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Ok so the little 'm' means minor? Why does Camelot use 'A' and 'B'? I think I'm confused with majors and minors :P Can a tune have both?

quote:

Originally posted by TruffleShuffle Ok so the little 'm' means minor? Why does Camelot use 'A' and 'B'? I think I'm confused with majors and minors :P Can a tune have both?

Becuase the camelot method tells you exactly which keys work with which. Where as if you go by the regular way of identifying musical notes you have to understand music theory in a deeper way. You can't just follow the progression if you just follow the order of keys.

You would have to use it something like

Fm, Cm, Gm, Dm, Am, Em, Bm etc. which is a lot harder to remember at first than 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc...
(I didn't include any major keys as they don't come about that often. Currently I have none in my current play list.

But in answer to your question a tune could change between the two even if it is rare, in trance at least.

Camelot's method have simplified this a whole lot.

Cheers
Nem

But the Camelot system is not 1,2,3, etc. The guy posted the numbers all out of order hehe.

quote:

Originally posted by TruffleShuffle But the Camelot system is not 1,2,3, etc.

Yes it is, that's the whole point of it.
Johny just posted it in the order of the chromatic scale.

The reason why I left out the major/minor bit is that it tends not to be relevant for trance DJs and very little trance is made in major keys.

Nem

quote:

Originally posted by TruffleShuffle The guy posted the numbers all out of order hehe.

LOL - a lot to learn :-)

quote:

Originally posted by johnny2003 LOL - a lot to learn :-)

As I said before, I have very little musical background.

quote:

Originally posted by TruffleShuffle As I said before, I have very little musical background.

we all did once, you'll learn it in no time :-)

SVGmethod.

Read some of your list, and saw some mistakes.

Andain - Beautiful Things is Em not Am
Marco V - Cafe Del Mar remix is Fm not Em ( as far as I remember, need to check to make sure)
Oaky - Southern Sun NOT NOT NOT Bm!!!!!! I have talked aboutt his tune till I am blue in the face, it is G major. Listen to the chorus man!
The first chord is Bm in the verse, but so what? The next chord is C, and theres an Am in there too, not in the key of Bm in a million years.


The whole point of harmonic mixing guys is to avoid clashes of melody.
Of course you don't have to mix two tunes in the same key all night, yes that would be boring!
But if you know your keys then you can mix melodies on top of each other without worrying too much about it sounding sour, whereas if you don't know the key then you are guessing and you will get it wrong probably. And going from Cm to Fm is excellent, don't see anything wrong with that?

It's a little bit off-topic, but I thought I show you this:

these are the cdrs of Markus Schulz. You can see that he writes the key and BPM on it

quote:

Originally posted by Rockabye It's a little bit off-topic, but I thought I show you this: these are the cdrs of Markus Schulz. You can see that he writes the key and BPM on it [IMG ]http://mirror.nachtagenten.de/pictures/3/2005.03.27_TribehousePowerday/DSC02055.jpg[/IMG] [IMG ]http://mirror.nachtagenten.de/pictures/3/2005.03.27_TribehousePowerday/DSC02056.jpg[/IMG]

What a cheater!

quote:

Originally posted by Kev Boy SVGmethod. Read some of your list, and saw some mistakes. Andain - Beautiful Things is Em not Am Marco V - Cafe Del Mar remix is Fm not Em ( as far as I remember, need to check to make sure) Oaky - Southern Sun NOT NOT NOT Bm!!!!!! I have talked aboutt his tune till I am blue in the face, it is G major. Listen to the chorus man! The first chord is Bm in the verse, but so what? The next chord is C, and theres an Am in there too, not in the key of Bm in a million years.

My Cafe Del Mar is the ORIGINAL. Not Marco V remix. Thanks for noting the mistakes on Andain and Southern Sun. =)

Hey SVGmethod,Kev Boy was right about Cafe del mar,the original is Fm too.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Before i must to corect my self ,i made a mistake when i wrote:they mix one semitone up from Cm to Dm sorry i did mean from C#m to Dm.

And Innercity,is 2000 and not 1999.(thnx)
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi Nemesis44 .Again ,

If i play regulay? No ,but have been playing sience 1998.

