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-- Vinyls vs. CDs
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i think what its important is the music the means how you make it nobody cares the vinyls has advantages like they give you "porte" but the equipment like turn tables and records are very expensive and they are not easy to transport because of that i prefer digital mixing because its more easy to transport and emule all the features of the vinyls

quote:

Originally posted by Mike123 Wow, alot of anger we have, dont we? I bet you will get far with that attitude.

dear 123

please accept my deep appologies .
I gave you the impresion I was angry or impatient when posting on a brand new thread on a very important debate such as the " vinyl vs cd " which I inexcusably dismised as "pointless".
I will from now on write in a polite and friendly style you approve of.

Please allow me to make it up :

When someone wants to choose whether he is going to use digital or vinyl
there are many important factors one should consider:

-The equipment he/she currently has access to.
if one has cdj i would recomend he uses cds ,if one has turntables cds will not be accessable via the use of a turntable so in that case I would recomend vinyl.
If one is so lucky that he happens to own both well will have the immediate advantage over the rest to deside.

.The music he/she currently owns

Very very important. If one happens to own a lot of records selling them for a fraction of their cost and building a collection from scratch again on cds is ... well... not very wise.

.The budget he/she is on.
if its just 150-200 $ djing software and a audio interface should be enough to get you started.

.The space he/she has available for the gear .

If is just a nightstand I would personaly recomend a dual cdj and the reason for that is that any attempt to fit 2decks such as the sl-1200 on a nightstand
would inevitably fail due to the lack of space.

.What format he / she feels comfortable djing with.
After all we are creatures of habit arent
we?

.What format his / her favorite dj idols use when djing.

If one is into ,friendly/party house that slightly leans towards the mainstream side and gets exposure through very important radio shows such as the essential selection,
well known and established djs such as roger san., (who is leading the format) '
& erick morillo have already desided what format they will be using
so the best way to get into the limelight next to them
is to simply forget your individual preferences and
immitate their every move so that you can get "far" like they did.

quote:

Originally posted by harriz dear 123 please accept my deep appologies .

Don't worry man, I think that people just got confused as you wrote most of our post in CAPS people assumed you were shouting. Maybe you were, but people also have a tendancy to read negative tone of voice into a post before a positive one.

At the end of the day, this thread is purely for fun as the ultimate outcome of this debate (if indeed there is a debate still to be had) is to be decided on the dancefloors.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Don't worry man, I think that people just got confused as you wrote most of our post in CAPS people assumed you were shouting. Maybe you were, but people also have a tendancy to read negative tone of voice into a post before a positive one. At the end of the day, this thread is purely for fun as the ultimate outcome of this debate (if indeed there is a debate still to be had) is to be decided on the dancefloors. Cheers Nem

After all as I said on my original post its the MUSIC that matters.
I couldnt live without my final scratch 2 though :-)
It blurs the line.

has anyone sold their turntables after buying cdjs? i am wondering if i should beucase i need money. i cant afford vinyl anymore, nor can i fathom paying so much for music now especially when i am no pro and i am not making any money from this [expencive] hobby

Well, a few days ago I went down to my local music store and tried out some of the top of the line CDJ's out there and I must say its just not as fun as vinyl, thats for sure.

But the reality is digital is the future, and digital tracks are far cheaper than vinyl.

Yet after thinking about it for a long, long, long time I came to the realization that the reason I am djing is for fun, and if I buy cdj's I wont be having as much fun. Therefore the best decision for me is vinyl... I'll buy tracks whenever I can, and slowly work from there. And god willing, I'll be able to buy cdj's or Final Scratch one day.

In the end it comes down to the fact that both formats are here to say, and its merely a matter of preference. So if you're unsure, go out there and try different CDJs and TTs and make the decision thats best for you.

