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-- The illegal war is on :: denounce America’s imperialism !
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BTW, it is a well known fact that university of Waterloo for example is just as good as MIT at undergraduate level, but I have to agree that if you want to go to Grad school, MIT and other top US schools are better.

quote:

Originally posted by partyprincess I would like to add that I am merely making the point that it is harder to get into Ivy league schools than into top Canadian schools. I have now clue if it is harder there. But on a personal note, I found that my peers at U of T seem to be a lot less educated than my peers at the American HS I graduated from.

Again depends which schools you are talking about. There are bad schools and there are good schools. TOP high-schools in US are probably better than TOP high-schools in Canada(for instance in US there is a school called Thomas Jefferson, which has 2-3 students every year who excel at international olympiads). But on average I'm pretty sure Canadian schools are better.

EDIT: I'm talking about high-schools here

quote:

Originally posted by partyprincess I am considering a B to be the American standard of 80-89...where as you need above 90 from a Canadian HS to get into U of T. So only the top 10 percent of Canadians get in, and the top 20 percent of Americans. This means that the universities find that 80 percent students from America can compete with 90s from Canada. Think about that.

That might have to do with the fact that US students pay a lot more for studying at Canadian universities, than Canadian students. University will get more money from international student, than from a local one.


BTW, again you are pulling those numbers out of your ass.. Graduate of some Harlem school will probably not get into U of T even with A+.

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei That might have to do with the fact that US students pay a lot more for studying at Canadian universities, than Canadian students. University will get more money from international student, than from a local one. BTW, again you are pulling those numbers out of your ass.. Graduate of some Harlem school will probably not get into U of T even with A+.

Why don't we just make up a sample case.

Say a student at an average suburban HS gets a 4.0 (100% average) and involves him/herself in a harder classes than most students over the course of 4 years of high school (only 2 of which would be looked at by Canadian schools). This bright young lady/gent goes ahead to score perfectly their SAT as well (1600). Now the student applies to all the top American and Candian schools. This type of background would assure him/her addmission to any Canadian school of his/her choosing. The top American schools only recieve applications from this type of student, so they will obviously have to reject even those with perfect records. American schools are more selective, that's just a fact.

quote:

Originally posted by partyprincess I am considering a B to be the American standard of 80-89...where as you need above 90 from a Canadian HS to get into U of T. So only the top 10 percent of Canadians get in, and the top 20 percent of Americans. This means that the universities find that 80 percent students from America can compete with 90s from Canada. Think about that.

As Durafei pointed out, you're completely mixing up these numbers. I sincerely hope you're not studying stats.

80-89 is what the American high schools consider to be a B. However, American universities do not care about this. If you are from the USA, they look at your GPA (which is directly proportional to the letter grade). If you are from Canada, the numeric mark is translated into a GPA, an 80% being a 4.0. Do you understand that this is why 90% students from Canada are accepted on the same basis as "80%" students from the U.S. now? It is because an 80% and a 95% from a Canadian school are translated into the exact same GPA. Since the Ivy League cutoffs for GPA are relatively low (I think around 3.5?) then that's good enough for B students over there. For us, there is this massive 20% range near the top where all international students are treated the same.

Please, get your facts straight. Students with 80% from American high schools are most certainly not competing on an academic level with 90% students from here. The Ivy League universities simply have low international quotas, and even then Canada only gets a tiny fraction of it. You seem to be ignoring this fact over and over again - the reason Canadians and other international students need higher grades to get into American universities is because there are a lot less spots for them, and so it is a lot more competitive for us.

Edit: I really hate to bring this up, but on most of the American application forms they also have sections asking information about race, "legacy" info, etc... there is some politics involved in the selection process as well. Please don't shoot the messenger, but it's obvious that they ask those questions for a reason.

Back to the war topic...let me just ask you guys...If the UN weapons inspectors did find WMD in Iraq, and Saddam went on to deny deny deny and accuse the US of planting them or something of the sort. Then would it be ok to go to war in order to disarm him?

quote:

Originally posted by oceanlab Why don't we just make up a sample case. Say a student at an average suburban HS gets a 4.0 (100% average) and involves him/herself in a harder classes than most students over the course of 4 years of high school (only 2 of which would be looked at by Canadian schools). This bright young lady/gent goes ahead to score perfectly their SAT as well (1600). Now the student applies to all the top American and Candian schools. This type of background would assure him/her addmission to any Canadian school of his/her choosing. The top American schools only recieve applications from this type of student, so they will obviously have to reject even those with perfect records. American schools are more selective, that's just a fact.

American universities are definitely a lot more selective. But NOT because they are better - but because there is a lot more people applying. Obviously they can't accept everyone.

