TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Religious debate on Jews/Passion of the Christ
Pages (24): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 »

quote:

Originally posted by PhloTron You obvioulsly are bothered by the thought (not hell as in specific, but the religion in general) because you are so adimate about posting about it...it obvioulsly bothers you what people think about you. It's human nature to wonder what others think about you. It's just up to that person to either act on those thoughts, or attempt to counter them by passive means. The easiest thing to do would be to write it off, continue with your own beliefs and be happy about it. However, it's pretty simple here that you'd just rather argue about it and try and prove that you are in the right. And when you speak of hypocracy...maybe the first place you should look is at yourself.

Why don't you tell that to the Jehova (sp) Witnesses or the Catholics going around trying to spread the word of Christ. There is no difference between us and them. We are trying to spread the word that the bible is not historically accurate, full of contradictions, and illogical. They are trying to spread the word that the bible is perfect, God is perfect, Jesus existed, etc...

quote:

If he would allow homosexuals, why did he make Eve and not just another man.

Because God wanted to start a race and we all know two males cannot bare a child. That doesn't make homosexuals evil or that God doesn't allow them.
So who is going to post a senseless bible quote now?

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 But,God is fair. If they haven't had the chance of hearing about God,they will be judge by their heart. You aren't stumping me here you know.

So make up your mind then! Either the bible is correct and people can only go to heaven through acknowledging and accepting Jesus, or they can go there just for being good people. So which of it is correct?

I would just like to mention that the two people who keep making these circular references to the bible and Christianity are both 16 (and live south of the Mason-Dixon line too btw)

I know this will get the response of "what does 16 have to do with anything?". So I will address it now.

Answer: EVERYTHING

When one is 16 you get into this phase of "I know everything and everyone else is stoopid" (we all did). You are old enough to drive a car (in the US), you are just close enough to 17 to get into R Rated movies no problem, and you are halfway through high school and become more entrenched in the mass-personality cult that is high school. Your hormones are on overdrive and it makes you considerably more obstinate than you would normally be.

Once you get out of high school you will realize that you DIDN'T know everything. You will realize the sheer volume of things you were sheltered from by your parents, teachers, and by the insular society you were a part of.

They will ask now "Who are you to say these things?" I will tell you.

A decade ago, I was the intellectual king of my little high school world. I was more well read, got better grades, and had a much stronger personality than 99.5% of the people in the school. I had an ego the size of the Hindenburg that was continually inflated with hot air as I went along. It was not until after I had left high school that I saw how much of an idiot I was and the ego deflated to about the size of a VW microbus, still a decent size, but manageable. It was then that I realized that Socrates was right when he said "The only knowledge is in knowing that you know nothing."

The 16 year olds will continue to disagree with me because that is what they do best....but I would venture to guess that even the evil zionist-mustard clan will agree with me on many points.

Man, fallin asleep at 8 pm when you usually go to bed at 11-12 means you have weird thoughts when you wake up 2 hours earlier than usual

MrS

being 16 also sheds some light on Nellies Atheist convert friend

i changed religions more than i changed my underwear when i was 16

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel I would just like to mention that the two people who keep making these circular references to the bible and Christianity are both 16 (and live south of the Mason-Dixon line too btw) I know this will get the response of "what does 16 have to do with anything?". So I will address it now. Answer: EVERYTHING When one is 16 you get into this phase of "I know everything and everyone else is stoopid" (we all did). You are old enough to drive a car (in the US), you are just close enough to 17 to get into R Rated movies no problem, and you are halfway through high school and become more entrenched in the mass-personality cult that is high school. Your hormones are on overdrive and it makes you considerably more obstinate than you would normally be. Once you get out of high school you will realize that you DIDN'T know everything. You will realize the sheer volume of things you were sheltered from by your parents, teachers, and by the insular society you were a part of. They will ask now "Who are you to say these things?" I will tell you. A decade ago, I was the intellectual king of my little high school world. I was more well read, got better grades, and had a much stronger personality than 99.5% of the people in the school. I had an ego the size of the Hindenburg that was continually inflated with hot air as I went along. It was not until after I had left high school that I saw how much of an idiot I was and the ego deflated to about the size of a VW microbus, still a decent size, but manageable. It was then that I realized that Socrates was right when he said "The only knowledge is in knowing that you know nothing." The 16 year olds will continue to disagree with me because that is what they do best....but I would venture to guess that even the evil zionist-mustard clan will agree with me on many points. Man, fallin asleep at 8 pm when you usually go to bed at 11-12 means you have weird thoughts when you wake up 2 hours earlier than usual MrS

