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-- Keyed tunes for Harmonic mixers
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Hey guys,

Nice discussions going on here.

As for how Marcus lists his tracks, he may actually find it enough to just list the root note and may not need to know much else about it.

As correctly stated by Ron, there are other ways of doing it other than Camelot and I have to say that while it's good to fall back on there are better ways that have greater effect.
If you analize a guitar chord you will find a few different ways besides the norm in which you can combine notes. The same is true if you look at scales.
Although the thing to remember with scales is that whilst all the notes in the scale will all sound good with the root they may not sound good with eachother.
This is the fun part though. You have to find new ways to lift the dance floor.

Cheers
Nem

PS
Nice to see you posting DJ Prince.
For those who don't know, this guy is one of the main spokesmen of this form of DJing and although it may be unclear who was the first person ever to do it, this guy has definately been one of it's greatest supporters and one of the first to ever put pen to paper to explain it to other DJs.

quote:

there are other ways of doing it other than Camelot

Fraid so,

If there are real underground people here to harmonical mixing and not pop camelot,
lets start .

Do somebody saw that before.
|
|
|
V (pay more attention plz) its from "how to dj right book"

--------If you move up one step(from C to C# or B to C etc)
the new record will use completely different set of notes than the one were you just playing ,and so the change will be very dramatic.To be honest ,most Dj who key their records are interested only in this thing .This is a mixing style most closely associated with TRANCE and PROGRESSIVE HOUSE.
As Anthony Pappa explains,"Say you're playing a record in a certain key ,and it goes down to just a drums.Then if you bring in another record in the right key,when bassline comes in ,it gives an energy lift because it act like a key change."--------


This kind of thing ,that was not posted at camelot sound web site,and its intersting ,even one of the major Dj's like Anthony Pappa agree with that .So ,lets give to it chance, and put in our list of harmonical mixing tips.

more info soon(thnx).

quote:

Originally posted by RonAron303 Fraid so, If there are real underground people here to harmonical mixing and not pop camelot, lets start . Do somebody saw that before. | | | V (pay more attention plz) its from "how to dj right book" --------If you move up one step(from C to C# or B to C etc) the new record will use completely different set of notes than the one were you just playing ,and so the change will be very dramatic.To be honest ,most Dj who key their records are interested only in this thing .This is a mixing style most closely associated with TRANCE and PROGRESSIVE HOUSE. As Anthony Pappa explains,"Say you're playing a record in a certain key ,and it goes down to just a drums.Then if you bring in another record in the right key,when bassline comes in ,it gives an energy lift because it act like a key change."-------- This kind of thing ,that was not posted at camelot sound web site,and its intersting ,even one of the major Dj's like Anthony Pappa agree with that .So ,lets give to it chance, and put in our list of harmonical mixing tips. more info soon(thnx).

Hey Ron,

Not meaning to steal some of your thunder but this type of mixing gets talked about all the time in this thread (Although you are forgiven for not wanting to wade through the masses of posts ). It's just a simple key change mix, very effective, but sounds rubbish if you try and do a longer mix where you have music from both over the top. This is just a quick slam and lift type mix.

You can still get this effect other ways too and still mix harmonically which has also been covered in this thread.

A lot of old rock n' roll tracks used to use this method when they used to go for the final chorus to give a feel of added energy.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Krowster my god! you'r certainly doing a great a job there =] Thnx a million buddy for all this And i gotta admit that many people are asking other people to key tracks for them which is quite annoying sometimes (even i did that once lol). Anyways hope that this thread gets bigger with hardly any people asking for keyed tracks. P.S: qualia, some of the tracks in ur website database are not keyed, their names are present but they arent keyed in. One more thing, could u group all trance tracks together? (i.e prog trance,hard trance,trance under one page) Thnx

thanks krowster... as far as the data you see on the server, i really only have so much control, as it's based on the data of users of rapid evolution. if a song is missing a key, it's because somebody's added it to their personal database but hasn't assigned a key yet. as far as grouping the songs correctly, that depends on the styles users define for their songs. i don't think you'd want me trying to identify the trance songs since i don't actually spin to much trance ;-) one thing i am doing however is working on the ability to edit songs directly over the web, that way if you see a mistake, or if you see a song that should be listed under trance, you can correct it immediately.

granted, i will always be looking for better ways to improve the way the server interprets all this data. for instance, right now i'm sure there are multiple names for the same styles which the server doesn't realize are the same. you should see this aspect improve soon!

Kewlies Will be waiting for more improvements on your website qualia.
I have a question for everyone around here, tho I recall it was discussed before on this very thread but in a different page.
You guys think I should use mixmeister for keying tracks?I heard from loads of people that it's keying is mostly wrong, that true by any chance?
If you guys think the program isn't as good, what do u recommend? (other than using my ears ofcourse.i do use them but not all the time)
thnx again ^-^

Learn some keyboard or guitar basics. Means that you save yourself a ton of aggro and you get a skill.

Nem

to krowster & all others learning,

nem is right, the best way to key your tracks is by far to learn to do it yourself. this is the only way that's reliable, and will also improve your music skills in general.

the only thing i use automatic detection for is until i have time to listen to the songs and key them myself (even then, i will often verify the key of a song while i mix since i usually have a keyboard nearby). that said, mixmeister has been a good approximation for me. it gets roughly 60% right. i've noticed rapid evolution gives completely different results sometimes, but overall it's accuracy is about the same, just slower... toneart i haven't tried but only acts on wav files. i don't think anybody is aware of any other automatic detection software...

quote:

Hey Ron, Not meaning to steal some of your thunder but this type of mixing gets talked about all the time in this thread

thnks for...now i know,

But to start from that ,will be great.

