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Originally posted by UmmiE watch this clip and tell me how many militant childern dead bodies do you see and see how old they are ..... Even if you write 12 paragraphs in return to me for this.... you still wont be able to justify shit to me.

I see as many militant children as I do non-militant children....they all look the same...maybe thats part of the problem.

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Originally posted by UmmiE watch this clip and tell me how many militant childern dead bodies do you see......digi plz stop.

i do think digi is stretching a bit with that remark and there is no proof that the children in that school are hamas supporters but then, you get pics like these and you gotta wonder





http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=49433

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Originally posted by UmmiE watch this clip and tell me

I fail to see how video clips prove anything, at all. We're talking about human psychology, military strategy, and broad social trends, not dramatic human experiences.

Emotional arguments may help you feel better about the point you're making, but rest assured that they hold no sway with me nor anyone else who's accustomed to drawn-out debates. Anyway, we already covered the YouTube angle in this thread.

I was impartial to the situation until now. Israel just went TOO far. Thats just not right.

If I weren't busy with university, I would love to go there and help out in the hospitals.

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Originally posted by Yohan they do. whenever a rocket hits a neighbourhood. or when suicide bomber blows up in a cafe. etc. (obviously not to degree that the palestinians are suffering now)

"suffering now?"

point me to a time when the conflict was active on both sides and the civilian death toll, on the Israeli side, was higher--I'll save you the time: you can't.

also DigiNut:

quote:

About 350 people had sought refuge at the school in an effort to escape the fighting between Israeli soldiers and militants on the outskirts of the Jabaliya refugee camp, to the east of Gaza City. Television footage showed bodies scattered on the ground amid pools of blood. The UN officials said they regularly provided the Israeli military with exact co-ordinates of their facilities, and that the school was in a built-up area. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said he was "deeply dismayed" that despite these efforts, three UN-run schools had been hit by nearby Israeli strikes. The Israeli military said that, according to initial checks, its soldiers had come under mortar fire from militants inside the al-Fakhura school. "The force responded with mortars at the source of fire," it said in a statement. "Hamas cynically uses civilians as human shields." It later reported that two well-known members of a Hamas rocket-launching cell had been among those killed at the school, naming them as Imad and Hassan Abu Askar. Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said the incident was a "very extreme example of how Hamas operates". "If you take over - I presume with guns - a UN facility. If you hold the people there as hostages, you shoot out of that facility at Israeli soldiers in the neighbourhood, then you receive incoming fire - I think that's a war crime under international law," he told the BBC. A Hamas spokesman, Fauzi Barhoun, said allegations that fighters had used the school to attack Israeli forces were "baseless". "There was no fire of any kind from the school," he told the BBC. Earlier in the day, at least three Palestinians were killed when another school was hit in the Shati camp, UN officials said. The BBC's Rushdi Abu Alouf reports from a UN school inside a Gaza refugee camp Ten people were also injured at a UN health centre in the Bureij refugee camp. Maxwell Gaylard, the UN humanitarian co-ordinator for the Palestinian territories, described the incidents as tragic and demanded an independent investigation. The director of operations for Unrwa, John Ging, told the BBC that conditions in Gaza were "horrific" and that nowhere was safe for civilians there. Mr Ging said international leaders had a responsibility to act to protect civilians, some 14,000 of whom are sheltering in UN buildings.

I particularly like this

quote:

Many claims cannot be verified. Israel is refusing to let international journalists into Gaza, despite a Supreme Court ruling to allow a limited number of reporters to enter the territory.

source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7814054.stm

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Originally posted by T_ALI I was impartial to the situation until now.

LOL, um, no you weren't. Thanks for comin' out though.

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Originally posted by Yohan and the jews came from where? middle east? i'm pretty sure jews didnt originally come from europe and if you want to argue where jews came from, where did palestinians originate from?

Christians also came from the middle east... specifically Bethlehem and Nazareth.. curretnly the Palestinian territories.. does that mean Italians are from Palestine since the are Catholic?

Palestinians are probably decendents of tribes that were also desendents from humans migrating up the Eurasian contininent hundreds of thousands of years ago.

I cant believe what youre saying. Are you actually trying to justify a RUSSIAN or a Polack as indeginous to the middle east becuase of their RELIGION???? LOL

Are all muslims descendents of people from SAudi Arabia???

quote:

Originally posted by T_ALI I was impartial to the situation until now. Israel just went TOO far. Thats just not right. If I weren't busy with university, I would love to go there and help out in the hospitals.

if you really cared then you would quit university and devote all your time to helping the cause....don't use university as an excuse to not support something you truly believe in.

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[i][b]Originally posted by DigiNut

FUCK U!!!! U HEARTLESS ASSHOLE!!!!