nice generalization, but i wasnt even thinking about my age when i started this. who else is 16 other than me??

but, what your trying to say to me is, that because i am 16, you are automatically right, and my arguements are irrelevant. do i have to be 18 so that i can argue with you??

your right on many things. u CAN say my hormones are raging, because they truelly are. and so are the girls

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz but, what your trying to say to me is, that because i am 16, you are automatically right, and my arguements are irrelevant. do i have to be 18 so that i can argue with you??

evidence put forward by the theists and atheists have already proved your argument wrong. He has given us an explanation as to why you are so tenaciously adamant in your convictions which all the evidence in the world will not sway

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz thanks for proving my point perfectly. u have no concept of the purpose of the bible, christianity, or god who made the bible. Mark 12:24 Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? u fit right in...^

I'm not sure what to make of this. I wasn't attacking you--I was making a generalization about general reading comprehension. You don't have to be Christian to understand the Bible, you simply have to be literate. How one interprets the Bible will obviously depend on their upbringing and cultural beliefs. I can't tell if you're trying to call me an idiot or if you're making a generalization in turn.

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz thanks for proving my point perfectly. u have no concept of the purpose of the bible, christianity, or god who made the bible. Mark 12:24 Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? u fit right in...^

Really now, did you have a little smirk on your face when you wrote this? What does God say about judging others here on earth? Should you not leave that up to God? I hope you ask for forgiveness tonight for playing God and judging others in such a manner, esp. when it is as completely baseless and inaccurate as one can be.

Really now, that's not very Christian of you.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel I would just like to mention that the two people who keep making these circular references to the bible and Christianity are both 16 (and live south of the Mason-Dixon line too btw) I know this will get the response of "what does 16 have to do with anything?". So I will address it now. Answer: EVERYTHING When one is 16 you get into this phase of "I know everything and everyone else is stoopid" (we all did). You are old enough to drive a car (in the US), you are just close enough to 17 to get into R Rated movies no problem, and you are halfway through high school and become more entrenched in the mass-personality cult that is high school. Your hormones are on overdrive and it makes you considerably more obstinate than you would normally be. Once you get out of high school you will realize that you DIDN'T know everything. You will realize the sheer volume of things you were sheltered from by your parents, teachers, and by the insular society you were a part of. They will ask now "Who are you to say these things?" I will tell you. A decade ago, I was the intellectual king of my little high school world. I was more well read, got better grades, and had a much stronger personality than 99.5% of the people in the school. I had an ego the size of the Hindenburg that was continually inflated with hot air as I went along. It was not until after I had left high school that I saw how much of an idiot I was and the ego deflated to about the size of a VW microbus, still a decent size, but manageable. It was then that I realized that Socrates was right when he said "The only knowledge is in knowing that you know nothing." The 16 year olds will continue to disagree with me because that is what they do best....but I would venture to guess that even the evil zionist-mustard clan will agree with me on many points. Man, fallin asleep at 8 pm when you usually go to bed at 11-12 means you have weird thoughts when you wake up 2 hours earlier than usual MrS

LMAO this post brought back some memories! I thought I was teh l337 when I was 16!

The Movie is Cursed just like the Frozen Yogurt

I made a post about this in the chill out room with links, but basically the follow has happened with the passion of christ:

1. Two people were struck by lighting during filming, one of them jesus Caviezel himself.

2. Some lady died of a heart attack while watching the movie

3. A computer in a theatre somewhere in the US kept printing 666 on the tickets

4. The composer of the movie kept seeing satan in his computer screen

I cant wait to see what happens next...

