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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I notice a lot of people here referring to God as a male.....I have never seen God and I am sure none of you have so how can you say God is a male.

the bible say he so god is a male! another proof!

its good to see so many atheist belief the bible is frought too. occrider and nitemer and renegade has no chance - their arguing against four of us (me, floorfiller adn drug_tito and uwm) !!!!

and drug_tito - some guy i know on another msgboard knows the producer of xfiles (chris nolan)! he says that xfiles stopped becuz bush think they came to close to the truth! so ur properly right about the aliens!!!

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Originally posted by George Smiley The Bible is wrong! It was edited and put together 350 years after Jesus dies by a group of people who had political objectives to fulfill. You tell me what day it says Jesus was born on? It doesn't. Yet we all were told he was born on 25th december...why? Cos that was the main festival (its actually winter solstice) of the pagans who were prevelant in the Roman empire at the time. Why do Jews have their hold day on saturday and Christians on the sunday if Christianity came from Judaism? Cos the Roman pagans holy day was on subday. What Christians are actually worshiping is the Roman Sun God! You fucking mugs!! Would the great unwashed of the Roman empire simply have accepted Christianity as their new religion? No. Christianity had to be a bastardisation of the Roman sun god worship and aspects of Christianity fixed onto that template. The gospels cant even make their mind up whether Jesus was born in a stable or a house and was it shepards or wise men who visited Jesus cos they cant even decide on that! So the gospels certainly are not true 100% cos they contradict each other therefore it is a pretty safe bet other parts are wrong. Most of the gospels that went against the Bible editors political beliefs were simply left out. Jesus had to be immortal as thats what the Roman sun god was so anything that said other wise was not included and the followers of these true forms of Christianity wiped off the face of the planet by the Catholic church (ie the Gnostics) Same for any gospels that elevated women as equals (ie gospel of Mary) as the blokes didn't want any women getting power. But even the gospels that did make it got edited! You heard of Lazarus? Brought back from the dead?! Was he shite. In the gospel of Mark there is a section taken out of the Lazarus story that suggests he is alive in the chambre and it is just a ceremony (the actual reason it was edited out was not because of that but because Jesus slept naked with the naked Lazarus and some people might thinkl thats a bit gay!!) As for the old testiment well thats even more full of shit. The Jews never made the exodus from Egypt - FACT. Moses didn't write the first 5 (or 4?) books they were all different authours - FACT So no I do not have any respect for people who believe in a book that was written for the specific purpose of controlling a population and all those that do are dumb dumb dumb...

Please allow me to address a few things about your statement.

Most scholars believe Jesus was born between September 12 and 14 based on Roman records and astrological models (there was a steller phenominon that would have occured at that time which is thought to be the "star" of Betheham). I agree with you the day was moved to fit with Roman celebrations.

Early christians gathered to meet on Sundays prior to it being the official church of the empire. Sunday was chosen as the sacred day because Jesus' resurection occured on a Sunday. Interestingly, early christians would also follow the rules regarding not working etc. on the jewish sabeth in order to not be discovered as christians.... this led to the two day weekend that exists today because the practice remained even through the Roman period.

Confusion between whether Jesus was born in a stable or a house is not evidence that the gospels are in opposition. Your claim of this shows that you have a lack of understanding of the times at which the story occured. The Galelien tradition was to have the "stable" as part of the house. The living quarters were generally the upper rear portion of the building and the stables were the lower floor. Think of a loft overlooking a small barn. This is likely the reason for the confusion in the Gospels.

As far as shepards and wise ment are concerned it is clear that the sheppards arrived first and the "wise men" several days later.

You are correct that there are a number of accounts of Jesus' life that do not appear in the bible. Since the Vatican owns all of these and does not allow them to be viewed one can only speculate as to why they are not included. The Vatican's official position is that they are redundant and/or they are only partial accounts of isolated events.