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Originally posted by Yohan i do think digi is stretching a bit with that remark

Sheesh, I even go out of my way to say "some, not all" and still get flak. Even in the anti-Israel videos people are posting here you can see militants that look 14. I'm not making this stuff up.

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Originally posted by T_ALI FUCK U!!!! U HEARTLESS ASSHOLE!!!!

Spoken like a truly level-headed and impartial observer.

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Originally posted by T_ALI FUCK U!!!! U HEARTLESS ASSHOLE!!!!

I'm pretty sure he has a heart....I mean...he really wouldn't be able to type on the internet without it.

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Originally posted by Yohan i do think digi is stretching a bit with that remark and there is no proof that the children in that school are hamas supporters but then, you get pics like these and you gotta wonder http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=49433

Go watch the video again......and then come back and see how old those kids are.

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Originally posted by DigiNut I fail to see how video clips prove anything, at all. Anyway, we already covered the YouTube angle in this thread.

why is the video source not something you think that offers proper news or is baised.....digi.....you cant win this argument so dont even try......fucking video evidence is something thats scares you because it shows the actual truth to the public that may not be present there to see it first hand.

have fun justifying your and (Israels) position here.Im done with you.

all news video is biased...one way or the other...for every video someone has to support their side someone else has one to support their side.

quote:

Originally posted by UmmiE why is the video source not something you think that offers proper news or is baised.....

Clearly it's biased, but even if it were completely impartial, it's irrelevant. You're posting videos without any context or any argument - what precisely is it that you think they somehow serve as evidence for? That there's a war going on down there? Yup, you got that right.

P.S. Merely saying "you can't win the argument" isn't actually going to win any argument.

quote:

Originally posted by evil_cookie "suffering now?" point me to a time when the conflict was active on both sides and the civilian death toll, on the Israeli side, was higher--I'll save you the time: you can't.

no fucking shit.

you suffer whenever one of your own dies.

and as for which side suffers more, thats why I added that bit of qualifier at the end

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Christians also came from the middle east... specifically Bethlehem and Nazareth.. curretnly the Palestinian territories.. does that mean Italians are from Palestine since the are Catholic? Palestinians are probably decendents of tribes that were also desendents from humans migrating up the Eurasian contininent hundreds of thousands of years ago. I cant believe what youre saying. Are you actually trying to justify a RUSSIAN or a Polack as indeginous to the middle east becuase of their RELIGION???? LOL Are all muslims descendents of people from SAudi Arabia???

lol. where did the religion bit came from? thanks for trying to twist my words hard

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced all news video is biased...one way or the other...for every video someone has to support their side someone else has one to support their side.

lol omg srsly? we should like totally get some other reporters in there who'll report more objectively.

oh that's right...

quote:

Israel is refusing to let international journalists into Gaza, despite a Supreme Court ruling to allow a limited number of reporters to enter the territory.

quote:

Originally posted by evil_cookie lol omg srsly? we should like totally get some other reporters in there who'll report more objectively. oh that's right...

let every reporter in the world in there and it still won't change the fact that if you want to find video to support your cause you will....for either side.

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Originally posted by evil_cookie lol omg srsly? we should like totally get some other reporters in there who'll report more objectively.

You do realize that most of the "reporters" in that region are actually Arab stringers, right? Katie Couric isn't flying down there herself to get the word on the street.

Anybody remember the blatant photoshopping of Israeli missiles and several other photos about a year and half ago, along with that old woman later dubbed Flat Fatima that appeared as the grieving widow of some 12 different families?

Media objectivity in any war is suspect because most journalists are pacifists, but when it comes to Israel/Palestine, the war is so remote both geographically and culturally that any shred of credibility went out the window years ago. You can believe it has a Pro-Israeli bias if you really want to, but either way it means you can't trust any one single video or photo or article that you read, you really have to scour every available source for any level of realism.

P.S. Also Green Helmet Guy / Harry Helmet, hahah that one was too funny.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut You can believe it has a Pro-Israeli bias if you really want to, but either way it means you can't trust any one single video or photo or article that you read, you really have to scour every available source for any level of realism.

I generally accept this.
However, I find this, among many other things, troubling:

quote:

The UN officials said they regularly provided the Israeli military with exact co-ordinates of their facilities, and that the school was in a built-up area. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said he was "deeply dismayed" that despite these efforts, three UN-run schools had been hit by nearby Israeli strikes. Earlier in the day, at least three Palestinians were killed when another school was hit in the Shati camp, UN officials said. The BBC's Rushdi Abu Alouf reports from a UN school inside a Gaza refugee camp Ten people were also injured at a UN health centre in the Bureij refugee camp. Maxwell Gaylard, the UN humanitarian co-ordinator for the Palestinian territories, described the incidents as tragic and demanded an independent investigation.