How can some of those jesus freaks not believe in the signs, but believe in Mel Gibson - son of a holocaust denier.

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz im the thread started, and ive just gotten home, around 7pm. last time i was on, yesterday, there was some 20 pages. now its like 26. i cant keep up. what i do is just look at the last page, and start from there. but anyways. there are no contradictions in the bible. u just dont understand any of the logic. the bible is a book written FOR christians, BY christians, and understood ONLY by christians. it isnt just some book. all its views, stories, and content are geared toward the christian reading it. those with the holy spirit. u will never understand biblical content if u dont have the holy spirit, because that is the gift god gives you, that OPENS your eyes. again i tell you, u will never understand the bible because it not the book because the content is not for those without the holy spirit. and as i tell you this, i know, u will laugh at the words im saying, try to refute what im saying, or not believe what im saying. all this just proves my point. u do not understand the bible, unless u are reading it from the perspective it was meant for. the bible's content does not say the things it says to anybody and everybody. it is for only those who have the perspective the bible was meant for. those with the holy spirit. lastly, i say again, u won understand what i say, or what the bible says, because it is not from your perspective. but again and again, i will use the bible as my source, because i believe it to be the most credible source there is. even though, u dont understand the logic, perspective of the words i qoute out of it.

IOW, even though the Bible has a great many contradictions in both the historical and logical context, you have to be in the Christian-club in order to ignore these inconsistencies and just believe what you want regardless?

So what should I choose: live in a rational, logical world where we can understand that the earth is indeed, not flat and not the center of the universe, that witches do not cause the plague, that bacteria does not spontaneously create itself, that there are cures for many many diseases because we can understand bacterial resistance, that Jews do not need to be converted lest they be murdered, etc. etc. etc.

-or-

Jump into the fundamentalist Christian bubble world where nothing outside what's stated word for word in the Bible makes sense?


Hmmm, that's a tough one.

Re: The Movie is Cursed just like the Frozen Yogurt

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo How can some of those jesus freaks not believe in the signs, but believe in Mel Gibson - son of a holocaust denier.

Why is it necessary for Jews on this forum to repeatedly bring up Mels father in all this???

Yeah, he's an ill thought out man, but who gives a fuck?

Re: Re: The Movie is Cursed just like the Frozen Yogurt

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Why is it necessary for Jews on this forum to repeatedly bring up Mels father in all this??? Yeah, he's an ill thought out man, but who gives a fuck?

I think it might say something about Mel's upbringing and rationale, which may or may not be evident in his movie.

Since I haven't seen the movie yet, however, I'm reserving comment for now.

Re: Re: The Movie is Cursed just like the Frozen Yogurt

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Why is it necessary for Jews on this forum to repeatedly bring up Mels father in all this??? Yeah, he's an ill thought out man, but who gives a fuck?

For the same reason the ideology of Ahnold's father was brought up during the California recall elections. It's a contentious talking point, but not much else. I pretty much agree with you.

Kind of like that saying "We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us."

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz there is no excuse for not knowing god. automatically, if your reading my words, u have no excuse for not knowing god.

----------------------

Heinz, with all due respect, this is utter bullshit. Just because Jesus' may or may not have been around and crucified does not entail that everyone across the world KNEW of his life immediately after his death. How on earth would you suppose that would occur, save a few billion fax machines and/or cell phones? How were the Native American Indians supposed to have known about Jesus immediately after his death?

Many cultures to this day still know nothing of Jesus and/or Christianity - that is a fact. Shall God be condemning these innocent individuals because they have never known of His Son?

quote:

there is within us, an instinct of god. that gives us our concept of "right" and "wrong". morality.

You bring up a second non-related point here the origin of morality, and again with all due respect, your statement is complete utter bullshit. And as I have posed to Nessa, if this is true, then there should be nothing but atheists occupying our jails across the world.