I do not doubt that there has been substantial editing of the bible, however, unless you know for sure what was ommited I would suggest that you are in no position to assert anything in this regard. It is fun to speculate though isn't it.
My favorit is the idea that Jesus was married to Mary Magdoline. It would have been uncommon for Jesus not to be married, in fact it would have been contrary to his religion and by all accounts Jesus was a very good Jew. Additionally, the bible refers to the "grail" being at the foot of the cross. The Greek word that grail was translated from actually means receptical of blood. In poetic terms that would suggest a child. The bible also says that Mary was at the foot of the cross... could it be Mary was preggers with the big JC's kid?

The Egyptians have record of an insignificant slave revolt at the time of the exodus. There is also record of the Ramsis first son dying mysteriously at the same time. I'm not saying this is proof of the exodus but it does fit with the story.

I don't doubt that Moses didn't write all the books he is credited with, however, if you are to assert something as fact I would appreciate your source.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I notice a lot of people here referring to God as a male.....I have never seen God and I am sure none of you have so how can you say God is a male.

God was likely writen as a male for one of two reasons.
1) God revealed himself to the Isrealits as a male because they were a patriarchal society and would more readily accept the ultimate power in the world as a male rather then a female or a non-sexual entity.
2) The writers of the bible chose to protray God as being a man because they wanted to reinforce the patriachal system they had created. Having God as male suggests that it is by devine order that men be in authority.

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Originally posted by George Smiley If you think Jesus is anything more than a Che-Guevara-cum-David-Blaine of his times then your a fucking clueless idiot. You never heard of "the cult of personality"? Never seen The Life of Brian its all conclusive proof that Jesus was merely a socialist revolutionary you was clever enough to realise that stupid people (ie YOU) would believe in his Marxist doctrine if he performed a few magic shows (what you might refer to as "miracles") Feeding of the 5,000? The poor go to Heaven while the rich go to hell? Pure socialism

What??? You got to be fucking kidding me. Socialist??? Look here you minger, Jesus is about as capitalist as apple pie. Of course you would believe that life of Brian bollocks because a fellow wanker made it. If jesus were alive today he would embrace all American values such as American football:



And the almighty dollar:





I tell you what, I'm going to use my 7 Jesus dollars, I'm going to buy your mom for the night, and I'm going to spend it slapping her around because she gave birth to such an ignorant twat. I'm pretty sure it's what Jesus would have wanted.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Please allow me to address a few things about your statement. Most scholars believe Jesus was born between September 12 and 14 based on Roman records and astrological models (there was a steller phenominon that would have occured at that time which is thought to be the "star" of Betheham).

There are no records of a census taking place at the time Joseph and Mary went on their travels. Strange no?

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As far as shepards and wise ment are concerned it is clear that the sheppards arrived first and the "wise men" several days later.

No its clear the authours of the gospels forgot to get their stories straight before they sat down and wrote them (and tell me, who wrote the gospel of John?)

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I do not doubt that there has been substantial editing of the bible, however, unless you know for sure what was ommited I would suggest that you are in no position to assert anything in this regard. It is fun to speculate though isn't it.

Some have been found (well, parts of them) in the Nag Hammadi texts

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My favorit is the idea that Jesus was married to Mary Magdoline. It would have been uncommon for Jesus not to be married, in fact it would have been contrary to his religion and by all accounts Jesus was a very good Jew. Additionally, the bible refers to the "grail" being at the foot of the cross. The Greek word that grail was translated from actually means receptical of blood. In poetic terms that would suggest a child. The bible also says that Mary was at the foot of the cross... could it be Mary was preggers with the big JC's kid?

Have you read Holy Blood? Its quite interesting (was what the Da Vinci code is based on) and makes a strong case using passages within the Bible itself to suggest the Crucifix was staged and Jesus survived it (then there are all kinds of theories like Jesus went to India and had an influence on Bhuddism)

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The Egyptians have record of an insignificant slave revolt at the time of the exodus. There is also record of the Ramsis first son dying mysteriously at the same time. I'm not saying this is proof of the exodus but it does fit with the story.

There is no archaelogical evidence to suggest that large numbers of people crossed the Sinai - none whatsoever

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I don't doubt that Moses didn't write all the books he is credited with, however, if you are to assert something as fact I would appreciate your source.

