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Originally posted by Spam

check PM

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Originally posted by Spam Do you really think that Arab nations care about Palestine? Personally, I'm skeptical. If they did, wouldn't they have worked out an arrangement back in 1948, when this occurred: Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the 1949 Armistice Agreements between Israel and neighboring Arab states eliminated Palestine as a distinct territory. With the establishment of Israel, the remaining lands were divided amongst Egypt, Syria and Jordan. The Arab governments at this point refused to set up a State of Palestine. When was the last time an outside nation declared war on Israel because they were oppressing the Palestinians?

i never said they care about palestine.

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Originally posted by Spam Do you really think that Arab nations care about Palestine? Personally, I'm skeptical. If they did, wouldn't they have worked out an arrangement back in 1948, when this occurred: Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the 1949 Armistice Agreements between Israel and neighboring Arab states eliminated Palestine as a distinct territory. With the establishment of Israel, the remaining lands were divided amongst Egypt, Syria and Jordan. The Arab governments at this point refused to set up a State of Palestine. When was the last time an outside nation declared war on Israel because they were oppressing the Palestinians?

If what you say is true factually w the Arab governments refusing at that point to set up a state of palestine, HOW THE HELL can they complain now saying 'oh but we were there first, blah blah blah' when they could have sorted it all out legally/land wise etc before? (especially before it turned into a crazy religious issue...

i dont think there is a resolution to this at this time.
unless both sides agree to live together without any borders or walls which will never happen (maybe in 100 years, just like the collapse of berlin wall). Otherwise they will just keep killing each other just like it has been for decades.

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Originally posted by geroin i dont think there is a resolution to this at this time. unless both sides agree to live together without any borders or walls which will never happen (maybe in 100 years, just like the collapse of berlin wall). Otherwise they will just keep killing each other just like it has been for decades.

exactly....let them battle it out until they are ready for peace....unfortunately, civilians will die....its a part of war.

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty some of you are fucking short sighted big time. you think hamas is the cause of this ???? but yeah, its much easier to point finger

I hope you're not directing this comment at me. As I'm not trying to point fingers either way. I'm simply trying to understand some foolish decisions as I see them.

Thank you for that video. She actually seems very thoughtful and is good at pin-pointing what Israel does, and has done, wrong on their end. Unfortunately, it doesn't answer my question about why Hamas, and other militants in Palestine continue to try to pick fights with the more powerful nation, instead of direct attempts at peaceful diplomacy.

There's no necessity on Israel's part, they are the more powerful nation, and Palestinian attacks are a nuisance, but thus far, not debilitating. The necessity for peace rests on the Palestinian side. THEY are the ones suffering, that need help, and launching rockets at your oppressor is a fantastic way to become MORE oppressed. It doesn't make sense to me.

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Originally posted by Shade It's been done before, don't be surprised. To address your edit, if you were running a country, would you choose to take a route that ensures your soldiers don't get hurt or would you choose one which is rather high risk? If they're hiding INSIDE the school, the only way to really get rid of them is to break in - you're adding a huge risk for casualties on the Israeli side (and potentially kidnappings which Hamas loves to do).

STOP fuckin giving excuses for the Israeli terrorism against the people of Gaza.THERE IS NOWHERE TO HIDE GET IT? 1.5 million people living in a 350k radius.where the fuck can they hide?

fuckin Israeli apologists never stop with the propagandas.

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Originally posted by Endlesswave If what you say is true factually w the Arab governments refusing at that point to set up a state of palestine, HOW THE HELL can they complain now saying 'oh but we were there first, blah blah blah' when they could have sorted it all out legally/land wise etc before? (especially before it turned into a crazy religious issue...

For the same reason our democratic leaders promise us that they'll fix poverty, stop crime and 'fix our healthcare system for a generation'?

They pay lip-service to the issue for support, then throw money at it or do nothing to actually ensure what they say is carried out.

That excerpt was taken out of the same article Yohan posted in regards to your earlier question about Palestine's early existence.

So let me get this right,Israel thinks that somehow after the shit that the people in Gaza are going through now would want peace after?why the hell would they want to have peace with a bunch of killers?

would you want peace if you see things like this everyday?


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index....ext=va&aid=7942

(dont clickif you have weak stomach or cant handle the reality of war)

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer STOP fuckin giving excuses for the Israeli terrorism against the people of Gaza.THERE IS NOWHERE TO HIDE GET IT? 1.5 million people living in a 350k radius.where the fuck can they hide? fuckin Israeli apologists never stop with the propagandas.

doesnt change the fact that Hamas choose to hide in a school, regardless of circumstances.

lacking places to 'hide' is not an excuse to hide in mosque, hospital, school, whatever

life sucks when you're a terrorist, eh?