But what's more, this assertion is absolutely baseless. Here's a hypothetical scenario, and I'm sure you'll probably get lost, but let me post it anyway:

If God decided it was moral to rape and pillage at will, would it then be considered OK by His followers to rape and pilliage?

If you say that God wouldn't consider raping and pilliaging moral, then God is bound by moral rules rather than being the source of morality.

So, morality, being a human invention, can and does exist without belief in any dieties, let alone your particular god. Morality is a social convention that developed to make living in groups more pleasant.

Here's another question: the Christian god is supposedly the standard of morality (since He is perfect), however it is shown that He can do whatever he wants, even if by our own moral code it appears He is acting immoralIn fact the bible has many accounts showcasing his endorsed atrocities, some of which has already been pointed out. Why did God set a standard of morality from which He Himself feels it unnecessary to follow?

And lastly, there are sociological studies on the benefits of cooperation amongst individuals in a society, above all else a set of established rules of conduct tend to develop which benefit the group as a whole.

Can you give clear examples that, in fact, morality is absolute?

quote:

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities�his eternal power and divine nature�have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse ----------------------

IOW, God's existence and nature can be found with reason alone?

But God rhetorically asks Job:

"Can you discover the essence of God? Can you find out the perfection of the Almighty?" (Job 11:7)

So which is it? Can we find out the essence of God or can't we?

quote:

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. This is what used to be permisible. not knowing god. now that jesus has come to this earth, now there is no excuse for not knowing god. now, there is NO excuse for sin. none at all.

Tell that to the Aboriginees who knew nothing of Jesus before, during, and many years after his death (until the English came in and did quite a number on them). I sure hope God went pretty easy on these poor innocent souls not knowing who Jesus ever was.

---------------------

quote:

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. many of u dont believe because u have never "seen" god. but jesus did, and he came to this earth, so therefore we HAVE seen god. because jesus was god on earth. so that "not seeing god" is no longer valid.

No one ever "saw" God? Then what's all this hubub?:

Genesis 12:7
"And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him."
Genesis 17:1
"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him...."
Genesis 18:1
"And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre."
Genesis 26:2
"And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of.
Genesis26:24
"And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not."
Genesis 32:30
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Genesis 35:1
"And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother."
Genesis 35:7
"And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother."
Genesis 35:9
"And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him."
Genesis 48:3
"And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan."
Exodus 3:16
"The LORD God ... appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you."
Exodus 4:5
"That they may believe that the LORD God ... hath appeared unto thee."
Exodus 6:3
"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob...."
Exodus 24:9-11
"Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink."
Exodus 33:11
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."
Exodus 33:23
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts."
Numbers 14:14
"For they have heard that thou Lord art among this people, that thou Lord art seen face to face."
Deuteronomy 5:4
"The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire."
Deuteronomy 34:10
"And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face."
Judges 13:22
"And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God."
1 Kings 22:19
"I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left."
Job 42:5
"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."
Psalms 63.2
"To see thy power and they glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary."
Isaiah 6:1
"In the year that King Ussiah died, I saw, also, the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up."
Isaiah 6:5
"For mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."
Ezekiel 20:35
"And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face."
Amos 7:7
"The LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand."
Amis 9:1
"I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake."
Habakkuk 3:3-5
"God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran .... He had horns coming out of his hand."

Heinz, even the catholic church doesn't agree with your views!

Re: Re: The Movie is Cursed just like the Frozen Yogurt

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Why is it necessary for Jews on this forum to repeatedly bring up Mels father in all this??? Yeah, he's an ill thought out man, but who gives a fuck?

Cyrus - thats stupid man. Someone so strong in his convictions, 99% of the time, is raised by someone strong in their convictions.