Yes,you right ,when you say :"people want to fly ,cause they took extasy and not expirement on them" ,but when you mix ,you will be expirement some how around for shure and if will you have some weird tunes(kinda other world or as you describe about jazz etc),you will play them out but only if you will find the key(not the key of harmonica,but the key of matched record)and they will bring you sucsess ,not just cause they sounds weird but cause your creativity did that.

and Finaly,
I agree with you about music theory ,it has been made with big expierience by masters like Bach ,Mozart,Haydn,Mozart(sorry ,i speak to much history etc),but then after,with maestros such as L.V.Beethoven ,C.Debussy,M.Musorgsky,I Stravinskiy and many many others ,music theory has been changed ,those composers started to break the rules more often ,they rape the muzic theory untill she fully gone from our world,but ,exists, as ,as memory for those ,who want to try it and rape it again.
Its no matter how deep you will know the music theory (original music theory ,i mean simple music theory ,contain somthing around 80 pages with no examples,with examples its 200 pages,which is no hard to learn.)you will always want more.
Anyway to mix in the key its a good idea ,but not as camelot shows,cause its very basis of thing ,and again(for everybody): try to experiment with other keys progression they sounds good to and you will not miss it if ....

I very enjoed untill now ,to discuss things with you, Nem.
My english is not so good ,but i think you understand the whole point of view.(thnx)

quote:

Originally posted by djprince Nice to see so many that are interessed in harmonic mixing. As you might know I am hosting www.djprince.no. For the last years I have been really busy with my dayjob and my family(i have 3 kids) so the quality on my site has suffered. I try to update the key and database as often I can, but unfortunately there is not enough hours in a day. I have receieved some batches of key and bpm info from many friends around the world, but the site needs more contributers. Although my site is dedicated to all types of music and it is a great source for remixers, mashup artists, producers and djs, I would like to expand my database with trance tunes. So if there are anyone here that what to contribute to my site you are most welcome. I would also like to know if anybody has any experience with tONArt key detection software? This program only supports wav files, I have been in contact with them and they dont have any plans upgrading their demo software. BUT.... Alcatech, the producers behind BPM Studio are planning to use tONArt detection technolgy in a future release of BPM Studio. Maybe Mixmeister pro is finally getting some good competion. Download tONArt Kind regards DJ Prince, Norway www.djprince.no

Hi!

Did any of you try the tONaRT key detection software? Would like to know you what you think.

PS! Why doesnt your harmonics.defined.org site work?

kind regards
djprince, norway
www.djprince.no

i didn't try the tonart program myself because it only acts on wav files, but i've actually had a discussion with the developer, as we were comparing our approaches to key detection, and his is very similar to mine.

so far i know of 3 programs that will detect keys, i think we need to have a side by side comparison of all 3, i just don't have the time:

mixmeister
rapid evolution
tonart

anybody want to run all 3 against some test songs? :-)

I have used the last two and I get very different results. I put in the same tune and got Em from Tonart and B# for Rapid Evolution. I can't find Mixmeister anywhere though

quote:

Originally posted by Rockabye It's a little bit off-topic, but I thought I show you this: these are the cdrs of Markus Schulz. You can see that he writes the key and BPM on it

This isn't off topic at all in my opinion and actually this just confirms what we believe and practice. It's those other guys out there in the forum that should see this not us really, but hey, if this makes us better DJs then it's their choice if they don't want to know.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by RonAron303 Hey SVGmethod,Kev Boy was right about Cafe del mar,the original is Fm too.

Fraid so.

Nem

uhhh... B#?! are you sure? do you mean C maybe? if you're positive then that's a bug, because it shouldn't ever say B#...

quote:

Originally posted by qualia uhhh... B#?! are you sure? do you mean C maybe? if you're positive then that's a bug, because it shouldn't ever say B#...

Qualia is right, there is no such thing as B#.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

This isn't off topic at all in my opinion and actually this just confirms what we believe and practice. It's those other guys out there in the forum that should see this not us really, but hey, if this makes us better DJs then it's their choice if they don't want to know.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well,here we go....
When i saw the photos,i decide to analyze Marcus' set .The set ,from Global DJ Broadcast DL123 (02-07-2005) and the results are:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
m-minor
M-major
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Markus Schulz's Essentials

