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-- Religious debate on Jews/Passion of the Christ
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quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel I know this will get the response of "what does 16 have to do with anything?". So I will address it now. Answer: EVERYTHING

We aren't all the same you know. So generalizations aren't going to work in this case.

quote:

When one is 16 you get into this phase of "I know everything and everyone else is stoopid" (we all did). You are old enough to drive a car (in the US), you are just close enough to 17 to get into R Rated movies no problem, and you are halfway through high school and become more entrenched in the mass-personality cult that is high school. Your hormones are on overdrive and it makes you considerably more obstinate than you would normally be.

I don't know everything,and I openly admit this. I'm still in the process of learning a lot. It's an important time of life because of this.

Yes,It's great I'm getting my official license in a couple of weeks. But, what does that have to do with anything? I barely enjoy driving because I'm so afraid of the traffic out there. I mean,it's pretty bad when you have student driver stickers on the back of your vehicle,and people still almost run you off the road and tailgate you,and it only gets worse when you don't have them up.

I don't like R-rated movies usually. None that I can think of.

quote:

A decade ago, I was the intellectual king of my little high school world. I was more well read, got better grades, and had a much stronger personality than 99.5% of the people in the school. I had an ego the size of the Hindenburg that was continually inflated with hot air as I went along. It was not until after I had left high school that I saw how much of an idiot I was and the ego deflated to about the size of a VW microbus, still a decent size, but manageable. It was then that I realized that Socrates was right when he said "The only knowledge is in knowing that you know nothing."

Difference, you went to public school. But, I haven't had the option of this.
I don't think very highly of myself, I never have and I don't think I ever will. There's reasons for this.
I get good grades,but I know I have to work hard to get them,and maintain them.

quote:

The 16 year olds will continue to disagree with me because that is what they do best....but I would venture to guess that even the evil zionist-mustard clan will agree with me on many points.

Age has nothing to do with your maturity level in some cases.
I'm not your average teenager...I actually like to work(infact I prefer my job over school)I listen to my parents. I help my parents,and I don't argue with my parents often. Hanging out with friends,and looking hot isn't a priority for me. Those things aren't important to me right now.I care about what happens to my country,and I follow politics because it is important.

So really, you're claim that teenagers are arrogant, egotistic, and selfish people isn't right. It's just a really bad stereotype.

Age doesn't make me who I am.

quote:

Originally posted by arctic This is actually quite interesting. I'm (newly ) 17, yet I'm a hardcore atheist who can't stand most religious dogma. I take great pride in pointing out the circular reasoning that Heinz and Nelly seem to enjoy using ad nauseam. I also can't stand the 'personality cult' stuff that admittedly does dominate high school, and I'm well aware of the fact that i don't know anything. In fact, I'm eager to put any beliefs that I do hold up for scrutiny, and to examine anything that I may have been mistaken about. How do you explain us having such opposite views & outlooks on life?

You're a 17 year old from Australia. S's post only applies to people from North America.

Don't count on Nelly reading that link you sent. And if she does, she'll probably tell you that God does not consider those to be fallacies...

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 I don't think very highly of myself, I never have and I don't think I ever will. There's reasons for this. I get good grades,but I know I have to work hard to get them,and maintain them.

No, the reason for it is that you're a hardcore Christian, a member of a religion which indulges in fear and insecurity. I've never met any true Christian who had much self-esteem (not talking about secular "don't really give a damn/just be a good person" Christians here).

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 So make up your mind then! Either the bible is correct and people can only go to heaven through acknowledging and accepting Jesus, or they can go there just for being good people. So which of it is correct?

First off,Let me apologize for my late replies. I couldn't walk yesterday, and I was way way way to out of it to have my parents carry me down the stairs.

The Bible is correct,and God is fair. I do know for a fact there is an age of accountability. Also, if a person hasn't heard about God, it's not their fault. In that case, I seriously think God would judge their heart, and go from there.

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Yes, but as you well know, many o' fundamentalist Christians think very lowly of the Catholic Church in general. On the flip side, their historical dissenter, Martin Luther, had some interesting things to say about the Jews in his time: "For, as all can see, God's wrath over them is so great that gentle mercy will only make them worse and worse, and harshness little better. So away with them at all costs." His solution to the "Jewish Question": "Away with them at all costs"

Actually I had no idea about the "reputation" of the catholic church among American fundamentalists.

And the Luther-quote is quite interesting, I haven't heard it before.

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 The Bible is correct,and God is fair. I do know for a fact there is an age of accountability. Also, if a person hasn't heard about God, it's not their fault. In that case, I seriously think God would judge their heart, and go from there.

