While the fed may or may not be incompetent, at least its real intentions are helpful (if democrats are in control). If you are somehow arguing that private business could be doing this better (which you are because you are a republican, even if you say you aren't thats a bold faced lie Kevin) then you are just as incompetent as anyone else you blame.
Posted by EddieZilker on Jul-01-2010 19:44:
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
While the fed may or may not be incompetent, at least its real intentions are helpful (if democrats are in control). If you are somehow arguing that private business could be doing this better (which you are because you are a republican, even if you say you aren't thats a bold faced lie Kevin) then you are just as incompetent as anyone else you blame.
This +1
Plus, waiving that act would have been an admission on BP's behalf that things had gone horribly, horribly wrong - an image they have tried to avoid in spite of the fact that avoiding it made it look worse. The bottom line is that, in many ways, this disaster has been run the way Republicans would have run it if they were in charge. By that, I mean by leaving BP as a controlling partner in disaster relief efforts. Republicans probably wouldn't have closed down all drilling in the gulf but in many respects, this disaster is the result of Washington's close personal relationships with corporations.
Corporations who tend to be a little heavier in donating to the campaign purses of Republican law-makers.
Posted by The17sss on Jul-01-2010 19:53:
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
While the fed may or may not be incompetent, at least its real intentions are helpful (if democrats are in control).
LOL... first of all, it's well established that they ARE incompetant. Secondly, your "either/or" statement is hilarious- Democrats have helpful intentions, Republicans do not. Even if that were true, good intentions do not and should not absolve someone of accountability for their incompetence. The real world runs on action and results, not intentions.
quote:
If you are somehow arguing that private business could be doing this better (which you are because you are a republican, even if you say you aren't thats a bold faced lie Kevin) then you are just as incompetent as anyone else you blame.
Let's frame that the other way around: if you are arguing that our politicans and government officials with no real world business experience or expertise in disaster cleenup, mitigation, heavy machinery operations, etc. can do a better job than the people who actually do that for a living, than YOU are the incompetant one. Private businesses could do it... if the stranglehold of regulations would be lifted and they'd actually be allowed to. Case in point: BP wants to use Kevin Costner's centrifuge machines, but the EPA is resisting because they only leave the water 99% clean when EPA regulations demand 99.895% cleanliness for the water being spit from the machines back into the Gulf. And when did I say I wasn't a Republican? Obviously I am... but I don't vote for anyone just because they are. Dude you live in a fog.
Posted by The17sss on Jul-01-2010 19:59:
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
The bottom line is that, in many ways, this disaster has been run the way Republicans would have run it if they were in charge. By that, I mean by leaving BP as a controlling partner in disaster relief efforts. Republicans probably wouldn't have closed down all drilling in the gulf but in many respects, this disaster is the result of Washington's close personal relationships with corporations.
Corporations who tend to be a little heavier in donating to the campaign purses of Republican law-makers.
The first paragraph is total speculation and has no bearing on the argument; Republicans aren't in office, end of story. You must not be aware that BP donated more to the Obama campaign than to any politician in the past 20 years, plus $500,000,000 to now Energy Secretary Stephen Chu's Univ. Cal's lab to fund the precursers to Cap and Trade legislation... which BP would profit from. Who's in who's pocket? The myth of Republicans garnering more money from corporations is just that... Obama raked in more from all the major banks and corporations than anyone, ever, in his campaign.
Posted by EddieZilker on Jul-01-2010 20:07:
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
The first paragraph is total speculation and has no bearing on the argument; Republicans aren't in office, end of story.
I'll even concede that a lot of deregulation was performed during the Clinton years - that even Clinton, himself, signed into law. To say that the past has nothing to do with the present is at best, a lie, and at worst, foolhardy.
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
You must not be aware that BP donated more to the Obama campaign than to any politician in the past 20 years, plus $500,000,000 to now Energy Secretary Stephen Chu's Univ. Cal's lab to fund the precursers to Cap and Trade legislation... which BP would profit from. Who's in who's pocket? The myth of Republicans garnering more money from corporations is just that... Obama raked in more from all the major banks and corporations than anyone, ever, in his campaign.
Actually, I am aware of that. But lets face it: Obama was going to win because the Bush administration was so amazingly incompetent. There was no amount of money that would ever have put McCain and Palin in the Whitehouse - particularly with their collective gaff level reaching epic proportions. If I were a corporation, looking out for my own interest, I certainly wouldn't be throwing my money in the direction of the losing team.
Posted by EarnYourKeep on Jul-01-2010 20:12:
more videos less debating
i need to see wtf is goin on down there not hear you guys bitch n moan at each other to see who is right or wrong
fact is situation is fucked up, just start fixing shit and not covering it up...fucking sad to see sand poured over tar balls on a beach
Posted by The17sss on Jul-01-2010 20:14:
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
I'll even concede that a lot of deregulation was performed during the Clinton years - that even Clinton, himself, signed into law. To say that the past has nothing to do with the present is at best, a lie, and at worst, foolhardy.
