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-- Breaking: Shooting at Virginia Tech University
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To echo what others have said...

The problem is not gun control. It's not democracy. It's not "Freedom". It's not even Christianity this time. The problem lies in this fucked up nutopia of disappointing allure. This modern world of fear and violence and complete lack of control over the very machines we contribute to. Humanity is in pretty sad shape if you ask me - sure, people have been fucked by the establishment for as long as the establishment has been around, but never on this scale, and never with such enthusiastic embrace for ones own demise. This world is fucking sick, and for once it's not an issue of individuality - it's not a problem with 'some people' anymore, it's an issue with a system that is larger than human beings.

Maybe the problem is too much insulation - maybe it's not enough - maybe it's both, but there is definitely a knowledge deficit that keeps people unequal and it's not just a matter of 'what you know' so much as it is a matter of 'how much you are aware of'. Perhaps this has everything to do with the stupid fucking idiot bastard redneck population of any western society, perhaps it has more to do with the cowardly enlightened, the people too afraid to do anything about 'the situation' - but where does the blame lie? Media? Government? The President? Deluded people who have to go on murderous rampages in schools just to be fucking heard? What, exactly, is the problem?

It seems to me that there is a growing division between individual accountability and the influence of a society which has people spellbound and tranquilized by glittering visions of prosperous aspirations for dominance over oneself. How can people feasibly be held accountable for their actions in a world that does not want them to be individuals? It would seem as though, in America, ignorance and submission are the new competence. Those who try to exert control in any extreme are vilified and outcast; labeled as deranged, treated with caution rather than understanding, and so the cycle continues until their only release is...well, I'm sure you know by now.

This is not justification for mass homicide. But some people seem to have the notion that changing policies and laws and legislating MORE control over people will somehow lead to a happier, more safe world, when, in my opinion, that's simply not the case.

how about we all settle on more gun control along with increased mental health help.


eh.

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Originally posted by Boomer187 how about we all settle on more gun control along with increased mental health help. eh.

Because you cannot help people that do not want to be helped.

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Originally posted by Boomer187 how about we all settle on more gun control along with increased mental health help. eh.

I wish people would take both those, and all the other factors that lead to an event like this, into consideration. But usually they pick one, the one they know, and stick to it.

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Originally posted by Boomer187 how about we all settle on more gun control along with increased mental health help. eh.

I think we have to same extent think that people will be shot in the face. And if we ever finish correcting that, I'm sure some other lame atrocity will arise in its place, as phenomenal and sensation as the previous.

As much as we hate to admit it, the world is not going to be perfect.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Because you cannot help people that do not want to be helped.

well then, those mental health professionals / parents have their work cut out for them.

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Originally posted by Boomer187 well then, those mental health professionals / parents have their work cut out for them.

No. You shouldn't (and rightfully can not in the US) force any adult to do make any personal decision against their own will, even if it's killing them. Most people know they're harming themselves. If they decide to violate the lives of others, that's something else completely, and a social problem. People like this young man are one in a million, and as such do not pose an enormous threat to society as a whole.

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Originally posted by Fast Turtle No. You shouldn't (and rightfully can not in the US) force any adult to do make any personal decision against their own will, even if it's killing them. Most people know they're harming themselves. If they decide to violate the lives of others, that's something else completely, and a social problem. People like this young man are one in a million, and as such do not pose an enormous threat to society as a whole.

well yes, but what I am saying that the mental health pro / parent have got to get these people to want help, even when they do not want it. Not forcefully, but through talking and whatever else those people do. There has to be some way in which they can get at these troubled people before something like this happens. But as of right now, we are far far far away from that.

I never post in the COR. Mostly because I think you all are immature adolescents. For the thread of VA Tech shootings I will only say this: never in my life have I been more depressed than I am now. One of my friends is dead, another is in the hospital.

The most depressing part is that I have nothing to say.

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Originally posted by Spartan I never post in the COR. Mostly because I think you all are immature adolescents. For the thread of VA Tech shootings I will only say this: never in my life have I been more depressed than I am now. One of my friends is dead, another is in the hospital. The most depressing part is that I have nothing to say.

youre better than us, yet sadly you chose to vent your frustration here rather that at a meeting place that may have had value for your family or friends.

we are immature, you are the only affected|

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Switzerland has fully automatic assault rifles in over 10% of homes, yet its murder rate is nowhere near that of the U.S. Gun control is not the issue.

Nope, disagree. Swiss people after their army time are allowed to keep their weapons to defend their country, if necessary. And they are commonly misused. This is a problem for Switzerland, a HUGE one. They have 300 deaths each year and they know about it. Read here (in german only, sorry): http://www.nzz.ch/2006/12/16/il/newzzEVRX27ZZ-12.html

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Switzerland has fully automatic assault rifles in over 10% of homes, yet its murder rate is nowhere near that of the U.S.

I guess its about the mentality then ?

