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- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- TOTA Mobile/Wireless/Celluar/VOIP Thread
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Originally posted by ShadoWolf http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...ory/Technology/ CRTC expected to rein in big phone companies on VoIP service By SIMON TUCK Friday, May 6, 2005 Updated at 8:46 AM EDT Globe and Mail Update OTTAWA � The budding Internet-based telephone business is widely expected to be regulated the same way as traditional phone services under a CRTC ruling next week that analysts say will strike a blow to the dominant phone companies. A senior source in the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission confirmed that it has rejected arguments from Bell Canada and Telus Corp. that voice over Internet protocol (VoIP) should be left unregulated like other on-line applications. If their argument had won the day, their competitors say, the incumbent phone companies would have been allowed to limit the number of new entrants by slashing prices in the short term. Instead, the CRTC's ruling would mean that the large telcos would have to get CRTC approval for their prices, thereby further opening the door for startups, such as Primus Telecommunications Canada Inc. and Vonage Holdings Corp., and cable companies, such as Rogers Communications Inc., Shaw Communications Inc. and Vid�otron Lt�e. to pursue the lucrative residential phone market. VoIP is a technology that allows for telephone service over the Internet and the CRTC's much-anticipated ruling is expected to be a key in determining which industry -- and which companies -- gain the early edge in the nascent niche. Analysts say the battle for the VoIP market is a flashpoint in a larger, high-stakes war between two converging sectors: cable and telephone. Technology is overhauling telecommunications as the two sectors increasingly roll out similar products. The central debate over the regulation of VoIP is whether it is a phone or Internet product. The phone companies told the CRTC last fall during VoIP hearings that more competition and less regulation would be good for consumers and the industry. Even though local phone markets were opened up for competition seven years ago, the large incumbents still control about 97 per cent of the market. Many of the telcos' rivals, however, warned the CRTC that the regulator had to ensure that the incumbents weren't allowed to use VoIP as a "loss leader" that would deter competition through artificially low prices. The cable companies, some of which are making hefty investments in the lucrative phone services industry, say rapid deregulation would allow the telcos to take over the emerging VoIP market before others are given a fair chance. UBS Securities Canada Inc., which is among the many brokerages expecting a win for the cable companies, said the ruling expected on Thursday will accelerate the cable industry's moves toward bundling services. The VoIP market, meanwhile, will jeopardize between 15 and 20 per cent of the incumbent phone companies' revenue and between 30 and 35 per cent of their pretax earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, analyst Jeffrey Fan said. Janet Yale, executive vice-president of government and regulatory affairs at Telus, called VoIP a "paradigm shift" because it opens up the phone business to the cable guys. "From our perspective, the entry of cable changes everything." Lawson Hunter, executive vice-president of regulatory affairs for Montreal-based BCE Inc., which owns Bell Canada, wouldn't comment on the potential impact to Bell, but said that it wouldn't be fair if the CRTC were to regulate only the phone incumbents in the VoIP market. About 18 other countries have issued VoIP rulings and only Singapore has decided to regulate pricing, Mr. Hunter said. It is estimated about 25,000 Canadians use VoIP services, but Iain Grant, managing director of SeaBoard Group, a telecom consulting firm in Montreal, said he expects the market to grow by about tenfold by the end of this calendar year. Canada's local telephone market is worth about $10-billion a year. Mr. Grant also said VoIP will open up the telephone services market to greater competition. "Ten years ago, you needed a trillion dollars to get into this business -- now you need $20,000." The CRTC's ruling, which is expected to be in line with its preliminary ruling on VoIP last year, is not expected to end the battle over the issue. Analysts said the telcos would likely appeal to the federal cabinet and VoIP could also be part of Industry Minister David Emerson's coming telecom review.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew hmm, what im i missing here, how can regulating a market like voip where you in theory have a place for perfect competition, be good for competition?

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...bd-4ee2263dca5f

Ottawa pulls plug on VoIP regulation

Cheaper service likely; All providers now able to set their own prices

Peter Nowak
Financial Post

Thursday, November 16, 2006

The government has made its first move to deregulate phone services by removing some of the rules governing Internet-based calling providers, a decision that further marginalizes the CRTC.

Minister of Industry Maxime Bernier announced at an Economic Club of Toronto luncheon yesterday that Voice over Internet Protocol services -- landline phones offered over a broadband connection -- would no longer be regulated.

"Barriers to entry in this market are low; there is no reason to regulate it," he said. "In a competitive sector, there is no reason to regulate some companies while others can offer the services they want at the prices they want."

