

there is no excuse for not knowing god. automatically, if your reading my words, u have no excuse for not knowing god. there is within us, an instinct of god. that gives us our concept of "right" and "wrong". morality.

I do know god, the giant cookie monster gives me a sense of right and wrong, and will smite my enemies. you have no excuese for not believing in him

im the thread started, and ive just gotten home, around 7pm. last time i was on, yesterday, there was some 20 pages. now its like 26. i cant keep up. what i do is just look at the last page, and start from there.

but anyways. there are no contradictions in the bible. u just dont understand any of the logic. the bible is a book written FOR christians, BY christians, and understood ONLY by christians. it isnt just some book. all its views, stories, and content are geared toward the christian reading it. those with the holy spirit. u will never understand biblical content if u dont have the holy spirit, because that is the gift god gives you, that OPENS your eyes.

again i tell you, u will never understand the bible because it not the book because the content is not for those without the holy spirit. and as i tell you this, i know, u will laugh at the words im saying, try to refute what im saying, or not believe what im saying. all this just proves my point. u do not understand the bible, unless u are reading it from the perspective it was meant for. the bible's content does not say the things it says to anybody and everybody. it is for only those who have the perspective the bible was meant for. those with the holy spirit.

lastly, i say again, u won understand what i say, or what the bible says, because it is not from your perspective. but again and again, i will use the bible as my source, because i believe it to be the most credible source there is. even though, u dont understand the logic, perspective of the words i qoute out of it.
============================

Coming back to what i posted above, these are plenty of scripture u may not comprehend, but make my point. u dont know the power of god, or scripture. so i wouldnt recommend trying to prove your point with the bible, as some have done, because it makes no sense in your cause.

------------------------
Mark 12:24
Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?

^^My favorite when i see u try to refute the bible, by using it for your own disbelief..
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Luke 8:10
He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, " 'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.

the knowledge and secrets he is talking about is to those who have accepted him and recieved the holy spirit. we have the knowledge of the secrets of god.

but to others who have not this gift, jesus spoke to them in parables "stories", so that they might understand a little, but not all. because only a believer can understand all that jesus's message says.

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Matthew 22:29
Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
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Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom.

someone said, "whats wrong with us trying to fathom?" i think it was diginut. whoever said it was wrong to fathom?? as this verse said, his power, and understanding, his nature, none of us cant even fathom it. Same goes along with the verse below....

Ecclesiastes 8:17
then I saw all that God has done. No one can comprehend what goes on under the sun. Despite all his efforts to search it out, man cannot discover its meaning. Even if a wise man claims he knows, he cannot really comprehend it.

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz im the thread started, and ive just gotten home, around 7pm. last time i was on, yesterday, there was some 20 pages. now its like 26. i cant keep up. what i do is just look at the last page, and start from there. but anyways. there are no contradictions in the bible. u just dont understand any of the logic. the bible is a book written FOR christians, BY christians, and understood ONLY by christians. it isnt just some book. all its views, stories, and content are geared toward the christian reading it. those with the holy spirit. u will never understand biblical content if u dont have the holy spirit, because that is the gift god gives you, that OPENS your eyes. again i tell you, u will never understand the bible because it not the book because the content is not for those without the holy spirit. and as i tell you this, i know, u will laugh at the words im saying, try to refute what im saying, or not believe what im saying. all this just proves my point. u do not understand the bible, unless u are reading it from the perspective it was meant for. the bible's content does not say the things it says to anybody and everybody. it is for only those who have the perspective the bible was meant for. those with the holy spirit. lastly, i say again, u won understand what i say, or what the bible says, because it is not from your perspective. but again and again, i will use the bible as my source, because i believe it to be the most credible source there is. even though, u dont understand the logic, perspective of the words i qoute out of it.

Isn't Christianity more geared towards the bible and not vice versa? I don't think you have to be "Christian" to understand the Bible. It's not like there are secret messages in there that only become visible before the eyes of a Christian.

You simply have to research different faiths if that's your thing, and try to find one that feels right for you.

It seems to me that just about all cultures have their own unique creation story which essentially is the same story with different characters and weird funky twists, but the end result is basically the same. There's similarities with the 'beloved son' as well. Jesus has many traits that were displayed by the saviors of many other religions.

Perhaps it's not so much an issue of people not being able to understand the Bible. Perhaps it's more an issue of people not reading and processing the information in the Bible because it's volumous and the language is a bit confusing and required pause.