Cheers,

cdjs may not be much fun for what you do... but i can guarantee that it will open some doors and allow you to do things that youve never done before. i felt the same way until i saw zabiela... theres a video of him floating around i suggest you take a look and see what other things can be done so that you can have more fun.

quote:

Originally posted by DjJade cdjs may not be much fun for what you do... but i can guarantee that it will open some doors and allow you to do things that youve never done before. i felt the same way until i saw zabiela... theres a video of him floating around i suggest you take a look and see what other things can be done so that you can have more fun.

i think i saw that. i dont think i could handle all those funktions.

haha... yea it will be a slow learning process for me. right now its about playing music and having fun as previously stated... so when i can afford more tracks, that means more fun for me

: P

quote:

Originally posted by djwright i think i saw that. i dont think i could handle all those funktions.

RTFM

It is my opinion that unless you have established yourself and you have conections to the music industry you souldn't convert to digital completely.
The competition is serious nowdays and the only way you are going to have fresh music to establish your self locally is if you fork out the money and take the time to look for some promos.
By the time the tracks make it to beatport or to any p2p site (which by the way is illegal)
hard working vinyl djs who pay for their music will have moved on to the stuff cd djs
will be playing next week/month.
Digital is recomended for collecting older music that you cant find on vinyl but everybody knows that you cant base your set on older music unless you are doing a retro night :-)

Props man.

And to further re-enforce that comment, anything on line that someone is playing is no doubt going to loose it's exclusivity instantly. So much for the stand point that it "helps to break out new artist by playing digitally" because this is completely untrue.
What it does it gets lost in a mess of digital noise, usually never to be heard again from since its "online release" - pirated or otherwise.

And who cares if majors are playing off CD or digital and point to that as a reason to jump ship and flush the whole scene down hill with them, they barely spend a dime on records in the first place.

see Limitation is not nesecerelly bad. If you are working and you are on a budget you will appreciate the music you will be paying for, not to mention if you pay 8 pounds plus
shipping for a promo prereleace side from a internatinal record shop,there is only so much that you can afford, and the stuff that will make it to your shopping cart will be the latest and the best.
Compare that to some kid playing shitty sounding mp3
(Yes MP3 do sound empty and shitty on your average club pa that isnt exacly the same as the one in fabric or cocoon)
he downloaded using p2p
sites and ....hes playing BIG tunes EVERYBODY... is FUCKIN s-i-c-k off.
Yeah sure he has... thousants ,but can he appreciate the music he's playing ?does he even
take the time to listen to what he is downloading or is he downloading the stuff overblown
pop star famous people put on their charts because ,not only they do not pay for the music they also pay for their jets and sportscars promoting shit to ignorent people that
actually believe that BIGSTAR DJ chart is the music the BIG STAR DJ is playing.
so there he is sitting in the bedroom filling up his harddrive with a mismatch of genres and songs.
HE lists his decks on ebay along with his ,poor in quantity but rich in quality, record collection to convert so that he will ''LOOK'' like a modern dj.
And the people who never learned to beatmatch : ABLETON LIVE (just like sasha...only sasha knows what he is doing)
they are standing there with their left hand on their mouse clicking on their graduation gift ,triggering loop after loop ,without structure,nor rhythmic sence,clashing melodies randomly patched together ...
FOR GOD SAKES NO!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by harriz see Limitation is not nesecerelly bad. If you are working and you are on a budget you will appreciate the music you will be paying for, not to mention if you pay 8 pounds plus shipping for a promo prereleace side from a internatinal record shop,there is only so much that you can afford, and the stuff that will make it to your shopping cart will be the latest and the best. Compare that to some kid playing shitty sounding mp3 (Yes MP3 do sound empty and shitty on your average club pa that isnt exacly the same as the one in fabric or cocoon) he downloaded using p2p sites and ....hes playing BIG tunes EVERYBODY... is FUCKIN s-i-c-k off. Yeah sure he has... thousants ,but can he appreciate the music he's playing ?does he even take the time to listen to what he is downloading or is he downloading the stuff overblown pop star famous people put on their charts because ,not only they do not pay for the music they also pay for their jets and sportscars promoting shit to ignorent people that actually believe that BIGSTAR DJ chart is the music the BIG STAR DJ is playing. so there he is sitting in the bedroom filling up his harddrive with a mismatch of genres and songs. HE lists his decks on ebay along with his ,poor in quantity but rich in quality, record collection to convert so that he will ''LOOK'' like a modern dj. And the people who never learned to beatmatch : ABLETON LIVE (just like sasha...only sasha knows what he is doing) they are standing there with their left hand on their mouse clicking on their graduation gift ,triggering loop after loop ,without structure,nor rhythmic sence,clashing melodies randomly patched together ... FOR GOD SAKES NO!!!!