It was a documentary I saw over Christmas and it was conclusive that Moses did not write them (not sure if I can find a link I'll have a look)

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Originally posted by occrider What??? You got to be fucking kidding me. Socialist??? Look here you minger, Jesus is about as capitalist as apple pie.

I'm not sure I agree with you there. A true capitalist would not have overturned the tables of the money traders. Additionally, most christian churches are pretty left wing when it comes to distribution of wealth. Don't get me wrong, there is a strong work ethic in christianity but I don't think that is because Jesus would have played the market if he were alive today.

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Originally posted by George Smiley There are no records of a census taking place at the time Joseph and Mary went on their travels. Strange no? No its clear the authours of the gospels forgot to get their stories straight before they sat down and wrote them (and tell me, who wrote the gospel of John?) Some have been found (well, parts of them) in the Nag Hammadi texts Have you read Holy Blood? Its quite interesting (was what the Da Vinci code is based on) and makes a strong case using passages within the Bible itself to suggest the Crucifix was staged and Jesus survived it (then there are all kinds of theories like Jesus went to India and had an influence on Bhuddism) There is no archaelogical evidence to suggest that large numbers of people crossed the Sinai - none whatsoever It was a documentary I saw over Christmas and it was conclusive that Moses did not write them (not sure if I can find a link I'll have a look)

My understanding is that there are records of a census. Agustas Ceasar did order one in the first two or three years BC.

I cannot tell you who wrote the gospel of John but I can tell you it is the first writen account and dates circa 140 CE.

There is, however, archaelogical record of a large number of chariots and riders drown in "The Reed Sea" which is a marshy area of the Nile delta, which during low tide is passable by foot.

IF you can find the link I'd like to check it out... reconsiling the bilbe with historical record and archaelogical record is always interesting. I'll check out Holy Blood as well (thanks).

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Originally posted by occrider What??? You got to be fucking kidding me. Socialist??? Look here you minger, Jesus is about as capitalist as apple pie. Of course you would believe that life of Brian bollocks because a fellow wanker made it. If jesus were alive today he would embrace all American values such as American football:

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard I'm not sure I agree with you there. A true capitalist would not have overturned the tables of the money traders. Additionally, most christian churches are pretty left wing when it comes to distribution of wealth. Don't get me wrong, there is a strong work ethic in christianity but I don't think that is because Jesus would have played the market if he were alive today.

Jesus overturned the tables of the money traders because God wasn't getting a peice of teh action. You know, kind of like protection fee from the mob. I would be pissed too if someone were spending time making money, instead fo worshipping me, without giving me a cut!!! Anywho Jesuss is very capitalistic now. For example teh church just came out with a jesus bond:

http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/arc...705/061705a.php

I'm sure the priests/pope consulted with God/Jesus to figure out the right interest rates and stuff. Because Jesus is probably a financial whiz with over 2000 years of experience so far. Short the equity markets! Invest in Jesus!

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee

I like my cups of stfu cold. Please try again!

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee

Hey this is your thread. You started this mess.

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Originally posted by occrider I like my cups of stfu cold. Please try again!

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard My understanding is that there are records of a census. Agustas Ceasar did order one in the first two or three years BC. I cannot tell you who wrote the gospel of John but I can tell you it is the first writen account and dates circa 140 CE. There is, however, archaelogical record of a large number of chariots and riders drown in "The Reed Sea" which is a marshy area of the Nile delta, which during low tide is passable by foot. IF you can find the link I'd like to check it out... reconsiling the bilbe with historical record and archaelogical record is always interesting. I'll check out Holy Blood as well (thanks).