Mel Gibson would love nothing more than to deny/hate jews, he just knows his position in society and that is simply cannot be done. If he really did not believe it, he would have denied his father's comments instead he chose the "i have no comment on this". For shit sakes, the guy even said his wife is going to hell bceause she is a protestant.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 No one ever "saw" God? Then what's all this hubub?: Genesis 12:7 "And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him." Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him...." Genesis 18:1 "And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre." Genesis 26:2 "And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of. Genesis26:24 "And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not." Genesis 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." Genesis 35:1 "And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother." Genesis 35:7 "And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother." Genesis 35:9 "And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him." Genesis 48:3 "And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan." Exodus 3:16 "The LORD God ... appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you." Exodus 4:5 "That they may believe that the LORD God ... hath appeared unto thee." Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob...." Exodus 24:9-11 "Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink." Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." Numbers 14:14 "For they have heard that thou Lord art among this people, that thou Lord art seen face to face." Deuteronomy 5:4 "The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire." Deuteronomy 34:10 "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face." Judges 13:22 "And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God." 1 Kings 22:19 "I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left." Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." Psalms 63.2 "To see thy power and they glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary." Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that King Ussiah died, I saw, also, the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up." Isaiah 6:5 "For mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts." Ezekiel 20:35 "And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face." Amos 7:7 "The LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand." Amis 9:1 "I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake." Habakkuk 3:3-5 "God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran .... He had horns coming out of his hand."

I didn't understand any of that. Hold on, let me put on my holy spirit .... nope still don't get it. I think my holy spirit is an old perscription and it needs to be upgraded at the godtomotrist. Can anyone who speaks fluent bible translate this for me? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Frode Heinz, even the catholic church doesn't agree with your views!

Yes, but as you well know, many o' fundamentalist Christians think very lowly of the Catholic Church in general.

On the flip side, their historical dissenter, Martin Luther, had some interesting things to say about the Jews in his time:

"For, as all can see, God's wrath over them is so great that gentle mercy will only make them worse and worse, and harshness little better. So away with them at all costs."

His solution to the "Jewish Question":

"Away with them at all costs"

quote:

Originally posted by cammie wow i didnt know you had so much bible knowledge, occ....you're fantastic. i was lucky that i was able to memorize my cathecism!

[sheepish]Ummmm yessss well you know me .... once I pick up the bible I can't put that sucker down.[/sheepish]

Just between you and me ... and everyone else who reads this thread:

I haven't read the bible since sunday school in 5th grade

I just have a knack for finding the info I need

quote:

We aren't about turn or burn.

This is incorrect-

How can you not be about that which is inherent in your �message� to non-Christians?

quote:

Good,glad to hear you don't. Oh heck no, I don't like Jehovah's witness.They try to tell me that by not attending their church I'm making a mistake. But, It would be a mistake attending their church in my opinion.

Well I knew we would at least agree on something�

quote:

Actually,teeth grinding tounge gnawing pain. That's in Revelation I do believe. But, the reason we mention hell sometimes is because people do need to know it's real. It's imporant. If telling a person about hell will save their soul, then I say go for it. But, I don't think anyone should go up to a non believer and say " Hey if you don't accept Christ right now, You're gonna burn in hell for eternity. By the way did I tell you about God's love? " Totally the wrong way to approach it, very insensitive,and talk about a real turn off.

The approach is irrelevant to the actual message and belief, which is what you and any fundie Christian are attempting to convey to a nonbeliever. You can turn the statement around any way you like, but you still have to drop the �do this or burn in hell for all eternity� threat in your message one way or another.

Therefore, the threat is still made, which fits Pascal�s Wager. You still have yet to respond to that.

quote:

I still don't think it matches up.

How so? Logically it matches up quite well.

quote:

Yeah, it can if you take it with other drugs or something. But, she was hooked. :/ (Infact I think almost anything can become an addiction.)

Off topic. n/r

quote:

Well,again there is a difference in believing in God,and being saved by God. Satan believes in God,he knows he's real. And, there are a lot of false proclaimers out there. A lot of the time,you can tell what kind of person they are by their actions. ( atleast this has been my experience. ) but, only God can really tell what's going on in their hearts.