First of All, Don't blame Sasha for Using Ableton, I bet He can play Vinyls better than you, and he have prove it, he don't need to go out and proove anyone that he can beatmatch, he can achieve that in seconds, and he use ableton for ocnetrating in live production, wich i think its not easy, and its an unique way of playing. and he odesnt stare with amouse, he have External hardware and midi controllers for producing music live, i dotn think that's easy at all.
About the new stuff, i think you are a little worng, sure there is alot of tunes that if you use cd's will come later than vinyl, maybe one month, but you are not meant to played what's been played by other dj's, if you search ther eis alot of stuff that Big superstar Dj's doesnt play, and you can still have the chance to show it to people first than everyone, if you really are into electronic music, you dotn need to copy about the big artist,

Of course if I play the charts only, There is 100 % sure that i'm goign nowhere in DJing, just coz i am a copy.
There are certain tracks that are great and are in the charts,you will want to play them, ther eis no problem in that.

Djing its not about playign the last tune, its about creating and atmosphere, environment, and birng into ajourney the listener, no matter if the tunes are new, old, whatever, I'm sure ther eis alot of music that have never been played before and its old, and you can brting it to people.

And for the Final thought, many peopel think that beatmatch its tge essence of Djing, I think you are very wrong.

Beat-}Match can be replaced by a computer, but to create A journey with the track selection, and reading crowd, it's a human ability that computers can not do, and thats the most important thing in Djing.

quote:

Originally posted by Pinokio Beat-}Match can be replaced by a computer, but to create A journey with the track selection, and reading crowd, it's a human ability that computers can not do, and thats the most important thing in Djing.

I completely agree with your last statement, well put.

It really doesnt matter what medium you choose, its the track selection that counts. Its always best to choose a medium you're most comfortable with.

About the new stuff, i think you are a little worng, sure there is alot of tunes that if you use cd's will come later than vinyl, maybe one month, but you are not meant to played what's been played by other dj's, if you search ther eis alot of stuff that Big superstar Dj's doesnt play, and you can still have the chance to show it to people first than everyone, if you really are into electronic music, you dotn need to copy about the big artist,

Of course if I play the charts only, There is 100 % sure that i'm goign nowhere in DJing, just coz i am a copy.
There are certain tracks that are great and are in the charts,you will want to play them, ther eis no problem in that.


????????????

I am sorry you are not making any sence .

cdRs are sent by labels to established djs to promote tunes long before anyone
else has them.
for the rest of the pack its hard work.
International recorshops sell pre release promos on vinyl weeks before they release the track on cd so that the aspiring ferry costen wannabee share the shit using p2p.

a producer takes weeks composing /arranging /mastering /a song in colaboration with engeneers trying to make it
sound right.
You just cant achieve that the fly trying out shit using a sound orientated videogame.
wake up people.
vinyl /cds/even the poneer djx is a foward thinking idea.
but looping shit to eternity is as dull as a fucking computer djing.

ever seen that josh wink video where the guy walks to the club to see a boombox
playing?

computers can beatmatch for you but how marketable will you be as an artist
if you let ipod do the djing?

wow!!!! everybody will be thrilled to see you selecting the tracks
on a built in sequenser. (kinda like throwing a coint into that ol juckbox)
nobody can do that!!!!

as far as beatmatching goes its really easy if you ask me.
that souldnt be a problem. that is the fun side of djing.
Doing it and getting perfect at it.
playing stuff that people have put long hours into producing not
playing producer using ableton and fuckin up everybody's friday night out.

ang guess what human djs dont crash.
computers do.