So while I generally agree that different media sources often yield different conclusions, the problem here is that even the prospect of alternative views being produced--to whatever degree of objectivity--is being denied by Israel. Even when it's demanded by outside actors.

And if it is a case of 'their-word-against-ours' (at least as it appears to us via the media,) then why not allow even the possibility of someone who might not have a political agenda to investigate and report on the scenario?

Better yet: what if the death toll was reversed; what if 6 people in Gaza were dead and 640 Israelis were dead?

I think it's safe to say that if this were the case, no such ban on foreign reporting/investigation would take place.

quote:

Originally posted by evil_cookie So while I generally agree that different media sources often yield different conclusions, the problem here is that even the prospect of alternative views being produced--to whatever degree of objectivity--is being denied by Israel. Even when it's demanded by outside actors. And if it is a case of 'their-word-against-ours' (at least as it appears to us via the media,) then why not allow even the possibility of someone who might not have a political agenda to investigate and report on the scenario? Better yet: what if the death toll was reversed; what if 6 people in Gaza were dead and 640 Israelis were dead? I think it's safe to say that if this were the case, no such ban on foreign reporting/investigation would take place.

Israel is playing some dirty tricks here.

One of the first thing you try to control in a war is information. Israel will not win this aspect of this war though. Internet and satellite prevents this

I'm really happy to see that there are some intelligent people that have joined this discussion...

Anybody at this point that tries to justify the shit that is going is a fucking prejudiced and hateful....innocent human beings are being murdered..!! They have done nothing to deserve this horrible fate...and there are people in this thread that still try to excuse this??!! seriously, go fuck yourselves..if this was happening to any one of you or your family/friends...you would sing a far different tune..

There is hardly any aid getting into these people..they have no food..electricity..medical care...and they are NOT allowed to leave!! Reporters are not allowed in to report because they don't want to world to see what they are doing! Come on people..even if you are a supporter of Israel..you still have to know that this is fucking bullshit!..or are you so driven by your bias and hate that you can't think straight??

I can only imagine the horror these people are going through...We are lucky enough to live in this safe country and there are people right now..sitting at their computers trying to justify these acts..you guys seriously make me sick..

If you're going to bomb millitary targets at least let the citizens flee and protect themselves..they are just sitting ducks..being exterminated...it's so easy to say that there were members of hamas in a school or mosque..they can say anything they want and therefore bomb anything they want....??!!

where the fuck is the accountability????

quote:

Originally posted by gummybear I'm really happy to see that there are some intelligent people that have joined this discussion... Anybody at this point that tries to justify the shit that is going is a fucking prejudiced and hateful....innocent human beings are being murdered..!! They have done nothing to deserve this horrible fate...and there are people in this thread that still try to excuse this??!! seriously, go fuck yourselves..if this was happening to any one of you or your family/friends...you would sing a far different tune.. There is hardly any aid getting into these people..they have no food..electricity..medical care...and they are NOT allowed to leave!! Reporters are not allowed in to report because they don't want to world to see what they are doing! Come on people..even if you are a supporter of Israel..you still have to know that this is fucking bullshit!..or are you so driven by your bias and hate that you can't think straight?? I can only imagine the horror these people are going through...We are lucky enough to live in this safe country and there are people right now..sitting at their computers trying to justify these acts..you guys seriously make me sick..

ohnoes. am I in trouble again? (even though I'm condemning Israel too?)

quote:

If you're going to bomb millitary targets at least let the citizens flee and protect themselves..they are just sitting ducks..being exterminated...it's so easy to say that there were members of hamas in a school or mosque..they can say anything they want and therefore bomb anything they want....??!!

more food for thought

Israel gets intelligence that Hamas rocket makers are using a school in a civillian neighbourhood.

Israel broadcasts a warning to all Palestinian civillians to leave the area.

Hamas rocket makers get a wind of this, so they pack up and leave.

Israel ends up at square one.

quote:

where the fuck is the accountability????

none. hence why it's so frustrating watching this shit happen right now

CNN Confirms Israel Broke Ceasefire First

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH ... nobody ever takes into account the conditions that the Palestinians have been subjected to live in for the past few decades.

Maybe if Palestinian governments started spending money on supporting their people and building their infrastructure, and stopped wasting it on bombs that they launch at Israel, the Palestinian territories wouldn't have to be effectively shut down by the Israeli government to prevent attack.

Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Spam Maybe if Palestinian governments started spending money on supporting their people and building their infrastructure, and stopped wasting it on bombs that they launch at Israel, the Palestinian territories wouldn't have to be effectively shut down by the Israeli government to prevent attack. Just a thought.

it's from wiki, so take it as it's worth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Activities

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