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quote:

Originally posted by Excess 1200 would be starvation for anyone whos obese. it'd probably be more detrimental than helpful for...anyone to eat only 1200 calories :P

your body weight multiplied by 10 = calories needed to maintain your body weight. Add activities on top of that to creat more of a deficit

it takes 3500 calories to burn off a lb of fat (negative)

so if your 120 lbs 1200 calories just to maintain yoru body weight. 400 calories of activity (walking working etc) gets you to 1600 calories.


you consume 1600 calories you won't lose weight. 1200 calories will give you negative 400 calories net loss per day

400 x 7 = 2800 = almost 1 lb of fat per week.


people who are overweight should generally overestimate their calorie consumption since the have a slow metabolism.

IF that coke says 100 calories count it as 120 to help create more of a deficit.

eat frequently during the day so your body doesnt go into ketosis and use muscle tissue for energy.

if your eating frequently during the day theres no reason why 1500 or 1200 calories would be like starving.


Lots of salad and protein.. limit the carbs. eat frequently you'll be fine


my co worker was 260 lbs has dropped down to 240 in a month and a half with a 1500 calorie diet

so his daily deficit would be 260x10 + 600 (activity) = 3200

3200 - 1500 calories per day gives you 1700 calories lost per day


3500 / 1700 = 1 lb on average every 2 days so 3 or 4 lbs lost per week

The math works but it doesn't always work that easily. I have a friend who desperately wants to lose like 20lbs and he can't. The guy eats less than I do and exercises. I think his body just got used to running on less food and his metabolism is at a stand still. He is like 5'10" and 150 which I don't think is fat...either way just saying not so cut and dry.

That is probably because it is almost impossible for a 70" male to cut down to 130 from 150.

What I said was true. I usually eat about 1500 calories a day. Starving is eating 0 calories.

quote:

Originally posted by chimera66 The math works but it doesn't always work that easily. I have a friend who desperately wants to lose like 20lbs and he can't. The guy eats less than I do and exercises. I think his body just got used to running on less food and his metabolism is at a stand still. He is like 5'10" and 150 which I don't think is fat...either way just saying not so cut and dry.

who said its easy?


I am 150 lbs right now and i have to underestimate my calorie consumption while trying to get to 3500 to 4000 calories per day. Its difficult because if i miss 1 or 2 days without at least 3000 calories i lose weight.

so although my math says i burn about 2100 calories per day (150 x 10 + 600) i think its closer to around 2700 because of my fast metabolism.

that being said i go with a 3500 to 4000 calorie diet and underestimate calorie consumption. 1 bowl of spagetti is 500 calories so i count it as 450 etc.


Trust me it works. I have put on 10 lbs in the past month and a half. I need to work better with my diet.

you work out hard.. you should eat hard as well (wether its less or more) do what you got to do.. the science is there and the math is too.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild That is probably because it is almost impossible for a 70" male to cut down to 130 from 150. What I said was true. I usually eat about 1500 calories a day. Starving is eating 0 calories.

hah.. give me a week ill do it no problem

I could do it too, but hunger is nothing to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild I could do it do, but hunger is nothing to me.

yeah.. i used to be 115 at 5"11 so naturally my body wants to be super skinny

Holy fuck!

quote:

Originally posted by Zild That is probably because it is almost impossible for a 70" male to cut down to 130 from 150. What I said was true. I usually eat about 1500 calories a day. Starving is eating 0 calories.

i think what he meant was 1200 is close to starving for someone who eats well over double that daily. they don't know anything about food generally and couldn't put together healthy meals by themselves.

as for my friend, he's a crazy gay what can i say. i don't think its possible for him to lose any more than 10lbs max and still look relatively healthy.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit who said its easy? I am 150 lbs right now and i have to underestimate my calorie consumption while trying to get to 3500 to 4000 calories per day. Its difficult because if i miss 1 or 2 days without at least 3000 calories i lose weight. so although my math says i burn about 2100 calories per day (150 x 10 + 600) i think its closer to around 2700 because of my fast metabolism. that being said i go with a 3500 to 4000 calorie diet and underestimate calorie consumption. 1 bowl of spagetti is 500 calories so i count it as 450 etc. Trust me it works. I have put on 10 lbs in the past month and a half. I need to work better with my diet. you work out hard.. you should eat hard as well (wether its less or more) do what you got to do.. the science is there and the math is too.

damn that's hard actually, 3000 calories a day of healthy clean foods. i couldn't do it. honestly i have no idea how many calories i take in a day but i have to guess half of what you do.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit eat frequently during the day so your body doesnt go into ketosis and use muscle tissue for energy.