No dear harriz, your not making any sense. Who is looping shit? Jukeboxes? What the hell are you talking about?

And man, your previous post is pure conjecture...

Kids with mp3s, big star dj's and their cars, selling decks on ebay?? wtf?!?
Lovely fantasy you got going there dude. Were you high when you wrote that. Is this some new opiate driven vision? Can I have some?

Man this thread is getting better all the time...

When all logic, sense and plain speaking have failed us, only then will this debate be settled... LoL

1 if you use vinyl you have access to new music.

2 if you use cd your music is dated.

3cds are recomended for older music.


4 if you use ableton you are not really djing in terms of the person who selects
the music others are dancing to.

and finally (I hope I m not loosing you here) :

electronic production in it core is made to be programmed not played
''live'' like a guitar.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I really hope you are getting this, if your attention span is too short for this
I always like to help a stupid person out, so :
--------------------------------------------------------
pay attention now


1 vinyl /cd dvd/recorded media - GOOD (with vinyl a bit more upfront than cd still.)



2 ableton live - a very bad idea



3 djs are still mixing

because :

their skill makes them more marketable :-)
---------------------------------------------------------

see now, it wasnt so hard to understand me was it?

you just have to try a little harder but thats okay
dont feel bad :-)

See now, that is much better, atleast your not rambling about kids buying mp3s and DJ's racing cars whilst selling thier decks on ebay and shit. I mean lets face, it you were just making that stuff up cos you were high... am I right?


LMFAO!!

I really hate to see this kind of argument. People foreseeing "the end of vinyl" and such bullshit, why start dislike good format. Vinyl is as good format as cd, sometimes better sometimes worse, depends on the use or the genre you're playing.

I play hardstyle, I use vinyl. I do some scratches and backspins on a set. Cd isn't the thing for them. I love the vinyl, the way they look and feel in my fingers. Most of the new tracks of the genre i play comes on a vinyl.

Someone plays trance I don't see the reason for using vinyl. In trance you use mostly efx on a efx unit, mixer or a cd-player not from the format. With cd you can do this just fine, vinyl wouldn't suit it any better. Cds do not take as much room as vinyls. Why to dislike them? You can get the same trance tracks in cd as you can get in vinyl. I see no point on cd-players evolving the direction of tts, why should them replace another?

Software: very decent way to start you dj-career. You can practise the basics with them. New tunes are very easy to buy online and download. But when it comes to profession i really hate to see "bigname djs" using just laptop. Of course with a ssl or fs you can do the thing there as with vinyl or cd, but complete set with just software isn't much of respect for me. I saw gabriel&dresden playing a set couple of moths ago and they just used a laptop, no tts nor cd-players, just laptop, they played one of the best sets i've ever heard, but i didn't gave them as much respect that i'd given if they've played other formats aswell.

Good djs can handle every format, good djs won't dis other formats, good djs use 2 out of 3 of these formats when play a set (or atleast one of the first two mentioned).

how about good DJs who understand how digital is destroying dance music (your superstar example being just another case and point) play RECORDS.

It is the format that has got us to this point and a few years ago when people decided to cheap out, sell out and otherwise not put in the time effort and creative energy into their productions/djing thats when it became exceptable to "play digital" and well if trance is in the shit hole situation that it is in right now I can tell you the main reason for that is because of this swing to digital. Period.

Fuck CD players, fuck laptops, fuck superstars. whatever happened to paying 8 bucks to go see some locals rip shit up on two decks with 450 people smashed into a club from doors open to doors closed (and no I am not talking "way way back in 2001" I am talking back in 1996~! in Edmonton for places on earth - that is what was going on!)???

People got fucking lazy. That's what happened. They all wanted the quick and easy path to get them somewhere and that somewhere was nowhere fast.Going back to basics, rejecting the doodads of the modern day and pushing the artform on 12" and two turntables is the ONLY way we are going to get out of this rut. otherwise say hello to the end of disco, once again.

So much anger in this one...