Well, then what about people who have been only told about Jesus, but never really introduced into his teachings? Where do you draw the line. If someone just said there's a fellow named Jesus that lived once, but can't really say more than that, is the person who heard that supposed to believe it?

And you haven't answered what happens to crazy psychos who go out killing people because they truly believe that god told them to do so. Some of them are even hearing voices in their heads. What happens to them? If they thought god was telling them something else, they wouldn't do what they are doing. So in a way it isn't their fault. They are trying to be good.

What about people who keep doing bad things and genuinely feel sorry about it but can't stop? Take this hypothetical example: a guy robs a bank. Then he really feels sorry for it, and prays to god. Then he changes his mind and does the same thing all over again. So, he does that kind of stuff a few times, and a policeman finally shots him during time when he was feeling sorry and was thinking about giving the money back. At the moment of death, that person was feeling sorry and was in accordance with god, yet if he was to live a few more days, he would have forgot about it. So, does he go to heaven?

^^^ That's of course a very good point that she probably won't address, but wouldn't you say a more practical example would be the Catholic priests sodomizing little choir boys? Surely they know God better than anyone and they're sorry for what they did!

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, then what about people who have been only told about Jesus, but never really introduced into his teachings? Where do you draw the line. If someone just said there's a fellow named Jesus that lived once, but can't really say more than that, is the person who heard that supposed to believe it?

Well,it's the same thing then. They still haven't been told about God's love,and about His saving grace.

quote:

And you haven't answered what happens to crazy psychos who go out killing people because they truly believe that god told them to do so. Some of them are even hearing voices in their heads. What happens to them? If they thought god was telling them something else, they wouldn't do what they are doing. So in a way it isn't their fault. They are trying to be good.

I didn't see that one. :/

Anyway, we all know what God says about murdering. God doesn't tell people to go out and just start killing people.
It isn't God's fault.

quote:

What about people who keep doing bad things and genuinely feel sorry about it but can't stop? Take this hypothetical example: a guy robs a bank. Then he really feels sorry for it, and prays to god. Then he changes his mind and does the same thing all over again. So, he does that kind of stuff a few times, and a policeman finally shots him during time when he was feeling sorry and was thinking about giving the money back. At the moment of death, that person was feeling sorry and was in accordance with god, yet if he was to live a few more days, he would have forgot about it. So, does he go to heaven?

"Through Christ we can do all things"
We can over come anything,with the strength of God.
You'd be suprised what happens to people right as they are passing on. Only God knows that persons heart,and what they are thinking or saying.

All you atheists/secularists/etc in this thread are going about the debate all wrong, you realize. I mean, occrider and MisterOpus sort of have the right idea with these conflicting bible quotes, but the logic is simple here...

You let the argument progress too far by posing questions to her about religion, who goes to heaven and hell, etc. Even if you can expose contradictions, which she'll never accept, you're still missing the point, which is that by arguing with her "later" terms, you are accepting her initial terms!

It follows something like this:
Atheist: "How do you know God exists?"
Theist: "He just does, I know it."
Atheist: "Prove it."
Theist: "Well, you accept that God is all-powerful"
Atheist: "No..."
Theist: "And you accept that he is all-knowing"
Atheist: "...no?"
Theist: "And the Bible is God's word. And if you interpret the Bible in such and such a way it seems to have predicted some event that happened in ."
Atheist: "Now wait a minute, that's just one interpretation and there's no evidence to support that it's actually related to this event..."

Or something like that. But the problem is, as soon as you argue about the interpretation of the bible, you've essentially accepted the Theist's initial terms for the debate: that there is a God, he is all-powerful, all-knowing, the Bible is God's word, etc. Even if you don't believe this, you have let the issue slide in the debate and you are now stuck arguing on their terms.

It really should go more like:
Atheist: "Prove that there is a God."
Theist: "Well, you accept that God is all-powerful"
Atheist: "No, if there is no God at all, there cannot be an all-powerful God."
Theist: "And you accept that he is all-knowing"
Atheist: "No, I don't accept that he exists at all."
Theist: "And the Bible is God's word. And if you interpret the Bible in such and such a way it seems to have predicted some event that happened in ."
Atheist: "The Bible cannot be God's word if there is no God, it does not matter how you interpret it."

Are we seeing the difference here? You are all letting the theistic arguments get out of hand because you allow them to build up. But if the argument progresses like version (2), then the Atheist can be just as stubborn as the Theist without looking stupid and without having to gather more proof: "No, I do not accept this argument, because the validity of this argument depends on you proving your hypothesis that there is a God, which you haven't done. Go back to the beginning and prove it." That's it, that's all there is to it - they can ramble on and on all they want and to each successive post you need only say, "This is wrong because there is no God. Prove that there is a God and we'll take it from there."