Let me shed some light into this "Cnd" High Schools are easy ordeal. First off, in Ontario, the system was CHANGED from a 5 year to a 4 year program, which I am currently inrolled in. Who ever said that its "EASY" to get into Univercity is probobly right. What matters, however, is what program you want to get into. Whoever said that its easy to get into McGill or Queens...I really outta kick you in the face. From what I gather, Durafei is in Waterloo, now...how "EASY" is it to get into WATERLOO Computer Engineering? The new four year program is a BITCH! I get the double cohort and have to compete twice as many graduates. Whatever you tell me, I have it freaking tought this year. (btw, First semester Calculus class average was 60%. Like I said, rangers from SCHOOL TO SCHOOL)

Why don't we talk about Richard's Ivey School of Business at Univercity of Western Ontario. The best business school in Canada. To get into that school, you need a SOLID 93+, in addition to extremly HIGH extracarricular participation. It AIN'T FREAKING EASY! (I wonder if capital letters get the point across. Why don't you americans try getting into MacMaster for the medical program? Less than a hundred people get in out of the whole Canada (my friend is one of them...jackass)

Another point. Marks RANGE from CLASS to CLASS, from SCHOOL TO SCHOOL. From TEACHER TO TEACHER!

Getting into Univercity is no problem. Take social science and Singing as a second major. Getting into a GOOD program into a specific Univercity, now there's the RUB!

hm......I thought we were on the subject of war?
I think all the good things were said about the war, so I'll just support the ideal that Bush is a dickless wonder that had too many problems when he was a child.

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Originally posted by partyprincess Look, I understand what you are saying, but it is simply not true. If this was the case, then B students would get into Ivy league schools. No B students EVER get into the top schools in the US. Maybe if someones father donates a library or something, only then. You are gettting something mixed up.

OMG what is wrong with you!?

INTERNATIONAL QUOTAS!!!

How many fucking times do I need to say it!? If they only accept 100 Canadian students, and 200 apply with 4.0 GPAs (which is just 80%) here, then OBVIOUSLY they won't accept any B students from here! THINK ABOUT IT!!! ARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHH!!

quote:

Originally posted by DiS ... I think all the good things were said about the war, so I'll just support the ideal that Bush is a dickless wonder that had too many problems when he was a child.

And he makes a good point about the programs as well, I kind of thought this would have been obvious but maybe partyprincess is missing it: if these B students are applying for Underwater Basket Weaving at Harvard, yeah, they'll have no problem getting in.

quote:

Originally posted by partyprincess Look, I understand what you are saying, but it is simply not true. If this was the case, then B students would get into Ivy league schools. No B students EVER get into the top schools in the US. Maybe if someones father donates a library or something, only then. You are gettting something mixed up. And by the way, GPA, percentage, and letter grades are all the same thing, just in different form.

The point here is that getting a 95% in the United States could be as difficult at getting an 85% in canada. I already said this. It doesn't matter what the numbers are unless you examine the content that explains them. We simple dont have tham here in front of us so the numbers are meaningless.

quote:

Originally posted by partyprincess The SAT range for acceptance to McGill and U of T are around 1200...for Ivy schools it is 1400+. These score ARE recognized and considered by Canadian Universities so that means that they do matter. What possible argument does anyone have against that? You have to score higher to get into the top US schools than into the top Canadian schools, you have to have better grades as well. People with Bs is the US get into our best schools, doesn't that say anything. To get into the same schools Canadians have to score a lot higher.

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Originally posted by oceanlab ...American schools are more selective, that's just a fact.

I don't get it... what does being more selective about students results and scores have anything to do with the quality of education? It is clear to me that half of you don't have a clue of what a hell you're talking about, or are just slapping on some facts in order to prove a point that doesn't need a proof.

It is a fact that (for example) it's way easier to get INTO the UofT than it is to top American schools, but it is also a fact that it is way harder to get OUT of the UofT than at those top American schools (there's a dozen of factors of course, but the main one being much harder curriculum/grading schemes/etc).

But even with that said, the education system in this country, as well as US, is WAY behind the one in some European countries (including my homeland too), so there's no point in arguing, really. All I can say is that with 9 grades completed over in my country, I was able to complete the OAC (grade 13) Calculus and Finite Math courses here in Canada with no problem whatsoever and with a 95+ average. Other courses in High School were just a breeze, waste of time so to speak... so if you're gonna compare something here, please, I mean please stick to Colleges and Universities.

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Originally posted by partyprincess hahahaha this is getting really frustrating so lets look at some numbers: you were talking about business schools right? Richard Ivey? It is way behind top US schools...18th i believe? http://www.b-school-net.de/

That's for an MBA program, doofus. We're talking about undergraduates.

quote:

you're an idiot. with a couple exceptions, you don't apply on a program based system as you do in Canada, at least learn that before posting idiocy.

