TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- 'No God' Ads, Soon To Appear On TTC Vehicles, Spark Heated Debate
Pages (18): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 »

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan

ok, the "probably no god" ad was at least a little thought provoking and had a simple positive message, but this one is just retarded...

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess lol, i almost feel this is photoshopped.

Think the same

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess lol, i almost feel this is photoshopped. and i find it very offensive. as a scientist i know that science flew us to the moon but also science flies any plane and allows for big buildings to exist so that argument is flawed.

thats where you're wrong....science is an entity in itself which only exists opposing this thing we call God...

both entities can NOT co-exist

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess lol, i almost feel this is photoshopped.

It is. Somebody did it and threw it up on Dawkins' site for a joke/discussion. They were VERY careful in how they picked the wording for the "there is probably no god" ads. They'd never actually put something like this up.

I found it pretty darn funny, because it is true (from certain point of view at least)

Stupid dumb fundies... ruins religion for everyone

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Unfortunately, my friend, atheism is the positive position that there is no god(s). The only one of these three classes of atheism (which have been developed as a response to the charge that atheism is unprovable) that is actually atheism is what has recently been termed "strong atheism," the other two are really agnostic positions which have been co-opted by people who style themselves as atheists.

Atheism is the BELIEF in the nonexistence of gods, just as theism is the belief in the existence of gods. If you asked somebody if they believe in god and they said yes, you would call them a theist. They don't have to claim that they "are 100% certain that god exists" to be a theist.

Strong atheism ASSERTS that there are no gods ("I know there is no god"), whereas weaker forms of atheism will merely eschew belief in gods (weak atheism) or act as though there are no gods despite the inability to disprove their existence (de facto atheism).

Many older philosophers (Antony Flew, for example) used the terms "positive atheism" and "negative atheism" to describe the exact same notions. You are describing positive atheism (aka strong atheism) above.

Being agnostic alone implies nothing about how one makes decisions. An agnostic might decide that he better obey some of the laws of religion "just in case" religion is true. A de facto atheist considers the probability of gods existing to be too low to warrant any action as if they existed. This defines the positions of many nontheists today. If you don't believe in a god, you're an atheist.

Gnosticism and agnosticism refer to belief about whether the existence of gods CAN be known. The scales of gnosticism/agnosticism and atheism/theism are really quite orthogonal, and any combination is possible. See Agnostic Atheism and Agnostic Theism.

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess lol, i almost feel this is photoshopped. and i find it very offensive. as a scientologist...

fixed for accuracy

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit fixed for accuracy

all hail XENU!!

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard The only one of these three classes of atheism (which have been developed as a response to the charge that atheism is unprovable) that is actually atheism is what has recently been termed "strong atheism," the other two are really agnostic positions which have been co-opted by people who style themselves as atheists. ... If one is to be considered an atheist they're position must be that there is no god(s) not just that one particular god does not exist.

Agree completely. There's no other way of defining it that won't lead you into a clusterfuck of logical inconsistencies and impossibilities.

As an agnostic who believes that the probability of there being a god is not high enough to even warrant serious discussion, much less major lifestyle changes, I do not appreciate being lumped into the same category of people who put up bus ads and spend their free time trying to convince everybody that there really is no god. I don't want to join your club. I renounce this honorary membership. Understand?

As long as you are trying to persuade others to your position, it matters not whether you "know" something or merely "believe" it. Either way, you are making a positive claim. Either way, you have the burden of proof. Either way, you need positive evidence to support your claim, not just a refutation of somebody else's.

First off, I find it hilariously hypocritical that the Churches throw a hissy-fit when the No-God ad signs are announced, saying that it is offensive and intrudes on people's thoughts and beliefs.
Their response? 'There probably is a God' signs! HAHA. Typical.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut As an agnostic who believes that the probability of there being a god is not high enough to even warrant serious discussion, much less major lifestyle changes, I do not appreciate being lumped into the same category of people who put up bus ads and spend their free time trying to convince everybody that there really is no god. I don't want to join your club. I renounce this honorary membership. Understand?

U mad? One SINGLE BUS AD is hurting you that much? Funny, I haven't seen much of ANY Atheist/anti-god advertisment ANYWHERE else. Whereas, with religion - you have people spewing it on radio, television and media all day every day. You have people COMING up to your house to sell you their latest delusions. You have 3 people in particular who stand at Dundas Square in Toronto for YEARS now holding up signs and literally screaming nonsense and drivel in our ears. Yet one fricking bus ad for the other side and its considered offensive and an attack on people's beliefs and private space? Seems like you have it backwards there pal.

quote:

As long as you are trying to persuade others to your position, it matters not whether you "know" something or merely "believe" it. Either way, you are making a positive claim. Either way, you have the burden of proof. Either way, you need positive evidence to support your claim, not just a refutation of somebody else's.