I don't know why you try so hard to refute Theistic points that are based on unacceptable initial conditions to begin with. If you just deny the initial conditions, there is no need to try so hard to form a cogent logical attack against their obviously illogical points. Instead you provoke Nellie and let her fly off the handle with her ridiculous posts - just don't give her fodder in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut You're a 17 year old from Australia. S's post only applies to people from North America. Don't count on Nelly reading that link you sent. And if she does, she'll probably tell you that God does not consider those to be fallacies... No, the reason for it is that you're a hardcore Christian, a member of a religion which indulges in fear and insecurity. I've never met any true Christian who had much self-esteem (not talking about secular "don't really give a damn/just be a good person" Christians here).

Damn. So if I move to North America, or apply to study in the US or Canada, I'll become a born again Christian who enjoys sprouting fallacious arguments to the pagans and the infidels? Sounds good to me!

As for the second point, that actually got me thinking about something. You know the old 'What's stopping an atheist from killing someone, apart from the police? Without god, everything is permitted. Go on, have sex with some animals!" argument?

Has it ever occurred to you what it would be like if they ever de-converted? Since the LORD is the only thing stopping from them indulging in rampages of killing, rape, bestiality and so on, imagine how they would behave if they ever became agnostic's or atheists. To me that does go a good way towards proving the 'fear and insecurity' point when it comes to Xians.

"God, please save me from your (ex?) followers."

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Originally posted by arctic Damn. So if I move to North America, or apply to study in the US or Canada, I'll become a born again Christian who enjoys sprouting fallacious arguments to the pagans and the infidels? Sounds good to me! As for the second point, that actually got me thinking about something. You know the old 'What's stopping an atheist from killing someone, apart from the police? Without god, everything is permitted. Go on, have sex with some animals!" argument? Has it ever occurred to you what it would be like if they ever de-converted? Since the LORD is the only thing stopping from them indulging in rampages of killing, rape, bestiality and so on, imagine how they would behave if they ever became agnostic's or atheists. To me that does go a good way towards proving the 'fear and insecurity' point when it comes to Xians. "God, please save me from your (ex?) followers."

No....you will are just as likely to become a born again bible thumper down in oz as you are up here......the only difference is you have a much more well rounded education at 16-17 in australia than you would in the US. Our education system has turned into a series of training exercises to take standardized tests instead of learning how to think.

But I digress....and I am tired (am typing on my mom's laptop since I drove 3 hours down here after work to pick up some furniture....back to the city tomorrow....)

Ugh....i think it is time to sleep.

Continue being a vehement and obstinate teenager, just in an atheistic nature there arctic lol.

MrS

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Originally posted by MrSquirrel No....you will are just as likely to become a born again bible thumper down in oz as you are up here......the only difference is you have a much more well rounded education at 16-17 in australia than you would in the US. Our education system has turned into a series of training exercises to take standardized tests instead of learning how to think. Continue being a vehement and obstinate teenager, just in an atheistic nature there arctic lol. MrS

Now now, your education point doesn't hold, I'm actually going to a Catholic school. Religion is shoved down your throat every day. Flawed arguments for the existence of god are presented in RE every day, and then there's the compulsory masses, prayers before every class and so on. Otherwise, the education I get is top notch, but when it comes to religion & critical thinking, common sense flies out the window. I have mentioned my atheism to some of the priests who levitate around the place, and apparently I'm just 'going through a rough patch, denying the LORD'.

If I'd listened to what I as spoon fed there, I'd probably be getting ready for an early night right now, as the holy Sabbath is coming up tomorrow. As we all know, one has to be on their best behaviour in the presence of the LORD.

Come to think of it, I like being stubborn, vehement and abusive. Is there a religion that rewards me for behaving like that?

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Originally posted by arctic Come to think of it, I like being stubborn, vehement and abusive. Is there a religion that rewards me for behaving like that?

Yes, there is - Christianity.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Yes, there is - Christianity.

You will regret your ways on judgement day, heathen.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Well,it's the same thing then. They still haven't been told about God's love,and about His saving grace.

How much bible knowledge then does it take for a person to be considered knowledgable enough about the word of god that there's no more excuse for that person's infidelity?

quote:

I didn't see that one. :/ Anyway, we all know what God says about murdering. God doesn't tell people to go out and just start killing people. It isn't God's fault.