Dumbest fucking comment I've heard in a while. The only real difference is that they separate their "programs" into different colleges. Here's an example: http://www.admissions.cornell.edu/colmajors/ Notice how there are different e-mail addresses for the admissions to different sub-colleges? I thought so. Let's not resort to personal insults here, idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut That's for an MBA program, doofus. We're talking about undergraduates.

She's definitely got her shit mixed up big time... jumping all over the place from high schools to colleges and universities, and now to graduate studies and MBAs...

quote:

Originally posted by partyprincess you dont think that this reflects undergraduate study?

BAHAHahahaha that's a good one... but um, no.

quote:

i bet this will be inpossible.

*giggles*

The only thing I can come up with is the following. Results of International Programming Competition for universities over the last 10 years.(This is a VERY VERY prestigious international competition). Notice how much WORSE american university have become over the past 10 years.


2003
====
Took place this weekend. Top US university(Berkely) was a mere 13th.

2002
====
1 Shanghai JiaoTong University
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 University of Waterloo
4 Tsinghua University
5 Stanford University
6 Saratov State University
7 Fudan University
8 Duke University
9 Moscow State University
10 Universidad de Buenos Aires

2001
====
1 St. Petersburg State University 6 728
2 Virginia Tech 6 850
3 St. Petersburg Institute of Fine Mechanics and Optics 6 935
4 University of Waterloo 6 963
5 Albert Einstein University Ulm 5 490
6 Warsaw University 5 586
7 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5 613
8 Seoul National University 5 632
9 Sharif University of Technology 5 780
10 Harvard University 5 795

2000
====
Gold Medal
St. Petersburg State University
The University of Melbourne
The University of Waterloo
Silver Medal
Albert Einstein University Ulm
St. Petersburg Institute of Fine Mechanics and Optics
Tsinghua University
Bronze Medal
California Institute of Technology
Charles University Prague
Kyoto University
Shanghai JiaoTong University
University of Alberta


1999
====
1 University of Waterloo 6 948
2 Albert-Ludwigs Universität Freiburg 6 992
3 St. Petersburg Institute of Fine Mechanics and Optics 6 1046
4 Bucharest Universtiy 6 1048
5 Duke University 6 1337
6 Caifornia Polytechnic State University 5 724
7 University of California at Berkeley 5 732
8 Harvard University 5 733
9 St. Petersburg State University 5 762
10 National Taiwan University 5 847
11 "POLITEHNICA" University of Bucharest 5


1998
====
1 Charles U - Prague 6 919
2 St. Petersburg Univ. 6 1021
3 U Waterloo 6 1026
4 U Umeå - Sweden 6 1073
5 MIT 6 1145
6 Melbourne U 6 1153
7 Tsing Hua U - Beijing 5 743
8 U Alberta 5 758
9 Warsaw U 5 780
10 Politehnica U Bucharest 5 813


1997
====
1 Harvey Mudd College 6 900
2 University of Washington 6 916
2 University of Queensland 6 916
4 National Taiwan University 6 1001
5 University of Waterloo 6 1219
6 Umea University 6 1483
7 Comenius University, Bratislava 5 740
8 St. Petersburg State University 5 760
9 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5 882
10 Korea Adv. Inst. of Science and Technology 5 921

1996
====
1 University of California, Berkeley 6 712
2 Harvard University 6 797
3 University of Waterloo 6 866
4 University of Sofia 6 896
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5 449
6 University of Queensland 5 513
7 Albert-Ludwigs Universitat 5 579
7 Simon Fraser University 5 588
7 Virginia Tech 5 711
7 University of Auckland 5 745
7 Hong Kong Univ. of Science & Tech. 5 755
7 Comenius University 5 757
7 University of Toronto 5 766
7 Columbia University 5 905
7 Carnegie-Mellon University 5 921


1995
====
1 Freiburg 6 991
2 UC Berkeley 6 995
3 TU Delft 6 1244
4 Harvard 5 1049
5 CalTech 5 1068
6 Virginia Tech 4 473
7 M.I.T. 4 676
7 Comenius Univ 4 677
7 U/Melbourne 4 748
7 U/Waterloo 4 1014

1994
====
1 University of Waterloo
2 University of Otago New Zealand
3 Duke University
4 Washington University
5 Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
6 University of California/Berkeley

1993
====
1 Harvard University
2 Stanford University
3 Caltech
4 University of California-Berkeley
5 University of Otago, New Zealand
6 Oberlin College
7 University of Waterloo
7 University of Utah
7 University of Colorado at Boulder
7 Rice University
7 National Chiao Tung University

quote:

Originally posted by oceanlab Back to the war topic...let me just ask you guys...If the UN weapons inspectors did find WMD in Iraq, and Saddam went on to deny deny deny and accuse the US of planting them or something of the sort. Then would it be ok to go to war in order to disarm him?

war ? what war.. ?? it's all about schools now !