Under previous restrictions, incumbent phone carriers such as Bell Canada Enterprises Inc. were limited to how low they could price their own VoIP services to compete with specialized providers such as Vonage Canada Inc. With the deregulation, all VoIP providers will be able to price their services as they see fit.

A spokesman for the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission said the deregulation will take effect immediately, and the regulator will issue a circular today to address how it will be implemented.

Some incumbents, including Bell and SaskTel, offer VoIP services but don't actively promote them. Industry observers expect that to change as VoIP is much cheaper for them to provide. The result could be cheaper phone services for consumers and less cost to the phone companies, although they will end up competing with their own traditional offerings.

"It's a good news, bad news thing for them," said Greg O'Brien, author of industry newsletter CARTT and an expert on telecommunications regulation. "They'll be able to market freely like the cable companies do, but at the same time they'll end up undercutting their own traditional wireline service."

The government's decision did sow some confusion yesterday, however, by specifying that only "access-independent" VoIP services would be deregulated. Some industry players were not sure what that definition would cover.

"There are definitional issues about what access-dependent services are, when they're VoIP and when they're telephony," said Lawson Hunter, executive vice-president and chief corporate officer of Bell Canada.

Joe Parent, vice-president of marketing and business development for Vonage Canada, said it was too early to tell how the move would affect the phone market.

"While deregulation does open up greater competition, it also opens up the possibility of abuse of market power."

Mr. Bernier said the decision did not affect traditional phone services, but he made clear the government was looking to deregulate that market as well. "It's a small step, but it's a step," he said.

The government's overturning of a decision by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission is a rarity. The CRTC last year decided VoIP should be regulated like a regular phone service, but the government in May asked it to reconsider. The commission stuck to its guns in September and announced its decision stood.

Mr. Bernier said the Conservatives would stick to the key finding of the Liberal government-initiated Telecommunications Policy Review Panel, which was issued in March. The review urged that rather than assuming all telecommunications services should start out regulated, they should only be governed when the need arises. As such, the panel said, the CRTC should have a more reactive role, rather than proactive.

"We want it to regulate only when necessary," Mr. Bernier said. "And when regulation is necessary, we want to ensure that it interferes in the least way possible with market forces."

Some industry observers said the reversal of the CRTC decision does not bode well for the future of the regulator. "The CRTC has one knee down ... they might be gone within three years," said John Ruffolo, national leader for Deloitte's technology, media and telecommunications practice.

[email protected]
� National Post 2006

Canada's New Government Proposes to Accelerate Deregulation of Local Telephone Service in the Interests of Canadian Consumers

OTTAWA, ONTARIO--(CCNMatthews - Dec. 11, 2006) - The Honourable Maxime Bernier, Minister of Industry, today announced a government proposal to change a decision by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) that would put in place a revised framework to determine when to deregulate retail telephone prices of the former monopoly telephone companies.

"Canada's new government has an ambitious policy agenda for the telecommunications sector, the essence of which is a new regulatory framework that is more modern, flexible and efficient," said Minister Bernier. "The government's proposal is intended to stimulate competition and innovation among local telephone service providers so that Canadian consumers and businesses will benefit from even more choice, improved products and services, and lower prices."

In June of this year, Minister Bernier tabled a proposed policy direction to the CRTC, signalling the government's intention to direct the CRTC to rely on market forces to the maximum extent feasible under the Telecommunications Act and regulate only when necessary.

Earlier this year, the CRTC issued Telecom Decision CRTC 2006-15 (Forbearance from the regulation of retail local exchange services), which laid out a framework for price deregulation of local telephone service provided by traditional telephone companies. Minister Bernier consulted and reviewed this decision, and will now propose to replace the CRTC's market-share test with one that emphasizes the presence of competitive infrastructure in a given geographical area.

The proposed variance is linked to proposed amendments to the Competition Act that would establish financial penalties to deter anti-competitive behaviour in deregulated telecommunications markets, which were introduced by the Minister in Parliament on December 7, 2006.

"This initiative reflects our agreement with the advice we've received from the Telecom Policy Review Panel to rely on market forces to the maximum extent feasible," said Minister Bernier. "This is another step towards our goal of reshaping telecommunications policy so that it supports an internationally competitive and robust telecommunications industry here in Canada."

Backgrounder

Government's proposed changes to the CRTC's local forbearance decision

Competition is essential for a vibrant, healthy telecommunications sector. The importance of competition in a telecommunications policy framework was underscored in the recommendations of the Telecommunications Policy Review Panel (TPRP) when it released its final report in March 2006. The Panel recommended Canada modernize its telecommunications policy framework to allow market forces and competition to guide the growth of the industry.