Well, there are plenty of occasions, especially in the old testament, where god ordered murdering people, or has even done so himself. Take Onan, for example. God killed him exclusively because he was jerking off. So, if a mad psycho goes on a rampage and starts killing people for whom he knows are jacking off, he is executing the word of god. It does say in the bible "thou shall not kill", but that is generally referring to innocent people, as people who have commited crimes against god (like working on sunday, for example) are required to be put to death.

But that's infact a different point. There are people who think they are fulfilling the word of god, and are infact pursuing their ideas regardless of severe punishments such a behaviour invokes. It is easy to draw wrong conclusions from the bible, but you can't deny that those people have wholeheartedly devoted themselves to making world a better place. So what happens to those people who believe they are doing good, who believe in Jesus, yet they are doing terrible thins?

quote:

"Through Christ we can do all things" We can over come anything,with the strength of God. You'd be suprised what happens to people right as they are passing on.

People who are dying are afraid and insecure. Many of them are old and senile. In such a state of mind they are more likely to accept nonsensical arguments and ideas, because they're catching on straws.

quote:

Only God knows that persons heart,and what they are thinking or saying.

Yes, but people change. At a given moment, a person can truly feel sorry for their misbehaviours, but a few days later, that same person might change his/her mind and stop feeling remorse.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Yes, there is - Christianity.

That just doesn't cut it though. Sure, there are the Baptist fundamentalists, Mel Gibson's style ultra-conservative Catholics, Mormons & Jehovah's witnesses. , but then there's all that Jesus stuff. You know, love people and so forth.

I need something really vindictive. Islam won't do, as Allah is meant to be Graceful and forgiving. We can't have that. Satanism is too nice and/or logical, so that wont fly either. Buddhism is way to peaceful, and Vishnu supposedly likes me as well. I mean, come on, why do all the gods fucking love me? Isn't there one who really hates everyone's guts, and enjoys seeing us kill each other? This is really disconcerting.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 As far as I know, Yes. But, Jesus went to the gates of hell and took the keys. So,those people could be free. But,Jesus died on the cross,so now we don't have to. I don't know about you,But, I think that's a pretty darn good gift.

Sorry for taking out a random statement of a couple pages ago for no reason, but i find sad that some people have such a strong conviction in such myths. This one I had never heard of, after 10 years of a catholic education school each saturday. Did you just make it up for all the myths to be a little bit more coherent, heard from some random fundamentalist nut, or is it actually in the holy book that is always right and never ever contradicts itself, the bible?

On an apart note, this debate is pointless, endless and going nowhere, but somehow it is damn fun.

quote:

Originally posted by arctic That just doesn't cut it though. Sure, there are the Baptist fundamentalists, Mel Gibson's style ultra-conservative Catholics, Mormons & Jehovah's witnesses. , but then there's all that Jesus stuff. You know, love people and so forth. I need something really vindictive. Islam won't do, as Allah is meant to be Graceful and forgiving. We can't have that. Satanism is too nice and/or logical, so that wont fly either. Buddhism is way to peaceful, and Vishnu supposedly likes me as well. I mean, come on, why do all the gods fucking love me? Isn't there one who really hates everyone's guts, and enjoys seeing us kill each other? This is really disconcerting.

I don't think there are any. Let's start one - here are the new 10 commandments:

1. I am the LORD Thy God. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me, with the following exceptions: Paul Bernardo, Jeffrey Dahmer, David Berkowitz, and Ted Kaczynski.

2. All who oppose the word of God, Bernardo, Dahmer, Berkowitz and Kaczynski shall be imprisoned and taunted for 12 years, then put to death by live embalming.

3. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, suchwith by making at least Three Human offerings to the LORD.

4. Thou shalt not kill, except in instances of (2) and (3); or whenst someone givest not thou their money; or whenst they refuseth to lie with thee; or whenst they looketh the wrong way at thee.

5. Thou shalt not steal without first checking to see that the Coast is Clear, or being suitably equipped with a weapon to Silence thy Witnesses.

6. Honor thy father and mother by fathering a child with thy mother and sending thy father into the Next Life.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery without the due infliction of severe pain or death upon Thy partner.

8. Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbour's wife unless thou art prepared to take her by force; or by sword; or by Arson. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's Other Property without being prepared to Take or Destroy it.

9. Thou must eateth only the meat of thy fellow man; all who eat food from the Earth, or the Trees, or the Small Creatures, shall be put to death by catapult.

10. This is the word of the LORD; there can be no contradictions nor errors.

Now... who wants to think of a name?

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 Sorry for taking out a random statement of a couple pages ago for no reason, but i find sad that some people have such a strong conviction in such myths. This one I had never heard of, after 10 years of a catholic education school each saturday. Did you just make it up for all the myths to be a little bit more coherent, heard from some random fundamentalist nut, or is it actually in the holy book that is always right and never ever contradicts itself, the bible? On an apart note, this debate is pointless, endless and going nowhere, but somehow it is damn fun.