Actually Lithium... I remember you berating psy trance a while ago for being majority digital based. Something about how it was full of kiddies that just liked to listen to anything trippy and download mp3s or something equally as ludicrous. At the time, I couldnt be arsed replying to it because, lets face it... if your not into it, then theres no point me trying to explain it to you.

But...

I actually sat down and had a think... surely there must be vinyl Nazi's like Lithium in the psy scene. Fuck, that scene is even more elitist than the commercial trance scene. Why has psy chosen to go digital and on doing so, making it more accessible to the unwashed masses?

then it struck me like a lightining bolt from the heavens...

.. the dust..

Outdoor parties are notorious for it. All those people stoming around in the bush. It gets into the grooves on the vinyl and wrecks the shit out of it.

So yeah... there you go... interesting eh?

You don’t need electronic guitar in symphonic orchestra, so why would you use it? It wouldn’t make any good to it only ruin it, so why use it? You don’t need vinyl in trance, why use it? Just because everything was “vinyl only” back in 1996 wasn’t because it was better, it was just because there wasn’t much of options. Technology of DJCD-players was crap or nonexistent or rare.

But hell, the parties of 1996 were more colourful. Air was better. People were closer together. Everyone was high, took e, smoked weed or whatever. Propably weed was greener back then aswell. Nowadays everything is just so normal and appreciated by outsiders, sucks eh? It’s called the evolution. What makes a club environment worse than underground party in a warehouse? Is it because you can actually use legal stimulants like alcohol? Like the phrase on Cosmic Gate’s song “yesterday was yesterday, if you try to recapture it you will only loose tomorrow.” There were no drugs on the raves in first place, when they still were about playing, listening and dancing music. Yes I’ve been in warehouse raves, I’ve been in raves in the forest, in clubs, in big open air festivals. It isn’t the stimulants that people use, it isn’t the format people play, it is about music itself that takes me to these places.

At moment I use vinyl only, but I don’t see any reason for people using vinyl, if they don’t need to do the tricks they provide. In trance it’s more about selection, loops and efx, than about scratching or other tricks with vinyl. You still have to match the beats with CD-players like you have to when using TTs.

There have always been as much shitty songs as good ones, back in 1996 too. Maybe there weren’t as many genres as nowadays. But this “digital format is ruining the industry” is just bullshit. Do not fanaticise too much about the format you use, everyone will have their own opinion and they will use the one most suitable for their use. Remember what is not needed is useless.

450 in a club yesterday or 4500 people in a club today, can’t say much about that, but there are still UG with less people in parties, you just have to look on the right direction.

And don't dis each other, your way isn't the best way in other people's eyes. There alot of opinions, alot of point of views. Some see things different than other. Why is christianity better than buddhism. Why is buddhism better than christianity? If you don't know anything about each other why waste words for dissing. Don't get arrogant or ignorant, be open minded. Stuff happen.

That's all for now, I'm just sick'n tired for reading debates based on opinions. Try putting yourself to other peoples shoes, maybe they'll fit better?

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium how about good DJs who understand how digital is destroying dance music (your superstar example being just another case and point) play RECORDS. It is the format that has got us to this point and a few years ago when people decided to cheap out, sell out and otherwise not put in the time effort and creative energy into their productions/djing thats when it became exceptable to "play digital" and well if trance is in the shit hole situation that it is in right now I can tell you the main reason for that is because of this swing to digital. Period. Fuck CD players, fuck laptops, fuck superstars. whatever happened to paying 8 bucks to go see some locals rip shit up on two decks with 450 people smashed into a club from doors open to doors closed (and no I am not talking "way way back in 2001" I am talking back in 1996~! in Edmonton for places on earth - that is what was going on!)??? People got fucking lazy. That's what happened. They all wanted the quick and easy path to get them somewhere and that somewhere was nowhere fast.Going back to basics, rejecting the doodads of the modern day and pushing the artform on 12" and two turntables is the ONLY way we are going to get out of this rut. otherwise say hello to the end of disco, once again.

The main problem is beyond formats.
It has to do with the dancemusic industry being surounded
by egocentric people who couldent possibly give a fuck
about the music.
Oakey paved the way for this shit.

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