01. John Nasty & Patrick Cole - Flavour-[Am]-

02. Kosmas Epsilon - Beyond-[CM]-(its not pure CM,a bit pithed to C#M, so , in between CM and C#M ,but more CM)

03. Soldout - Maybe Tomorrow (Nova Remix)-[Dm]-

04. Perry O'Neil - Myst-[Dm]-

05. The Flash Brothers - Mirage (The Flash Brothers Dub Mix)-[Am]-

06. Junk Science - Mood Swings-[G#m]-(oops...,looks like Marcus gone out of camelot charts)

07. Locust - Aerospace (Probspot remix)-[G#m]-

08. Varian - Endless Desire-[Gm]-(oops again)

-------------- ----------------- --------------- ------

Markus Schulz (second part)


01. Kosmas Epsilon - I Trance You-[Cm]-

02. Way Out West - Fear-[Gm]-(but again ,between Gm and G#m,more to Gm)

03. Peter Martin - Simply Blue-[Em]-(dunno what Marcus was thinking about,but looks like ,he realy hate camelot)

04. Jaytech - Music 101 (The Flash Brothers Remix)-[Gm]-(oops again)(Quastion: With who you will go?
With Marcus?
,or with Camelot?)

05. Mike Foyle pres. Statica - For Your Eyes Only-[Ebm]-(yeah,Marcus will crush the Camelot)(the Marcus's progression is wrong then Camelot's)

06. Skooma - Intervention-[Am]-(............)

07. Varian - No Way Out (Lightscape Remix)-[Gm]-(oops)

08. ID-[Bm]-

09. Hammer & Bennett - Language (Santiago Nino Dub Tech Mix)-[Cm]-

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well ,yes he use harmonical progression but in different way,not as Camelot shows us.
If he key the records ,so what hes progression will be?
The set shows: different ,looks likes its Marcus's own style(examples: when he goes from Em to Gm or from Am to Gm)and not those Camelot matematica.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IN ALL OF THIS, I TRY TO TELL ,THAT THEIR IS NOT SPECIFIC TONIK TO DOMINANTE OR TONIK TO SUBDOMINANTE OR TONIK TO TONIK OR...(AS CAMELOT SHOWS),YEA IT EXISTS BUT IN MORE COMPLEX ,THERE ARE SPECIFIC RULES TO AMAIZIN PEOPLE THAN THOSE (CAMELOT ONES).
----------------------------------------------------------------------Ill try to make my own meaning by all kind of steps(progressions)soon as i can get more free time,but here is one of my chart.

Example: when you mix from Am to Am (from root to same root)so,you will interest the listener-kinda static fealing in the mind wich will be give more understanding of melody which flow around by basis of same root ,so...
Am to Am is not less ,to draw attention of listener for specific things in the track(it could be not the melody ,but the whole thing wich you plan atmosphere ,same lead sound ,same ... etc)
thats what makes Djs good in warm up sets
----------------------------------------------------------------------I do want dig more dipper then basis of Camelot and to get more understand of that thing(harmonical mixing) and personaly i liked Marcus's set of GDB (02-07-2005) and i guess you too.

Again thanks for attention

---------------------------------------------------------------------

i couldn't help but to notice that none of the cds, in the picture posted of marcus schulz's stuff, were listed as being in a minor key. Rather interesting since minor is believed to be used much more than major.

hey everybody,

i've noticed a lot of "can you help me key this song?" questions, and this thread has been getting very large, so i've actually created a section in the mixshare.com forums for "key that tune"... basically people can create seperate threads for each song and let the community decide.

here's a link:

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 ..... It's those other guys out there in the forum that should see this not us really, but hey, if this makes us better DJs then it's their choice if they don't want to know. Cheers Nem

well said. couldn't be put better.

cheerS..

quote:

Originally posted by qualia hey everybody, i've noticed a lot of "can you help me key this song?" questions, and this thread has been getting very large, so i've actually created a section in the mixshare.com forums for "key that tune"... basically people can create seperate threads for each song and let the community decide. here's a link: [[ LINK REMOVED ]] cheers!

my god! you'r certainly doing a great a job there =]
Thnx a million buddy for all this
And i gotta admit that many people are asking other people to key tracks for them which is quite annoying sometimes (even i did that once lol).
Anyways hope that this thread gets bigger with hardly any people asking for keyed tracks.
P.S: qualia, some of the tracks in ur website database are not keyed, their names are present but they arent keyed in. One more thing, could u group all trance tracks together? (i.e prog trance,hard trance,trance under one page)
Thnx

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