Nope,it's in the Bible.

Ok, I finally have the answers that I've been meaning to give out.^_^

I think the first one goes to Mister Opus.

Alright, I used the incorrect word. This should clear it up, Sorry for the confusion.

When a person gets saved, they give their life to the Lord.
We are still sinful people,and we still have sins we are weak to.
(Everyone has sins they are weak to unfortunatly.)
But, Once you are saved. God works with you on those sins so that you can become stronger,so you can over come the temptation.
The fact of the matter is, Desire isn't the correct word.
So, I should have said " Christians don't want to sin. But, we still do. " Unfortunatly, We live in a sinful world..and we are sinful people.

I hope this makes sense to you Mister Opus. I would have made the message shorter,but this is the best I could do.

I'm not sure who asked me about this one, But. I think the question was asking why Jesus' entire life wasn't in the Bible? I know it's not the exact words. But, I think it was along the lines of that.

All over the Bible there are verses about Jesus' life. The reason only the last three years were magnified so much was because they mattered so much. I hope this answers your question.

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Originally posted by DigiNut I don't think there are any. Let's start one - here are the new 10 commandments: 1. I am the LORD Thy God. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me, with the following exceptions: Paul Bernardo, Jeffrey Dahmer, David Berkowitz, and Ted Kaczynski. 2. All who oppose the word of God, Bernardo, Dahmer, Berkowitz and Kaczynski shall be imprisoned and taunted for 12 years, then put to death by live embalming. 3. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, suchwith by making at least Three Human offerings to the LORD. 4. Thou shalt not kill, except in instances of (2) and (3); or whenst someone givest not thou their money; or whenst they refuseth to lie with thee; or whenst they looketh the wrong way at thee. 5. Thou shalt not steal without first checking to see that the Coast is Clear, or being suitably equipped with a weapon to Silence thy Witnesses. 6. Honor thy father and mother by fathering a child with thy mother and sending thy father into the Next Life. 7. Thou shalt not commit adultery without the due infliction of severe pain or death upon Thy partner. 8. Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbour's wife unless thou art prepared to take her by force; or by sword; or by Arson. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's Other Property without being prepared to Take or Destroy it. 9. Thou must eateth only the meat of thy fellow man; all who eat food from the Earth, or the Trees, or the Small Creatures, shall be put to death by catapult. 10. This is the word of the LORD; there can be no contradictions nor errors. Now... who wants to think of a name?

thats gold how about call it Christianity

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Originally posted by MrSquirrel When one is 16 you get into this phase of "I know everything and everyone else is stoopid" (we all did).

Ah, the memories. Come to think of it, I might have been on to something.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 When a person gets saved, they give their life to the Lord. We are still sinful people,and we still have sins we are weak to. (Everyone has sins they are weak to unfortunatly.) But, Once you are saved. God works with you on those sins so that you can become stronger,so you can over come the temptation. The fact of the matter is, Desire isn't the correct word. So, I should have said " Christians don't want to sin. But, we still do. " Unfortunatly, We live in a sinful world..and we are sinful people.

Wait, so Nellie is a born again Christian?

time for a repost to all those n00bs who missed it the first time, enjoy



John and Mary Pay a Visit This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?"

John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropists. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do what ever wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million
dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and he kicks the shit out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the
million dollars?"

John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

John: "Hank has certain 'connections.' "

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And
remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit of you."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you kiss his ass?"

John: "Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for your self."

John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on "From the desk of Karl" letterhead. There were eleven items listed:
From the desk of: KARL
1. Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't drink.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you.

Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's Letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hanks says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true too."

Me: "But 9 says 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from outer of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic. That's no different than saying 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking!"

Me: "But... oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary blushes. John says: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary looks positively stricken. John shouts: "There's no need for such
language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary sticks her fingers in her ears: "I am not listening to this. La la la la la la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary faints. John catches her: "Well, if I'd known you where one of those, I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you, I'll be there counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.
Ketchup anyone?

You guys know how the term "religious war" is used to denote pointless arguments that have no hope whatsoever of resolution, right? For example, (for the *nix users out there) the Emacs vs. Vi "holy war."

Well... those arguments are called "religious wars" for a reason.

And here we have an actual religious argument... do you folks seriously think this will be resolved? If not, why do you continue arguing? Think about it. Really.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I haven't read the bible since sunday school in 5th grade

I have never touched a bible in my life, and don't plan on doing so. For me, the bible belongs to the same category as evil alien socialist-fascist propaganda.

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