This is the documentary (doesn't really say much but you might find keywords to search for)

Also Israel Finkelstein is the Israeli archeologist that discovered the exodus was a load of betty swollocks

If you read Holy Blood, Holy Grail you should only pay attention to Part Three as that is what concerns the Bible and Jesus. What the authours did was combine two theories together - one that there was secret society called the Priory of Sion that was protecting some secret (a bloodline from the Merovingan kings of France) and one that Jesus married Mary and had kids. The authours attempted to suggest that the secret of the Priory of Sion 9the bloodline) was that of Jesus. Unfortunately for the authours (and for a fascinating theory!) the guy who they got the information from about the Priory of Sion had faked it all as he wanted to become king of France! However, the stuff about Jesus marrying Mary is all taken from clues in the Bible and that part at least is very compelling (as in a rational world that is what most likely would have happened!)

hey arbiter!!!! let's meet up this weekend i'll take you to dinner.

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee

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Originally posted by George Smiley This is the documentary (doesn't really say much but you might find keywords to search for) Also Israel Finkelstein is the Israeli archeologist that discovered the exodus was a load of betty swollocks If you read Holy Blood, Holy Grail you should only pay attention to Part Three as that is what concerns the Bible and Jesus. What the authours did was combine two theories together - one that there was secret society called the Priory of Sion that was protecting some secret (a bloodline from the Merovingan kings of France) and one that Jesus married Mary and had kids. The authours attempted to suggest that the secret of the Priory of Sion 9the bloodline) was that of Jesus. Unfortunately for the authours (and for a fascinating theory!) the guy who they got the information from about the Priory of Sion had faked it all as he wanted to become king of France! However, the stuff about Jesus marrying Mary is all taken from clues in the Bible and that part at least is very compelling (as in a rational world that is what most likely would have happened!)

Thanks. BTW, I'm pretty certain that Jesus was married, likely to Mary. It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't as it would have been so contrary to the customs of the day. It also makes sense to me that great lengths would be taken to cover up his blood line because they would alway be a threat to the authority of the church.... who you gonna side with, some old dude in Rome or Jesus' great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandson.

Anyway, Jesus wasn't from Nazereth or born in Bethlehem. Why do you think there is nothing about his youth in the Bible? The son of God is born and everyone comes to see him (well, shepards or wise men the jury's still out on that one) and then just like that nobody gives a shit about him any more! You wanna knwo why? Cos that nativity didn't happen! Jesus first came to that area when he was a man, not before. It is believed he came from one of the ancient civilisations in the lost world, probably the Incas or Atlantians who had advanced technology and advanced political theories. Thats why he came to the Middle East as a missionary to an uncivilised world to help them advance as a civilisation. Jesus was a missionary spreading his civilisations good practices around the world. Cos of the technology he could trick people into thinking he was doing miracles. Then after he was "crucified" he left the Middle East after doing a pretty good job (apart from the being crucified part) and moved onto India and after that went to China.

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Originally posted by trancaholic the bible say he so god is a male! another proof! its good to see so many atheist belief the bible is frought too. occrider and nitemer and renegade has no chance - their arguing against four of us (me, floorfiller adn drug_tito and uwm) !!!! and drug_tito - some guy i know on another msgboard knows the producer of xfiles (chris nolan)! he says that xfiles stopped becuz bush think they came to close to the truth! so ur properly right about the aliens!!!

Wow man really? That's just like so fuckin cool man to know that guy! I wonder what more secrets he know sbut can't tell cuz all those CIA and FBI guys watching him and his every word and stuff. They properly have blackmailed him or something so that he must keep quiet But I had a feeling he was getting close to somthing. It was to much just to be an imagionation thing, it had 2 b real. Tehre's so much that the governemt don't want us to know about but it's getting to big, they can't keep it a secret 4ever. Did you see how those area 51 sightings become more and more frequelent? I think there's somthing big gonna come soon. They've been preparating for it long enough.

oh and occrider and renegade and nitmer, you're such tools u guyz. Can't u c that they're manipulating you and feeding you feiry tales? Noah's ark yeah right, it was a spaceship, and jesus was a human-alien hybrid, that's why he could do all that. You're so gullible you'll bolieve anything, LOL

When them aliens come from their hiding places in Cydonia and their secret bases all over the world, we'll see where ur god will be then to save your sorry asses U think area 51 is the only one aroudn here? They're all over the world. And we can't do shit without them knoing. They're monitoring this board to u know. and prolly laughing at what neives you guyz r beliving in the crap they fed u