Even though I do agree, there are other aspects. First, there are many types of cultures as you said. This leads to other creations of stories of what their culture believes in, also as you have said. With both of these things in mind, most people are not fully educated on the Bible, and go upon saying things that may not be true because of this. Being a Christian atleast provides evidence that one is educated with the Bible. Also, "Perhaps it's not so much an issue of people not being able to understand the Bible. Perhaps it's more an issue of people not reading and processing the information in the Bible because it's volumous and the language is a bit confusing and required pause", agreed is some ways. They have many videos, preachings, etc out now that help people to further understand the bible. Veggie Tales.....

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Isn't Christianity more geared towards the bible and not vice versa? I don't think you have to be "Christian" to understand the Bible. It's not like there are secret messages in there that only become visible before the eyes of a Christian. You simply have to research different faiths if that's your thing, and try to find one that feels right for you. It seems to me that just about all cultures have their own unique creation story which essentially is the same story with different characters and weird funky twists, but the end result is basically the same. There's similarities with the 'beloved son' as well. Jesus has many traits that were displayed by the saviors of many other religions. Perhaps it's not so much an issue of people not being able to understand the Bible. Perhaps it's more an issue of people not reading and processing the information in the Bible because it's volumous and the language is a bit confusing and required pause.

thanks for proving my point perfectly. u have no concept of the purpose of the bible, christianity, or god who made the bible.

Mark 12:24
Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?

u fit right in...^

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz thanks for proving my point perfectly. u have no concept of the purpose of the bible, christianity, or god who made the bible. Mark 12:24 Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? u fit right in...^

This sounds like special pleading to me.

"Uri Geller used special pleading when he claimed that the presence of unbelievers (such as stage magicians) made him unable to demonstrate his psychic powers." (ref)

You seem to be claiming that in order to analyze the veracity of the claims made within the Bible, one must already accept those claims as true. Obviously, if the same standard were applied to all other writings, no one could deny that Zeus does in fact exist. Clearly this is problematic, as it shields the Bible and Christianity from rational inquiry - perhaps because they cannot withstand it?

Good post arbiter. I'm not sure it will sink in though.

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz im the thread started, and ive just gotten home, around 7pm. last time i was on, yesterday, there was some 20 pages. now its like 26. i cant keep up. what i do is just look at the last page, and start from there. but anyways. there are no contradictions in the bible. u just dont understand any of the logic. the bible is a book written FOR christians, BY christians, and understood ONLY by christians. it isnt just some book. all its views, stories, and content are geared toward the christian reading it. those with the holy spirit. u will never understand biblical content if u dont have the holy spirit, because that is the gift god gives you, that OPENS your eyes. again i tell you, u will never understand the bible because it not the book because the content is not for those without the holy spirit. and as i tell you this, i know, u will laugh at the words im saying, try to refute what im saying, or not believe what im saying. all this just proves my point. u do not understand the bible, unless u are reading it from the perspective it was meant for. the bible's content does not say the things it says to anybody and everybody. it is for only those who have the perspective the bible was meant for. those with the holy spirit. lastly, i say again, u won understand what i say, or what the bible says, because it is not from your perspective. but again and again, i will use the bible as my source, because i believe it to be the most credible source there is. even though, u dont understand the logic, perspective of the words i qoute out of it.

Alright no contradictions, I simply don't understand the bible because I'm not a christian or whatever (I'm catholic by the way). It was very kind of you to repeat yourself three times so that your words could permeate the dense anti-bible fog surrounding my brain that repels all understanding. Ok well, since I don't understand, and since you DO understand so amazingly well, please go back to my original post about "apparent" contradictions and please reconcile the differences. Better yet, I'll start simple.

Can you please translate the following bible speak:

2 Sam 24:9
"And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king; and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah five hundred thousand men."

And translate this bible speak:

1 Chr 21:5
"And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and a hundred thousand [1,100,000] men that drew sword; and Judah was four hundred three score and ten thousand [470,000] men that drew the sword."


Into English so that I can understand that they make complete logical and mathematical sense? Is there some kind of bible math that I'm completely missing out on?

quote:

u just dont understand any of the logic. the bible is a book written FOR christians, BY christians, and understood ONLY by christians.

So how do you explain say a Buddhist converting to Christianity. Look at it like this, the Buddhist converts because he thinks that the Christian faith is the correct one, because he was told by preachers that it was the correct faith and because the bible told him so. According to you, this is impossible, because he doesn't understand the scriptures and never will because he isn't a Christian. And the preachers that preach the bible are just putting the written words into spoken language and adding a bit of hell-fire and eternal damnation to spice it up. Or a kid. You aren't born Christian, you learn Christianity (or are forcefully taught) and then accept Jesus. But you wouldn't be able to understand the bible anyways so why would you convert in the first place.

And what about people that understood the bible (where Christian) but magically one day just stopped understanding it and can't understand it again because they aren't Christian, but then get born-again and understand it again and it all ends up like

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