Thanks for describing exactly why religion and those who believe it and push it onto others is so ridiculously inane and stupid. It's funny that you talk about being 'lumped in' with others, when the actual case is that religious people tend to just label any godless person as 'atheist'. Atheism has become a fricking religion onto itself because of religious buffoons.

quote:

Originally posted by dipsetrenegade First off, I find it hilariously hypocritical that the Churches throw a hissy-fit when the No-God ad signs are announced, saying that it is offensive and intrudes on people's thoughts and beliefs. Their response? 'There probably is a God' signs! HAHA. Typical. U mad? One SINGLE BUS AD is hurting you that much? Funny, I haven't seen much of ANY Atheist/anti-god advertisment ANYWHERE else. Whereas, with religion - you have people spewing it on radio, television and media all day every day. You have people COMING up to your house to sell you their latest delusions. You have 3 people in particular who stand at Dundas Square in Toronto for YEARS now holding up signs and literally screaming nonsense and drivel in our ears. Yet one fricking bus ad for the other side and its considered offensive and an attack on people's beliefs and private space? Seems like you have it backwards there pal. Thanks for describing exactly why religion and those who believe it and push it onto others is so ridiculously inane and stupid. It's funny that you talk about being 'lumped in' with others, when the actual case is that religious people tend to just label any godless person as 'atheist'. Atheism has become a fricking religion onto itself because of religious buffoons.

you talk about people not wanting to be "lumped in" to a group, well you just did the lumping yourself....I do not appreciate being told that I try to push religion in anyone's face because I dont do it. there are only a few christian sects that do this and you consider this a reflection of ALL of us? lol you're a contradiction of yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by dipsetrenegade U mad? One SINGLE BUS AD is hurting you that much?

What the hell are you talking about? Did you even bother to read the preceding posts for context, or did you just pick out 3 words and start shooting your mouth off?

My point, which seems to have gone completely over your head, was that in spite of not believing in any god, I refuse to be identified with the atheists, who seem to think that "freedom of religion" means abolishing it entirely.

quote:

Funny, I haven't seen much of ANY Atheist/anti-god advertisment ANYWHERE else. Whereas, with religion - you have people spewing it on radio, television and media all day every day. Blah blah blah blah blah

Just for the record, I never said that this ad was somehow worse than any of the televangelists or door-to-door bible thumpers (not that I've actually run into any in, well, ever). I merely pointed out the hypocrisy in them running these ads while simultaneously criticizing the Christians for doing the same.

quote:

Atheism has become a fricking religion onto itself because of religious buffoons.

No, it became a fricking religion when they started trying to convert Christians and Jews and other "religious" people, going so far as to put up "thought-provoking" ads against religion. Freedom of speech and all that, they're certainly entitled to put that message out there, but to me, any group of people running around telling other people what to believe without a shred of supporting evidence classifies as a religion. Or a cult, take your pick.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut What the hell are you talking about? Did you even bother to read the preceding posts for context, or did you just pick out 3 words and start shooting your mouth off? My point, which seems to have gone completely over your head, was that in spite of not believing in any god, I refuse to be identified with the atheists, who seem to think that "freedom of religion" means abolishing it entirely. Thanks for telling atheists what they think. Me personally, freedom from religion would be a perfect thing. [quote] Just for the record, I never said that this ad was somehow worse than any of the televangelists or door-to-door bible thumpers (not that I've actually run into any in, well, ever). I merely pointed out the hypocrisy in them running these ads while simultaneously criticizing the Christians for doing the same. So one single bus ad that isn't out yet is the same thing as thousands of religious drivel in all forms being spewed as us for years and years? Interesting. [quote] No, it became a fricking religion when they started trying to convert Christians and Jews and other "religious" people, going so far as to put up "thought-provoking" ads against religion. Freedom of speech and all that, they're certainly entitled to put that message out there, but to me, any group of people running around telling other people what to believe without a shred of supporting evidence classifies as a religion. Or a cult, take your pick.

LOL looks like someone needs to go back to school or pick up a book (non science-fiction preferably).

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut What the hell are you talking about? Did you even bother to read the preceding posts for context, or did you just pick out 3 words and start shooting your mouth off? My point, which seems to have gone completely over your head, was that in spite of not believing in any god, I refuse to be identified with the atheists, who seem to think that "freedom of religion" means abolishing it entirely.

Thanks for telling atheists what they think. Me personally, freedom from religion would be a perfect thing.

quote:

Just for the record, I never said that this ad was somehow worse than any of the televangelists or door-to-door bible thumpers (not that I've actually run into any in, well, ever). I merely pointed out the hypocrisy in them running these ads while simultaneously criticizing the Christians for doing the same.

So one single bus ad that isn't out yet here (and will probably get shut down before it does) is the same thing as thousands of religious drivel in all forms being spewed at us for years and years? Interesting.

quote:

No, it became a fricking religion when they started trying to convert Christians and Jews and other "religious" people, going so far as to put up "thought-provoking" ads against religion. Freedom of speech and all that, they're certainly entitled to put that message out there, but to me, any group of people running around telling other people what to believe without a shred of supporting evidence classifies as a religion. Or a cult, take your pick.