Yes, again I am aware of God knowing their hearts, and that there are many false proclaiming Christians out there. Yet the hypothetical (and likely real) premise remains with the same troubling conclusions � if there are those who do great evil in the world, albeit by addiction or otherwise, they will still be able to get to heaven, provided that they are forgiven of their sins AND believe in Christ. In contrast, a Buddhist monk who may or may not know anything about Jesus, but does amazing humanitarian works in his life, will not see heaven � God will punish his soul for all eternity by sending him to hell.

This is an inescapable result of Christian belief.

[/QUOTE]Yes,that's true. They have reached several of places. But, ever heard of word of mouth? It's kind of like a chain reaction..someone hears about God,they tell another person..? I know a lot of that has happened too.[/QUOTE]

This is a very big reach here. Word of mouth? Did word of mouth tell everyone about Christ around the world immediately after his death? Does word of mouth reach the very old cultures in the deep forests of Africa to this day?

The answer is unavoidable � no.

But let�s say hypothetically that the �word of mouth� has reached every corner of the earth. Do you expect everyone to abandon their beliefs, some thousands of years older than the Christian beliefs (and some from which Christianity stole certain ideals from in the first place), simply because someone from a village a few hundred miles away mentioned something about a Jew named Jesus Christ dying on the cross for everyone�s sins? Should they immediately take but one person�s word for it, and abandon all their centuries old beliefs and traditions, simply because a missionary or two mention something about a guy named Jesus in a village on the other side of the river?

Let me ask you something � if I came to a house in your town 10 miles away from you, and I told that family that the Great Cookie Monster from the Planet Zoinks is the true, righteous God, and that they should believe in Him now because he�s loving and peaceful (and you�ll burn in Hell if you don�t turn to Him now), should I as a follower expect that person down the road to tell you by �word of mouth� and everyone else in the town, and expect you to believe it with all your heart (assuming most in your town has steadfast Christian beliefs)?

Furthermore, should my God, the Great Cookie Monster, expect that you should be immediately and unquestionably believing what your neighbor mentioned about His follower (me) and the �Good News� he brings, lest you all burn in Hell for all eternity?

Would that be very fair of my God, the Great Cookie Monster, to give that burden to all of you, simply from a hopeful spreading of �word of mouth� amongst everyone in your town? I hardly think so. I wouldn�t think it would be the town�s fault for not spreading the �word of mouth� along very well. Besides, you know what they say about �word of mouth� stories?

(they have a tendency to change from the start of the line to the end. Come to think of it � perhaps this is the very reason why we have different sects within Christianity � different interpretations via �word of mouth�?)

quote:

But,no I'm not going against what the Bible said/says. I'll have to think of a better way to word the answer, so give me some time.I might be able to get back to you tonight.

Looking forward to it.

quote:

Not sure how I'm going to explain this one...:/ I know the answer,but I'm not sure how I'm going to word it.

John was smoking a big spleef laced with some serious �shroom tea whilst writing this book? Or perhaps he was simply certifiable.
(that�s how I word it).

quote:

No contradiction. Read carefully,heck if you want I can lend you my reading glasses.

Your wit needs some work, as does your logic. Let�s examine once again what you said:

quote:

Once you make it right with God, you don't do those things. You have no desire to.

and then you say:

quote:

We all commit sin, we're all humans and we all make mistakes.Christians,atheists,Muslims,Jewish..etc etc etc

So again, looking logically at the two sentences themselves, I ask how can you NOT DO those things once you make it right with God and no desire to, but yet you still DO commit sin regardless of your religious affiliation? The two sentences say two completely conflicting ideas.

quote:

Christians are always trying to become a better person,more like Christ.(thus the word Christian) We all still sin,and we all live in a sinful world. Ok? Got that so far? Ok good,onto the next part. We don't want to sin,but we do. But, we ask for forgiveness,and learn from those mistakes,and those sins and try not to repeat the same mistake.

Yes, and you believe you are answering my question. I am NOT referring to this idea at all. I know very well that Christians sin and commit evil like everyone else. But this is NOT what I am getting at � your two sentences are conflicting with one another � one says that you �don�t do those things� when you make it right with God, the other says that you CAN do those things (because everyone sins, including Christians).