Wrong. Ketosis is not a low calorie thing. It's the process of the body breaking down fat into ketone bodies for a fuel source. You go into ketosis simply by Eliminating carbs from the diet, and increasing your fat intake. The process takes anywhere from 3 days to a week or more depending on the individual. You would still eat your maintenance calories for the day.

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY Wrong. Ketosis is not a low calorie thing. It's the process of the body breaking down fat into ketone bodies for a fuel source. You go into ketosis simply by Eliminating carbs from the diet, and increasing your fat intake. The process takes anywhere from 3 days to a week or more depending on the individual. You would still eat your maintenance calories for the day.

ok the part about using muscle tissue i appologize for that incorrect statement.

Howevery the liver has a tendancy to break down muscle tissue during ketosis and fatty acid reserves are utulized for caloric consumption

1 gram of fat contains 9 kcal as ooposed to carbs and proteins which each hold 4kcal.

Thus by your 3 week logic you should eat frequently as your diet would definatley prolongue 3 weeks.

so i conclude that its safer when maintaining a low caloric diet to eat that caloric goal throughout the day in frequent divisions. Whereas not limiting yourself to 2 or 1 meal a day of low caloric intake.

As well when you eat freqently you avoid starving yourself and the urge of over consumption. If you eat freqently you will satiate your apetite.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit ok the part about using muscle tissue i appologize for that incorrect statement. Howevery the liver has a tendancy to break down muscle tissue during ketosis and fatty acid reserves are utulized for caloric consumption 1 gram of fat contains 9 kcal as ooposed to carbs and proteins which each hold 4kcal.

read about keto then come back and we'll discuss it. I have used it with unreal results, and I got my friends hooked on it.

Just got back from doing triceps and forearms good work out

quote:

Originally posted by chach Seriously it pisses me off so hard core. And ugh to see these stupid trainers with fat ass bitches and get paid insane amounts of money really pisses me off. These 2 same fat girls come in with a trainer all the time its been like 5 months and they still look fat as shit. If I was a trainer I would work the shit out of them, meanwhile hes over there doing non weighted lunges across the gym

A trainer isn't a dietitian/nutritionist though

I imagine he can give them tips on what to eat/how much to eat etc...but they probably wouldn't listen anyway. Being fat is a lifestyle.

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY read about keto then come back and we'll discuss it. I have used it with unreal results, and I got my friends hooked on it.

read the rest of my post :P i edited it lol.

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY read about keto then come back and we'll discuss it. I have used it with unreal results, and I got my friends hooked on it.

the problem with it is the following:


a) you ca experience muscle breakdown (there are also recent studies that may suggest other wise, and i see your point)

b) starving yourself throughout the day gives you an urge to overeat when its time for your meals. This is difficult for people who are used to consuming 5000 cal and your restricting them to 1 or 2 meals to total 1500 cal. They will probably gorge and not meet the diet requirements set.


c) Its not gradual and its a shock to the body. I would probably not recomend it to someone that is extremely obese or has health problems. Your shocking your body, who knows what else may go wrong.




So yes you do have a point but at the same time the method im suggesting may work too. Its not as harsh and you will not experience muscle loss as the body is receving nutrients on a continual basis.

This method im suggesting is the safest and most commonly used method (since its been around for the longest) and studies have conclusively shown that it works.




The math is right and thats why all foods have nutritional lables with caloric quantities on them.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit the problem with it is the following: a) you ca experience muscle breakdown (there are also recent studies that may suggest other wise, and i see your point) b) starving yourself throughout the day gives you an urge to overeat when its time for your meals. This is difficult for people who are used to consuming 5000 cal and your restricting them to 1 or 2 meals to total 1500 cal. They will probably gorge and not meet the diet requirements set. c) Its not gradual and its a shock to the body. I would probably not recomend it to someone that is extremely obese or has health problems. Your shocking your body, who knows what else may go wrong. So yes you do have a point but at the same time the method im suggesting may work too. Its not as harsh and you will not experience muscle loss as the body is receving nutrients on a continual basis. This method im suggesting is the safest and most commonly used method (since its been around for the longest) and studies have conclusively shown that it works. The math is right and thats why all foods have nutritional lables with caloric quantities on them.