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Originally posted by partyprincess So guys, don't hate me because I'm American ok? And because I dance better than you lol...Look better than you...Just kidding.

Someone please tell me when TA became a board based on competition in looks and "dancing".

people who think they are superior to the rest of us "idiots" here, please leave us commoners in our own little defenseless, incompetent online community alone. Please refrain from reducing yourselves to our level

this thread was intended to discuss the big question of whther the war was right or wrong.

there were 2-3 instigators which made things a bit dirty in here (not mentioning names) and there are now 2 people who love USA so much yet live in Canada and condemn the rest of us who live here too.

Now on the main part of this thread, it was concluded pages ago that noen of us have concrete, inside matter/proof that we are correct in our ideas....

Im sure that all of us (me at least) dont think that anyone who thinks a different way will ever change their mind by jsut a debate.

word of advice to everyone, this thread is not a conversion thread.


now...on a side note,

My sisters went to American Universities and when we came to canada a few years ago, when one of my sisters transfered to UofT, they flat out refused several of her credits because the american system is more practical based as compared to the 3/4 theory based system here.

I cant imagine any of you trying to survive a british, Chinese or Indian system of education.

oh and partyprincess, dont think any of us hate you because in reality, 2 inches of makeup and being scantily clad doesnt make anyone beautiful.

)

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut You just said it right there! Only 50-80 people would even have a chance of being accepted! Case closed. Okay look, I'll try not to be patronizing but you've got this backwards. We don't USE letter grades in Canada (at least not before I graduated 3 years ago). So the American universities developed a system for converting our number grades to your letter grades (or GPA): An 80% from a Canadian high school is considered an A, or a 4.0 GPA if they need a GPA. Yes, this is a fact, I had to look into this when I applied to the U.S., so please do not argue it. P.S. nice spelling of "equivalent", smartass. I normally don't nit pick about that, but since you are arguing about education...

American curriculum is bullshit, i have gone through the canadian for 2 years, the british for 10 years and the american for one year. And i must say that the american is much easier, the high percentage requirements for certain letter grades (i.e. 93% for an A- ) is like that to make up for the easiness factor. The British and Canadian teaching systems (yes i said canadian ) are much much better in terms of preparing you for higher learning.

quote:

Originally posted by partyprincess Where the hell did you go to school?

enough places...
does that even matter?

This is too funny. How a thread (albeit a hot topic) can degenerate into a flamewar and then re-degenerate into a totally different and unrellated one and then another totally unrelated one.

This school thing is just plain stupid. Who the fuck cares what school is better? fuck! And anybody that needs to refer to their school to prove how smart they are needs to go back to class. Get a job and show me the money and then tell me what school you went to.

Now back to regular scheduled flame wars:

quote:

posted by oceanlab Back to the war topic...let me just ask you guys...If the UN weapons inspectors did find WMD in Iraq, and Saddam went on to deny deny deny and accuse the US of planting them or something of the sort. Then would it be ok to go to war in order to disarm him?

I never knew Dan Rather was a TA! You seem to only ask the tough questions and not awnser them.

quote:

posted by Time2Burn Answer me these since you're so smart: Does Saddam pose a REAL threat to the USA? Does Iraq still have WMD? Is there a link to Iraq and fundamentalist terrorists? Who benefits the most economically from the war and the rebuilding effort?

You're question relies on a lot of speculation. I sure hope this war isn't being fought with that priciple.

However if a country:

Had vast stockpiles of Weapons of Mass destruction such as a nuclear arsenal, chemical weapons, guided missle systems, or any other heavy artillary
Posed a real threat to your way of life.
Funded military and terrorist forces to subvert your government.
kill or displace hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

Then yes I would understand that there would be a little hostilty towards that country. Personally the only country that I can conclusivly say yes for most of those is the USA. Then I wonder why the Arab world has so much American dissent?

I'm interested in well informed answers to those questions that can prove me wrong. Cause in the end its all about debate right? Hope we can use our eductaion here (instead of agruing about it) and actually get somehwere.

This is tiring. Wake me up when its over.

time2burn, the reason i asked that question was because bush is being criticized for making a poor decision, being a bad "statesman," etc...i just wanted to know what people thought a realistic alternative was.

quote:

Originally posted by partyprincess do you even know what i look like...hahaha...im adding a pic as my avatar

ya i do...u sent me ur pic......remember?? shall i go through my recieved files and post it???

quote:

Originally posted by oceanlab time2burn, the reason i asked that question was because bush is being criticized for making a poor decision, being a bad "statesman," etc...i just wanted to know what people thought a realistic alternative was.

every statesmen makes mistakes.. i guess some ppl just find him worse off than others..

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