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Gun control is not the issue.

why do you people keep saying that, it obviously is one of the issuses here. If that dude didn't buy two guns so easily, he would have a tough time stabbing or suffocating 32 people

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Originally posted by stren I guess its about the mentality then ? why do you people keep saying that, it obviously is one of the issuses here. If that dude didn't buy two guns so easily, he would have a tough time stabbing or suffocating 32 people

Well he also could have made propane/pipe bombs out of household materials and killed many, many people. The intent to kill and the cause for extremely dissociative behaviour due to societal issues is a far more significant point than just mere gun control. And in any case, does 'gun control' mean restriction of or complete prohibition of private firearms? It's not like everyone in the US owns a gun, and it's certainly not like everyone in the US owns them legally. There are fairly strict guidelines for firearm ownership, but I think most people have known a few people who own guns illegally anyways.

I'm honestly not sure, but I don't think that, being in the US on a student visa (right?) he could legally buy a gun at his local Wal-Mart anyways. So if he didn't even obtain the weapons legally in the first place, what would stricter gun laws really do to affect situations like this?

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Well he also could have made propane/pipe bombs out of household materials and killed many, many people. The intent to kill and the cause for extremely dissociative behaviour due to societal issues is a far more significant point than just mere gun control. And in any case, does 'gun control' mean restriction of or complete prohibition of private firearms? It's not like everyone in the US owns a gun, and it's certainly not like everyone in the US owns them legally. There are fairly strict guidelines for firearm ownership, but I think most people have known a few people who own guns illegally anyways. I'm honestly not sure, but I don't think that, being in the US on a student visa (right?) he could legally buy a gun at his local Wal-Mart anyways. So if he didn't even obtain the weapons legally in the first place, what would stricter gun laws really do to affect situations like this?

that's why I said "one of the issues". Don't you think its easier to buy a gun at Wall Mart or wherever, then making a homemade bomb ?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN this is primarily a question of access to firearms.

You honestly think that if it had been harder to legally obtain a firearm, the guy wouldn't have gone through illegal means to find one?

You can't truly be that ignorant.

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Originally posted by Demoted You honestly think that if it had been harder to legally obtain a firearm, the guy wouldn't have gone through illegal means to find one? You can't truly be that ignorant.

It certainly would've been harder, sure if someone is hell bent on obtaining a gun, even a total ban on guns wouldn't stop him.

And then the question comes if guns ARE legal, then the guy would have been shot at first by a couple peeps with guns.

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Originally posted by Spartan I never post in the COR. Mostly because I think you all are immature adolescents. For the thread of VA Tech shootings I will only say this: never in my life have I been more depressed than I am now. One of my friends is dead, another is in the hospital. The most depressing part is that I have nothing to say.

No disrespect, and I truly am sorry for your loss, but initiating your post with a blanket insult really isn't going to earn you much sympathy.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Switzerland has fully automatic assault rifles in over 10% of homes, yet its murder rate is nowhere near that of the U.S. Gun control is not the issue.

The number of assult rifles in Switzerland is due to their policies regarding mandatory military service and the subsequent period of reserve service. The weapons belong to the military, not the individual and those individuals are trained in their use. Moreover, it's not like in some US states where any person can just toddle off and purchase a fire arm. Those who are provided weapons have undergone background checks and psychological evaluations prior to being trained, spending several years in the military and ultimately being added to the reserves.

Now, all the above aside, lack of gun control is not the cause of these problems that seem to be disporportionately present in the US, rather it is a compounding factor. What is the cause... I'm not sure, likelihood is there is a number of factors that contribute to the psychosis that seems to be prevelent amongst young men (primarally) in the US. What cannot be debated, however, is that if these young men did not have ready access to fire arms it is probable that the severity and frequency of mass murders would be dramatically decreased.

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Those who are provided weapons have undergone background checks...

Exactly what I think should happen with people who want to buy guns.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Exactly what I think should happen with people who want to buy guns.

Indeed... unfortunately that is not the case in all US states.... VA being one of them.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard The number of assult rifles in Switzerland is due to their policies regarding mandatory military service and the subsequent period of reserve service. The weapons belong to the military, not the individual and those individuals are trained in their use. Moreover, it's not like in some US states where any person can just toddle off and purchase a fire arm. Those who are provided weapons have undergone background checks and psychological evaluations prior to being trained, spending several years in the military and ultimately being added to the reserves.

But in Switzerland they still have lots of problems with shootings in family dramas as I wrote above with 300 killings each year - that is still a lot...

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Originally posted by Ojay But in Switzerland they still have lots of problems with shootings in family dramas as I wrote above with 300 killings each year - that is still a lot...

In the year 2000.... US homocide rate = 5.64/100,000; Swtizerland = 0.96/100,000. Doesn't look like the Swiss have a problem.

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Originally posted by Demoted You honestly think that if it had been harder to legally obtain a firearm, the guy wouldn't have gone through illegal means to find one? You can't truly be that ignorant.

It depends on the number of weapons floating around. Firearms are not implemented in german culture (or western European culture). Here in Germany almost nobody has one so it is also very difficult to get one illegally as nobody offers them. Also nobody even gets the idea (!) to ask for firearms so the illegal market is very small. It is really very difficult to get one. But sure, it IS possible and one of the very few school shootings here in Germany happened because the guy got his weapons illegally.

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Originally posted by UWM No disrespect, and I truly am sorry for your loss, but initiating your post with a blanket insult really isn't going to earn you much sympathy.

srsly.

Spartan that was completely unnecessary.

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