The proposed policy direction to the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC), tabled by the Industry Minister in June 2006, followed the advice of the TPRP, directing the CRTC to take a more market-based approach to implementing the Telecommunications Act and regulating only when necessary.

In Telecom Decision CRTC 2006-15 (Forbearance from the regulation of retail local exchange services), the CRTC laid out its criteria for determining when it would forbear, or refrain, from regulating local telephone service provided by the former monopoly telephone companies. It determined forbearance would occur only after the former monopoly telephone company had lost 25 percent market share in a defined geographic area, provided access to certain services to competitors, filed rates for certain competitor services and met 14 quality of service standards for services provided to competitors. The CRTC also maintained regulations on marketing until the former monopoly telephone company had lost 20 percent market share in a defined geographic area.

In response to this decision, the Governor in Council received a joint petition from Aliant, Bell, SaskTel and TELUS as well as separate petitions from the Government of Saskatchewan and the Coalition for Competitive Telecommunications. These appeals argued that sufficient competition already existed in the market and deregulation should proceed more rapidly.

The government is proposing to change the CRTC decision to accelerate deregulation of retail telephone prices of the traditional telephone companies and has introduced amendments to the Competition Act to deter anti-competitive behaviour, thus benefiting consumers. On December 16, 2006, the proposal to change the CRTC decision will be in the Canada Gazette for a 30-day public comment period: canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/index-e.html.

The government is proposing to replace the CRTC's market share test with one that emphasizes the presence of competitive infrastructure. Infrastructure-based tests identify the presence of more than one facilities-based network in a given geographical area. Competitive infrastructure is a durable form of competition that disciplines the market and strengthens investment, while delivering the greatest benefits to consumers.

The proposal also suggests using smaller, more appropriate geographic areas, streamlining deregulation conditions that require the former monopoly telephone companies to meet standards for services they provide to competitors, and proposes to end the marketing restrictions.

The proposal would maintain existing safeguards that protect consumers such as a price ceiling for stand-alone residential service and continued price regulation in regions where there is little competition. As well, the government has introduced in Parliament proposed amendments to the Competition Act to establish financial penalties to deter anti-competitive behaviour in deregulated telecommunications markets.

Consumers will benefit from more choices and improved products and services. For the telecommunications industry, innovation will be encouraged as a result of more intense competition between traditional telephone companies and their competitors. The proposal reduces unnecessary regulation as well as increases reliance on market forces and encourages competition in telecommunications.

Questions about switching Cell Providers...


Can I switch my Bell current Cell # (W/ Bell) to another provider yet, such as Rogers or Telus??

I know you that you will be able to, and I thought it was sometime in May 2007..but someone was telling me you could already do this..

quote:

Originally posted by exstasie Questions about switching Cell Providers... Can I switch my Bell current Cell # (W/ Bell) to another provider yet, such as Rogers or Telus?? I know you that you will be able to, and I thought it was sometime in May 2007..but someone was telling me you could already do this..

march 14th 2007 WNP comes into effect, and no you dont have to cancel with your existing provider,just call your new provider.

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Originally posted by MLB march 14th 2007 WNP comes into effect, and no you dont have to cancel with your existing provider,just call your new provider.

But I do have to cancel my contract w/ Bell though (my current provider) and pay a cancellation fee? Or is that waived as a result of the CRTC competition agreement that was made???

Cause i'm on contact w/ Bell for 2-3 more years lol

quote:

Originally posted by exstasie But I do have to cancel my contract w/ Bell though (my current provider) and pay a cancellation fee? Or is that waived as a result of the CRTC competition agreement that was made??? Cause i'm on contact w/ Bell for 2-3 more years lol

If you decided to switch over, and if ur on a contract currently , the contract fees are not assigned by crtc, they are by bell, so they would send u a final bill including termination charges, whatever you signed for in the contract at the same time.

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Originally posted by MLB If you decided to switch over, and if ur on a contract currently , the contract fees are not assigned by crtc, they are by bell, so they would send u a final bill including termination charges, whatever you signed for in the contract at the same time.

makes sense! I'm fine w/ the termination charges! Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by exstasie makes sense! I'm fine w/ the termination charges! Thanks.

come over to telus

Blackberry 8800! Yikes! Now that is a nice device.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Blackberry 8800! Yikes! Now that is a nice device.

does that one have the GPS systems as well?