I dunno why you think this is a starvation diet, or why you think there is muscle breakdown. That occurs when you cut cals well below maintenance. Like I said go read about it, and you will see there is hardly any muscle breakdown b ecause you are not starving yourself. For me, I would eat 3500 cals (sometimes more)and I was losing 3lbs a week. I'm 5-10 and was 180 at the time. I stayed on till I dropped to 160. Typical meals were ground beef with melted cheese all over it, whole eggs (usally 3-4) with bacon, and sausage, cooked in coconut oil. I would eat a bunch of cheese throughout thee day and tons of salad with full fat dressing...hardly a starvation diet. All you are doing is training the body to target fat as the fuel source, and it then breaks it down into ketones and then to good ole glucose, mainly for the brain. The rest of the body will run on fat. As for obese people, this is an excellent diet for them, but BB's use it to drop to very low BF % pre-contest. They wouldn't use this if indeed there was muscle loss.

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY I dunno why you think this is a starvation diet, or why you think there is muscle breakdown. That occurs when you cut cals well below maintenance. Like I said go read about it, and you will see there is hardly any muscle breakdown b ecause you are not starving yourself. For me, I would eat 3500 cals (sometimes more)and I was losing 3lbs a week. I'm 5-10 and was 180 at the time. I stayed on till I dropped to 160. Typical meals were ground beef with melted cheese all over it, whole eggs (usally 3-4) with bacon, and sausage, cooked in coconut oil. I would eat a bunch of cheese throughout thee day and tons of salad with full fat dressing...hardly a starvation diet. All you are doing is training the body to target fat as the fuel source, and it then breaks it down into ketones and then to good ole glucose, mainly for the brain. The rest of the body will run on fat. As for obese people, this is an excellent diet for them, but BB's use it to drop to very low BF % pre-contest. They wouldn't use this if indeed there was muscle loss.

how are you loosing 3 lbs a week when eating 3500 calories?

this doesnt make sense to me


180x10 = 1800

3500-1800 = 1700 calories need to be used up each day just to maintain

if you want to lose 3 lbs a week you have to use up another 1500 calories so that makes your new required deficit to be 3200 (1500 + 1700)kcal


the only other thing i can think of is if your thinking your metabolism is super fast (like that of a mouse) but even then that dosnt make sense


(note post was edited because of stupid math)

Weeeeeeeeeeeeee! Omg gym felt AMAZING!! Yayyyy!

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit how are you loosing 3 lbs a week when eating 3500 calories? this doesnt make sense to me 180x10 = 1800 3500-1800 = 1700 calories need to be used up each day just to maintain if you want to lose 3 lbs a week you have to use up another 1500 calories so that makes your new required deficit to be 3200 (1500 + 1700)kcal the only other thing i can think of is if your thinking your metabolism is super fast (like that of a mouse) but even then that dosnt make sense (note post was edited because of stupid math)

That's why I recommend keto brotha. You can't ignore macros. Insulin spikes turn off fat burning processes.

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY That's why I recommend keto brotha. You can't ignore macros.

while your marketing tone is nice, please provide some links so i can read up on this. How calorie deficit and centuries of science can completely be ignored


im sure your position has merit but 3500 calories at 160 lbs in a day sounds completely illogical and nonsensical.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit while your marketing tone is nice, please provide some links so i can read up on this. How calorie deficit and centuries of science can completely be ignored im sure your position has merit but 3500 calories at 160 lbs in a day sounds completely illogical and nonsensical.

Why? 3500 cals is nothing mate. I can eat 5k cals with my current workout and barely gain anything in a month

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY Why? 3500 cals is nothing mate. I can eat 5k cals with my current workout and barely gain anything in a month

if what you say is true then the following is also true, either:


a) you have a fast metabolism

or

b) you are doing so much activity during the day that your burning over 3500 calories or close too.



the calorie math works.

Now keep in mind you cant just eat milkshakes all day and expect to gain proper weight. you need a balance of proteins cabs (simple and complex) as well as fats.

otherwise you just get diarrhea .



again.. show me a scholarly article explaning the ketosis diet is healthy safe and doesnt result in muscle loss and health problems to those who are unfit.


and also show me how you can debunk my math and go from 180 to 160 on a 3500 calorie diet when you are only burning maximum 2500 ( thats 1800 + 700 Activity [usually an intense intense cardio session is 400 cal so im giving you an extra 300 as a benefit of doubt]).

again 3500cal per 1 lb of fat. 3 to 4 lbs lost a week?
you would actually gain around 2 lbs a week 1000 calorie surplus per day x 7 = 7000 cal which equals 3500 cal multiplied by 2.

now remember that your average fat person has a slower metabolsim than average so those numbers i listed should be over estimated. that would mean more than a 2 lb gain per week.


I gave you the math and the logic.. you gave me "It works man.. trust me".

As for now i don't buy it.

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