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer So let me get this right,Israel thinks that somehow after the shit that the people in Gaza are going through now would want peace after?why the hell would they want to have peace with a bunch of killers? would you want peace if you see things like this everyday? http://www.globalresearch.ca/index....ext=va&aid=7942 (dont clickif you have weak stomach or cant handle the reality of war)

Germany and Russia somehow made peace after WW2 and both sides did a lot of fucked up shit in that war

edit: peace as in co existing after the war

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Originally posted by Spam I hope you're not directing this comment at me. As I'm not trying to point fingers either way. I'm simply trying to understand some foolish decisions as I see them. Thank you for that video. She actually seems very thoughtful and is good at pin-pointing what Israel does, and has done, wrong on their end. Unfortunately, it doesn't answer my question about why Hamas, and other militants in Palestine continue to try to pick fights with the more powerful nation, instead of direct attempts at peaceful diplomacy. There's no necessity on Israel's part, they are the more powerful nation, and Palestinian attacks are a nuisance, but thus far, not debilitating. The necessity for peace rests on the Palestinian side. THEY are the ones suffering, that need help, and launching rockets at your oppressor is a fantastic way to become MORE oppressed. It doesn't make sense to me.

im not pointing fingers at you, im not pointing it at anybody.

its just frustrating... a lot of you is just repeating "hamas, hamas, hamas". thats not the real reason why is all this going down.

why is hamas doing what they're doing?? fuck me if i know. maybe they'd rather die than live like that. maybe they want "their" land back. maybe they have lots of balls or, maybe they just crazy. who knows.

but its a bitchass move to blame all this on them. it goes way, way back, before hamas existed.

200 kids killed. thats fair??

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer So let me get this right,Israel thinks that somehow after the shit that the people in Gaza are going through now would want peace after?why the hell would they want to have peace with a bunch of killers? would you want peace if you see things like this everyday? http://www.globalresearch.ca/index....ext=va&aid=7942 (dont clickif you have weak stomach or cant handle the reality of war)

these people are beinng subjected to this (if you want to know what i mean by "this", click on the link and look at the photos) and you think they are not going to go a little loopy?? i dunno about you but if i had to see people being blown up in front of me...i might turn a little hostile and aggresive..let alone..watching loved ones being blown up and murdered....and people wonder about the mindset of a suicide bomber..such basic psychology...

if i was living in Gaza right now..i would hate the jewish people and their government..i would detest them for what i and my people were going through....there are 1.5 million people in Gaza..imagine all the hate and anger that is being bred...

i'm sure we can all agree that the current situation is only going to make things worse..

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Originally posted by Yohan doesnt change the fact that Hamas choose to hide in a school, regardless of circumstances.

and it doesnt change the fact that Israel doesn give a flying fuck about innocent civillians loss.

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lacking places to 'hide' is not an excuse to hide in mosque, hospital, school, whatever

Somehow that makes it ok to bomb the living shit out of the city?
but then again they are all just a bunch of Arabs right?let them die.

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life sucks when you're a terrorist, eh?

life sucks when you are Israel and you know you cant beat ideology with fuckin bombs.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer STOP fuckin giving excuses for the Israeli terrorism against the people of Gaza.THERE IS NOWHERE TO HIDE GET IT? 1.5 million people living in a 350k radius.where the fuck can they hide? fuckin Israeli apologists never stop with the propagandas.

I agree 100%. But I would hope that a government that actually cares about their people would make wiser decisions, so as not to give reason for a more powerful military power to start dropping bombs when they know civilian casualties can't be avoided. Hamas, is NOT that government, and now the people they represent have to suffer while Israel takes advantage of their foolishness.

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Originally posted by Yohan no fucking shit. you suffer whenever one of your own dies. and as for which side suffers more, thats why I added that bit of qualifier at the end lol. where did the religion bit came from? thanks for trying to twist my words hard

Youre talking about JEWISH people being from that region becuase they are jewish.. and im brining up a parrallel analogy, that being, other religions and how people of other religions are not indegneous to where that religion began

Get it?

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Originally posted by Spam I agree 100%. But I would hope that a government that actually cares about their people would make wiser decisions, so as not to give reason for a more powerful military power to start dropping bombs when they know civilian casualties can't be avoided. Hamas, is NOT that government, and now the people they represent have to suffer while Israel takes advantage of their foolishness.

Your own people dont agree with what you guys are doing there......actually some have brains on the israeli side(only few)

Enjoy:-

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer and it doesnt change the fact that Israel doesn give a flying fuck about innocent civillians loss. Somehow that makes it ok to bomb the living shit out of the city? but then again they are all just a bunch of Arabs right?let them die. life sucks when you are Israel and you know you cant beat ideology with fuckin bombs.

again, I do not excuse Israeli actions

but you're trying to portray Hamas like they are innocent of all matters, hence my post

stop trying to divert the wrongs Hamas are doing by pointing finger back at what Israel is doing wrong

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Youre talking about JEWISH people being from that region becuase they are jewish.. and im brining up a parrallel analogy, that being, other religions and how people of other religions are not indegneous to where that religion began Get it?

oh I get it. you want to play semantics

fine. instead of jewish, how about hebrews? more acceptable?

if you're talking about european jews immigrating back to israel, i'm pretty sure israel's law of return means you have to have some sort of jewish ancestry (meaning, they are related by bloodline somehow to hebrews who used to live in modern day palestine)

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty but its a bitchass move to blame all this on them. it goes way, way back, before hamas existed.