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Originally posted by exstasie does that one have the GPS systems as well?

Oh yes! It sure does!

http://www.blackberry8800.com/

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker Blackberry 8800! Yikes! Now that is a nice device.

Yeah, it's a very worthy successor to the 8700. I love how it's strictly a business device, and everything non-business has been trimmed off (like camera, 3G, etc). It's thin as hell, and very nice to hold. For those complaining that it doesn't have a camera and other entertainment goodies we're used to on cellphones, RIM will be coming out with a new one that will pretty much be the successor to the Pearl, except with a full QWERTY keyboard. I don't think I can say much more, just wait and the news will be announced (although info will probably be leaked long before then )

BTW, while we're on the topic, since Guv recently claimed my second cellphone, it looks like I need to buy a new one. I'm kind of tired of candybars, and I hate flip-phones, so it looks like my next phone will be a slider. Can anyone recommend a good one? My budget for it is roughly $400. I don't really care much about mp3 players, cameras, etc - I just want it to have good reception, be small, have a good UI, and a good texting program (i.e. like T9 for SEs)

Some of you may know... there are frequencies that can be heard by teens and young adults that late 20ers and up can not hear.

A story that made the news last fall if I can remember....
A convenience store played a shreaking loop through a loudspeaker that kept teenagers away, and the sound was unheard by adults.

Now what cought my attention, was a TV show who had a cellphone ring with a ringtone that no one over 30 could hear. Allegedly it's used by teens in class, oblivious to the teacher.

Anyone have this ringtone, what's it called, or even have the MP3? (or even websites that play these tones, so I can rip them to my phone)

Thanks,
AJ

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie Some of you may know... there are frequencies that can be heard by teens and young adults that late 20ers and up can not hear. A story that made the news last fall if I can remember.... A convenience store played a shreaking loop through a loudspeaker that kept teenagers away, and the sound was unheard by adults. Now what cought my attention, was a TV show who had a cellphone ring with a ringtone that no one over 30 could hear. Allegedly it's used by teens in class, oblivious to the teacher. Anyone have this ringtone, what's it called, or even have the MP3? (or even websites that play these tones, so I can rip them to my phone) Thanks, AJ

AJ I could dig it up, but it would take a considerable amount of time. what will I get in return?

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur AJ I could dig it up, but it would take a considerable amount of time. what will I get in return?

He will sex0r you!

8 more days!

http://www.wirelessnumberportability.ca/

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 I haven't, no - which is why I'm asking. I was previously with Bell, a CDMA network, so this is my first real foray into the world of GSM.

I'm in the same boat, I want clear reception as well and hope I get it via Rogers/Fido when I switch come the 14th.

I'm going to be switching over to rogers...

which phones do they offer that are worthy of getting?

I'll just buy one of their phones on contract right now and upgrade in like a year or two on a better phone (like iPhone or something).

HAPPY WNP Day Everybody!!

IT's Finally HERE!

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Originally posted by exstasie HAPPY WNP Day Everybody!! IT's Finally HERE!

Is it effective immediately?

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Is it effective immediately?

I think so. We don't do anything ourselves.

If we want to change providers, we just call the new provider, give them our account info for are old provider, and they'll switch it over for you (i'm sure there'll be a small fee or something). Then you have to deal w/ your old company for cancelling charges if you're on contract.

BTW, if anyone cares...Virgin Canada has a promo for today only (March 14), that if you switch to them, they'll give you a free phone (any phone).

http://www.virginmobile.ca/site/home_en.html

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Is it effective immediately?

Yes.

http://www.wirelessnumberportability.ca/

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur BTW, while we're on the topic, since Guv recently claimed my second cellphone, it looks like I need to buy a new one. I'm kind of tired of candybars, and I hate flip-phones, so it looks like my next phone will be a slider. Can anyone recommend a good one? My budget for it is roughly $400. I don't really care much about mp3 players, cameras, etc - I just want it to have good reception, be small, have a good UI, and a good texting program (i.e. like T9 for SEs)

Samsung U600.

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_u600-1851.php

Not released yet?

In any case, I've already decided on the Nokia E65. Wifi, mmmm. Now I'll be able to surf TA anywhere! (God I'm addicted. Please help, someone)

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Not released yet? In any case, I've already decided on the Nokia E65. Wifi, mmmm. Now I'll be able to surf TA anywhere! (God I'm addicted. Please help, someone)

...on a 320x240 screen. I'd claw my eyes out.

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 ...on a 320x240 screen. I'd claw my eyes out.

You're in class! Stop posting!

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