Ill try to search more info around and move to other steps.

quote:

Kewlies Will be waiting for more improvements on your website qualia. I have a question for everyone around here, tho I recall it was discussed before on this very thread but in a different page. You guys think I should use mixmeister for keying tracks?I heard from loads of people that it's keying is mostly wrong, that true by any chance? If you guys think the program isn't as good, what do u recommend? (other than using my ears ofcourse.i do use them but not all the time) thnx again ^-^

About programs: use them untill u will be able to do it with instrument .Also ,do some trainings for ears ,to deliver perfect pitch ,if you want,then chek David Lucas Burge's courses ,they are very good ,belive me if you dont know what is it perfect pitch ,you will know it with those courses ,and will fastly deliver it ,it depends on your trainings(personaly i think is the best way to find the key of the track).

But you will need some knowledge of simple music theory (ex:KEYS)
So ,if you want ,you can pick it up with perfect pitch and put your hands on keyboards or strings its also important .

More,

Well ,my personal technic of find keys ,when i dont have a keyboard near me or i have ,doesnt matter,its :

A CHROMATIC TUNER (ilike the KORG ones ,but all of them do the job)

So what i do?

I dont have perfect pitch ,so ,i sing a root of the track to the mic of tuner(sounds fun) and tuner shows me the key
,but remember you should hear the root and then sing,its not easy ,
this tehnic is lazy stuff for those, who want to deliver perfect pitch ,but usefull when you dont have one.

So mostly i use just the tuner.

Is that harmonics database site going to work anytime soon? Also, what's the most up-to-date list of keyed tunes we have in the thread so far? (more specifically progressive house tunes).

I just got my sister to help me with keying some tunes, however she isn't 100% sure on them. Anyone want to confirm some of these keys for me?

Hiratzka & Kazell - Reaction (Original Mix) E
Hiratzka & Kazell - Reaction (Future Funk Remix) E
Luke Fair - Lokitas Gm
Luke Fair - 34k F
Dan Sampson & Jhereal - One More Dance (Danny Howells Re-edit) C
Dan Sampson & Jhereal - One More Dance (Instrumental Mix) C
Peace Division - What Is This Sound (King Unique Edit) Em
Sirus - An Eye For An Eye (Pete Heller Edit) B or Bm?
Matthias Heilbronn - Like This D#/Eb
Matthias Heilbronn - Dub This D#/Eb
Simon - Got Me (Club Mix) C
Simon - Got Me (Vocal Mix) C
Ashtrax - Freeload D#m/Ebm
Ashtrax - Something To Get Through G#m/Abm
Ashtrax - Play It Rosa (Instrumental) Am

I would appreciate any help

A question..

I referred to the harmonics database a while back and got the keys of some tunes.

Recently I managed to borrow a keyboard and I decided to key those same tunes manually.

To my horror all the keys i obtained manually were horribly different from those I got from the database.

Could this be coz the keyboard was tuned in a different key?

I have yet to compare the differences in steps (value) for each tune which, if all have the same value difference, implies that it IS indeed my keyboard which has been tuned to a different key.

Failing which, theres something wrong with me.
Anyhow, I stopped keying anything until I have resolved this prob.

i suppose it's possible your keyboard is out of tune. the standard tune defines A4 (the A note nexts to middle C) as 440hz. i don't know if you can verify this. you might want to play a note on a midi instrument on the computer (such as the piano that comes with rapid evolution) at the same time as a note on your keyboard and you should be able to tell if they're the same tune... i'm sure the database could be wrong too! ;-)

rafale,

i improved the midi keyboard in rapid evolution to add microtuning capabilities. in doing so i discovered a recent/possible bug when using certain midi devices, which could have caused the keyboard to be pitched out of tune (up almost one semitone). i don't know if this explains the strange behavior you experienced (or if you were even using re2's keyboard) but wanted to mention it just in case... stupid bugs!!!

Hey qualia,

No actually I was using a hardware keyboard. I don't have it anymore so I can't check if it works, but so long as all my tunes are keyed "wrongly together" then it shouldnt affect my mixing lol.

Here's a question which might seem n00bish to all of you but what the heck:
What does each represent in symbols?
A minor, E major, B major, F-Sharp major, D-Flat major, A-Flat major, E-flat major, B-Flat major, F major, C major, G major, D major, A major, F-sharp minor, D-flat minor, A-flat minor, E-flat minor, B-flat minor, F minor, C minor, G minor, D minor, A minor, E minor, B minor.

If anyone here knows a link to a site that can answer my question that would be great cuz i dont want to be wasting any of ur time in answering something like this...

thnx people

There are a few useful links on these pages.. however if you couldn't be stuffed reading em all (though i guarantee you that after reading em all you won't be asking the same question) heres a couple of links from earlier pages to get u started:

http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/vpc/piano_chords.htm
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


do read! sometimes people explain and then you forget. But if you understand it on your own, its gonna stick much longer.

cheerSs

did you already check: [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

phew!
thnx a mil =]

just wanted to let you know that armin writes the bpm and key on his cds too



and as you can see in the bottom right of the left vinyl

i think i can see greece 2000 vinyl there... hehe good ol classics...

and he doesnt type the if its minor or major... hmmm i know that g&d arcadia is G#m. and sweet sorrow is Cm not C i think

maybe he just don't write the m for minor because nearly all trance tracks are in minor!

yea i thought of that... maybe he doesnt give a fuck tho...

You don't really need to write Major or minor unless you are unsure of it.
To be honest you should know if it's a major or minor just by the feel of it.

But I think that it's a very good point that just basically clinches the arguement against those who don't believe in it (the good ol' anti DJing by numbers clan).

Cheers
Nem

Agreed with Nemesis

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