LOL looks like someone needs to go back to school or pick up a book (non science-fiction preferably).

http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/03/hal...ampaign-slogan/


Yesterday we official received word from Sherry Kirwin, General Manager of Pattison Maritimes, that our banner is too �controversial� for Halifax Metro Transit.
�We are aware of your message due to the existing media coverage you are experiencing. We are not able to accept your message as it currently reads.


Pretty pathetic but not surprised. Especially pathetic given how many religious ads the buses run including anti-abortion ads.

No to atheistbus, Yes to bangbus.

quote:

Originally posted by dipsetrenegade Me personally, freedom from religion would be a perfect thing.

Which makes you a fascist.

quote:

So one single bus ad that isn't out yet here (and will probably get shut down before it does) is the same thing as thousands of religious drivel in all forms being spewed at us for years and years?

Yes, it is. The quantity isn't relevant here. When you criticize someone else for something and you're caught doing it yourself, it isn't a defense to say "oh, but I only did it once!"

quote:

LOL looks like someone needs to go back to school or pick up a book (non science-fiction preferably).

Oooohh, I know you are but what am I!!!! What is this, 3rd grade?



P.S. lern2quote

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Oooohh, I know you are but what am I!!!! What is this, 3rd grade? P.S. lern2quote

more like a fuckin nursery

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Which makes you a fascist.

I do not appreciate being lumped into the same category of people who put up bus ads and spend their free time trying to convince everybody that there really is a god. I don't want to join your club. I renounce this honorary membership. Understand?

quote:

Yes, it is. The quantity isn't relevant here. When you criticize someone else for something and you're caught doing it yourself, it isn't a defense to say "oh, but I only did it once!"

Huh? If they do it all the time, we have the right to do it too. Period.

quote:

[FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]Oooohh, I know you are but what am I!!!! What is this, 3rd grade?

Considering the level of intelligence you've shown so far, sure looks like it.

The site might be atheistbus.ca but last time I checked.

A) Dawkins himself doesn't claim to be an atheist and acknowledges such in his books.

B) The ad clearly states that 'there probably is no god'. there is no reference made to a positive claim.

quote:

Originally posted by dipsetrenegade Huh? If they do it all the time, we have the right to do it too. Period.

You have the right to do it regardless of whether or not "they" do it. And you have the right to complain about other people doing it. But if you do both, you come off as a douchebag. Period.

quote:

Considering the level of intelligence you've shown so far, sure looks like it.

Excuse me while I cry because some anonymous fucktard on the internet who spells "you" as "U" thinks that I'm not well-educated.

You're definitely not helping to substantiate the argument that atheists are better-educated or have better critical thinking skills than theists.

quote:

B) The ad clearly states that 'there probably is no god'. there is no reference made to a positive claim.

That is still a positive claim, it is simply a weaker positive claim. If your doctor told you that "you probably have less than one week to live" without giving any additional information, wouldn't you be slightly suspicious?

quote:

Originally posted by dipsetrenegade Dawkins himself doesn't claim to be an atheist and acknowledges such in his books.

Dawkins defines himself as a "de facto atheist" as described in my previous posts (see pages 50-51 of the God delusion). He doesn't consider himself a strong atheist. Most strong atheists employ arguments like Theological Noncognitivism to justify their positions. Michael Martin has written a lot about this and some of his stuff is very interesting and provides solid justification for why positive atheism is a legitimate position.

It is naive to conclude that strong atheism is fallacious or unjustified merely for unprovability reasons, and I wish diginut and others would stop doing this. There has been a lot written on the subject and many authors disagree with you.

**edited because I don't have time to inflame anyone today.

Sad insults is the best response you can come up with? LOL. Here's a video to cheer you up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsmD9iB5CiQ&eurl=http://www.google.com/reader/view/?tab=my

quote:

Excuse me while I cry because some anonymous fucktard on the internet who spells "you" as "U" thinks that I'm not well-educated. You're definitely not helping to substantiate the argument that atheists are better-educated or have better critical thinking skills than theists.

Yes, and you're doing fucking wonders for the agnostic crowd. Oh, sorry you're not in a crowd. Forgot about that.

quote:

That is still a positive claim, it is simply a weaker positive claim. If your doctor told you that "you probably have less than one week to live" without giving any additional information, wouldn't you be slightly suspicious?

The thing I love about logic is I don't have to prove god doesn't exist, someone else has to prove he does.

quote:

Originally posted by dipsetrenegade The thing I love about logic is I don't have to prove god doesn't exist, someone else has to prove he does.

no....obviously logic is lost on you.

GOD is probably really pissed off knowing what a mess mankind has made of his/her/it's Earth.


It sucks that at the present time, the bad outweighs the good.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.