I disagree. Every time the killing stops is a chance to start over and make peace. Looking back to the past only gives both sides more than enough ammunition to start pointing fingers and placing blame and building hate and animosity. Each ceasefire should be a new attempt at peace, but that simply isn't how it's carried out.

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200 kids killed. thats fair??

No, certainly not, but I feel that they DID give fair warning to Hamas, to stop launching rockets or face retaliation. But I don't feel that their tactics in retaliation have been fair at all. Targeting a UN school is incredibly sketchy to me.

Again though, while it's not entirely Hamas' fault, they DID have a chance to prevent this happening, and they declined that opportunity. To let Hamas off the hook completely for the decisions they made that led to this particular conflict would be just as wrong as letting Israel off for the horrible acts that they are committing.

Let's hope this new ceasefire proposal goes somewhere

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7814772.stm

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UN chief demands Gaza ceasefire UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has called for an immediate end to fighting in the Gaza Strip during a meeting of the UN Security Council in New York. Mr Ban criticised both Israel for its bombardment of Gaza and Hamas for firing rockets into Israel. The UN also heard a French-Egyptian ceasefire proposal, backed by the US and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas. Israel says it has agreed to set up a humanitarian corridor to allow aid into the Gaza Strip. Mr Ban said the Council had "primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security" and urged its members to act "swiftly and decisively to put this crisis to an end". He said the longer-term issues of Palestinian divisions must also be seriously addressed and called for the "urgent continuation of negotiations for a political solution". "We need urgently to achieve Palestinian unity and the reunification of Gaza with the West Bank within the framework of the legitimate Palestinian Authority," he said. More on link

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Originally posted by gummybear these people are beinng subjected to this (if you want to know what i mean by "this", click on the link and look at the photos) and you think they are not going to go a little loopy?? i dunno about you but if i had to see people being blown up in front of me...i might turn a little hostile and aggresive..let alone..watching loved ones being blown up and murdered....and people wonder about the mindset of a suicide bomber..such basic psychology...

when I say this people have nothing to live for I really mean it.
I would wanna fight back with all I have if I were them too.you think I would just sit back and pretend nothing happend?THINK again.

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if i was living in Gaza right now..i would hate the jewish people and their government..i would detest them for what i and my people were going through....there are 1.5 million people in Gaza..imagine all the hate and anger that is being bred...

This is what Israels tiny brains cant seem to get,why the fuck would these people want have peace with a bunch of killers who dont give a fuck about them?

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i'm sure we can all agree that the current situation is only going to make things worse..

This war will not achieve shit for Israel. It looks like they fucked up yet again just like they did in Lebenon 2 years ago.this war just created more enemies for Israel.GOOD JOB

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Originally posted by UmmiE Your own people dont agree with what you guys are doing there......actually some have brains on the israeli side(only few)

My own people? Please, I'm straight-up white Canadian. I agree that Israel is doing horrible things. Where we differ is that you hold Hamas blameless, and I place a portion of the blame on them, based on their foolish decision to continue bombing Israel when they had DAYS to stop while Israel said "Stop bombing us, or we will retaliate."

That was their chance, right there, to stop all of this current bloodshed from happening. And they rejected that opportunity. I would hope that my elected government of Canada, for instance, would not decide to launch rockets at the United States, while the US was warning my government to stop, or face retaliation. To continue would be foolish, and Hamas was either foolish, or they deliberately continued to provoke Israel to pursue a purpose that does not serve the Palestinian people.

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Originally posted by Spam To let Hamas off the hook completely for the decisions they made that led to this particular conflict..

i agree with you 100%. please dont think that im giving excuses for hamas in any way.

but those kids, they werent hamas, no matter what pictures diginut and/or yohan put up here.

and honestly, its really fucked up, even scary that some people here are saying "ok its wrong about the kids BUT....."

but??? whoah


almost 1000 people is dead. isnt that genocide or ethnic cleansing???

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty but those kids, they werent hamas, no matter what pictures diginut and/or yohan put up here.

I've heard a good quote the other day.

How do you train best killers? Start training and indoctrinating the kids early.
Just like those madrassahs in NW Pakistan, or rebel armies in Africa or Hitler Youth

You're right. Perhaps the kids aren't hamas.
Maybe they just want to look cool holding assault rifles

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