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Originally posted by George Smiley Anyway, Jesus wasn't from Nazereth or born in Bethlehem. Why do you think there is nothing about his youth in the Bible? The son of God is born and everyone comes to see him (well, shepards or wise men the jury's still out on that one) and then just like that nobody gives a shit about him any more! You wanna knwo why? Cos that nativity didn't happen! Jesus first came to that area when he was a man, not before. It is believed he came from one of the ancient civilisations in the lost world, probably the Incas or Atlantians who had advanced technology and advanced political theories. Thats why he came to the Middle East as a missionary to an uncivilised world to help them advance as a civilisation. Jesus was a missionary spreading his civilisations good practices around the world. Cos of the technology he could trick people into thinking he was doing miracles. Then after he was "crucified" he left the Middle East after doing a pretty good job (apart from the being crucified part) and moved onto India and after that went to China.

Now this is just as unbelievable as anything in the bible.

BTW, there was a Roman town built near nazareth at the time of Jesus' youth... it was later abandoned. Roman records confirm that both a Joseph and a Jesus worked on the site as masons (carpenter is actually a misinterpretation of the greek).

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Now this is just as unbelievable as anything in the bible.

Why there is proof that the ancient civilisations were very very advanced, nearly up to modern standards, and it is only human nature to spread your beliefs and practices to others. We do it all the time today by spreading democracy etc. That was exactly the same back then. Cos Jesus came from a society so far advanced he appeared God like, just like I would if I travelled back in time and started preaching.

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Drug_Tito: "Did you see how those area 51 sightings become more and more frequelent? I think there's somthing big gonna come soon. They've been preparating for it long enough"

Yea its called the second coming and is gonna happen. However its not the second coming that Christians believe in altho it is related. Those ancient civilisations (Incas, Atlantians, Dubrovnikans, etc) all dissappeared 1000s of years ago, but where did they go? And more to the point, where did they get their advanced technology from and their knowledge from? Jesus spread that knowledge to us so we could live in peace and prosperity but we have now reneged on what Jesus taught us and decended back into uncivilisation. So whoever gave the Atlantians their knowledge and power (ie how to be a true great civilisation) will come back to help us get back on track - and that is what will be the second coming

slylee why dont you sftu urself???? ur not bringing anything new or intelligetn to the topic!!

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Originally posted by occrider

didnt see that coming did you godboy!!

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Wow man really? That's just like so fuckin cool man to know that guy! I wonder what more secrets he know sbut can't tell cuz all those CIA and FBI guys watching him and his every word and stuff. They properly have blackmailed him or something so that he must keep quiet But I had a feeling he was getting close to somthing. It was to much just to be an imagionation thing, it had 2 b real. Tehre's so much that the governemt don't want us to know about but it's getting to big, they can't keep it a secret 4ever. Did you see how those area 51 sightings become more and more frequelent? I think there's somthing big gonna come soon. They've been preparating for it long enough. oh and occrider and renegade and nitmer, you're such tools u guyz. Can't u c that they're manipulating you and feeding you feiry tales? Noah's ark yeah right, it was a spaceship, and jesus was a human-alien hybrid, that's why he could do all that. You're so gullible you'll bolieve anything, LOL When them aliens come from their hiding places in Cydonia and their secret bases all over the world, we'll see where ur god will be then to save your sorry asses U think area 51 is the only one aroudn here? They're all over the world. And we can't do shit without them knoing. They're monitoring this board to u know. and prolly laughing at what neives you guyz r beliving in the crap they fed u

Wehre do you get your info you nut??? It's in all of the history books aobut noah and his ark boat! Plust haven't you seen Indiana joans and the ark of the covenant??? It's no coinsidense! Steven Spelberg knows that the bible is the truth!

Why don't you pick up a book and read about Noahs ark. It's common to all cutlures!



Haha I bet Noah hated woodpeckers! But God said two of everything. And you don't mess with God wehn he's feeling floody!!

Stupid picture is missing the dinosaurs though. NOah took them along too. They're probably below decks.

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