There is no further explanation needed from you on this. My whole entire point is to watch what you say when you make bold assertions like this:

quote:

Once you make it right with God, you don't do those things. You have no desire to.

which is completely against known behaviors and logic. So the suggestion is simple: avoid making false statements like the one above, and we�ll all be better off.

quote:

Of course I watch what I say.But, i'm not tying my words against myself.

Nessa, please read what I said. It wasn�t you whom was tying up your words, it was me tying up your words to prove a point, one that was seemingly missed.

http://users.sedona.net/~becky/cricket1.wav

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel I would just like to mention that the two people who keep making these circular references to the bible and Christianity are both 16 (and live south of the Mason-Dixon line too btw) I know this will get the response of "what does 16 have to do with anything?". So I will address it now. Answer: EVERYTHING When one is 16 you get into this phase of "I know everything and everyone else is stoopid" (we all did). You are old enough to drive a car (in the US), you are just close enough to 17 to get into R Rated movies no problem, and you are halfway through high school and become more entrenched in the mass-personality cult that is high school. Your hormones are on overdrive and it makes you considerably more obstinate than you would normally be.

This is actually quite interesting. I'm (newly ) 17, yet I'm a hardcore atheist who can't stand most religious dogma. I take great pride in pointing out the circular reasoning that Heinz and Nelly seem to enjoy using ad nauseam. I also can't stand the 'personality cult' stuff that admittedly does dominate high school, and I'm well aware of the fact that i don't know anything. In fact, I'm eager to put any beliefs that I do hold up for scrutiny, and to examine anything that I may have been mistaken about.

How do you explain us having such opposite views & outlooks on life?

Come to think of it, there is one more thing I'd like to add. Nelly, for the love of god, go to the following site. It contains basic explanations of the logical fallacies which you love to utilize again & again.

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

If you never read any other link that people provide to you to back up their arguments, read this. Understand that you can't use a fallacious argument to support/back up your premise, even if that premise (and indeed your conclusion) happens to be valid.

quote:

Originally posted by arctic This is actually quite interesting. I'm (newly ) 17, yet I'm a hardcore atheist who can't stand most religious dogma. I take great pride in pointing out the circular reasoning that Heinz and Nelly seem to enjoy using ad nauseam. I also can't stand the 'personality cult' stuff that admittedly does dominate high school, and I'm well aware of the fact that i don't know anything. In fact, I'm eager to put any beliefs that I do hold up for scrutiny, and to examine anything that I may have been mistaken about. How do you explain us having such opposite views & outlooks on life? Come to think of it, there is one more thing I'd like to add. Nelly, for the love of god, go to the following site. It contains basic explanations of the logical fallacies which you love to utilize again & again. http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm If you never read any other link that people provide to you to back up their arguments, read this. Understand that you can't use a fallacious argument to support/back up your premise, even if that premise (and indeed your conclusion) happens to be valid.

I explain it as you are a 16 year old "know it all"...just one who happens to have a different outlook.

I almost mentioned it in the previous post but could not fit it in well hehe.



MrS

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel I explain it as you are a 16 year old "know it all"...just one who happens to have a different outlook. I almost mentioned it in the previous post but could not fit it in well hehe. MrS

Well, if I was actually 16, I suppose I'd have to agree with you.

In all seriousness though, sometimes age doesn't have anything to do with it. You get idiot know it alls of all ages, just head over to rr-bb.com or christianforums.com, and watch the adult know it alls in all their glory.

I think that life experiences probably have something to do with it, and since everyone's life experiences vary, age may not be the key factor in determining the level of someone's, uh, know it all, err, ness. I honestly don't think I know everything, i know it's hard to believe, but i' perfectly willing to admit that my knowledge & experience in many areas is severely lacking. I've got no qualms with simply saying 'I don't know' if someone manages to back me into a corner, and I'm perfectly willing to discard a belief if someone can show me that it's illogical/irrational/not supported by evidence and so on.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.