But... you were referring to events in the abstract; saying "what if" and "probably" just doesn't apply. You were talking about what would be happening if McCain/Palin were in office now, correct?
quote:
Actually, I am aware of that. But lets face it: Obama was going to win because the Bush administration was so amazingly incompetent. There was no amount of money that would ever have put McCain and Palin in the Whitehouse - particularly with their collective gaff level reaching epic proportions. If I were a corporation, looking out for my own interest, I certainly wouldn't be throwing my money in the direction of the losing team.
Bush was certainly incompetant in several ways. And I believe if McCain won the presidency, Republicans undoubtedly would be dead as a party. But the level of incompetence happening now is remarkable... worse than anyone imagined, especially after the "never again" Katrina speeches. Good point about companies not throwing their money in the direction of the losing team. Although, those same pople are having major buyers remorse now that they realize they've signed deals with the devil and are the Fed's bitches.
Posted by EddieZilker on Jul-01-2010 20:26:
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
But... you were referring to events in the abstract; saying "what if" and "probably" just doesn't apply. You were talking about what would be happening if McCain/Palin were in office now, correct?
You ironically answer this question when you posit the republican party would be dead if McCain had won?
I won't get into a dissertation about probabilities and why I used qualifiers in that particular vein of my argument.
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
Bush was certainly incompetant in several ways. And I believe if McCain won the presidency, Republicans undoubtedly would be dead as a party. But the level of incompetence happening now is remarkable... worse than anyone imagined, especially after the "never again" Katrina speeches. Good point about companies not throwing their money in the direction of the losing team. Although, those same pople are having major buyers remorse now that they realize they've signed deals with the devil and are the Fed's bitches.
My girlfriend probably is more in line with your views about this than I am. Perhaps I'm an idiot for giving him the benefit of the doubt but I think I have good reasons to. Not that some of your points aren't correct, but look at the mess that happened, not just eight years prior but even before Bush II ever took office. No one is going to be able to step into that position and clean it up making 'popular' decisions. It's not as though the Obama administration is walking down a sparkling path of gold with the well-wishes of BOTH Republicans and Democrats.
The fact is he's in probably one of the most polarized, divisive, and caustic political climates known to man. Even when Newt Gingrich was the mouth-piece for the Republican Party, I don't think I have ever seen it this bad. The Oil Spill is the cherry on the icing on the three-tier cake.
Posted by Ian on Jul-01-2010 20:31:
So have the yanks stopped linking BP as "british" even though it was 10 years ago, or do we have to call the president clinton and the year 2000?
Posted by EddieZilker on Jul-01-2010 20:35:
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
So have the yanks stopped linking BP as "british" even though it was 10 years ago, or do we have to call the president clinton and the year 2000?
Hey! Quit trying to dispel the self-soothing delusions which allow us to scape-goat an entire country (that we actually have good relations with) for the problems brought about by our own lack of foresight.
Jackass! Posted by Halcyon+On+On on Jul-01-2010 20:39:
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
do we have to call the president clinton and the year 2000?
Would you? Please?
Posted by Ian on Jul-01-2010 20:46:
quote:
Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Would you? Please?
It would be my pleasure. The last 10 years never happened. No GDJB, ASOT, LORD OF BASS or paperbag tits.
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
Hey! Quit trying to dispel the self-soothing delusions which allow us to scape-goat an entire country (that we actually have good relations with) for the problems brought about by our own lack of foreskin
Jackass!
Blaming the jews again? Posted by The17sss on Jul-01-2010 21:22:
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
You ironically answer this question when you posit the republican party would be dead if McCain had won?
I won't get into a dissertation about probabilities and why I used qualifiers in that particular vein of my argument.
haha... yeah that does sound funny doesn't it? I meant that regardless of who was in office this time, it would have been bad. If the Americn public put their faith in another Republican after Bush's 8 years (which weren't as bad as people like to exaggerate), and it stayed bad or got worse, then the vitriol that went against the GOP in 2008 would pale in comparison to 2012.
Posted by EddieZilker on Jul-01-2010 21:44:
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
haha... yeah that does sound funny doesn't it? I meant that regardless of who was in office this time, it would have been bad. If the Americn public put their faith in another Republican after Bush's 8 years (which weren't as bad as people like to exaggerate), and it stayed bad or got worse, then the vitriol that went against the GOP in 2008 would pale in comparison to 2012.
I think it depends on your view as to how bad it was. By 2003, Bush had made the last of the decisions I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on. I don't think it's ALL his fault. For such a gigantic mess, I think it took a lot of people making a lot of really bad decisions. I live in Michigan, now.
Having lived quite close to Atlanta, GA, it was almost given I would see five or more cars, on my way to work, with Bush/Cheney bumper stickers - and that was long after the re-election. Here in MI, there are still a few republican hold-outs with now obligatory One Big Ass Mistake, America stenciled on their much, much lower class, American cars. Most of the car models with Bush bumper stickers in Hotlanta, however, here have Obama/Biden.
To your point about it being bad in 2012 - I fully agree. In some ways it's reminiscent of the Carter administration where he comes in after Nixon, has a horrible time of it, and the American public is ready for another Republican president. Personally, I'm betting that's not going to happen but if it did, I wouldn't be surprised.
Posted by wing on Jul-02-2010 03:15:
"the companies have used, brace yourself, more 700,000 gallons of this chemical which is toxic to human beings"
"that is not the case with BP, we care about the small people" - bp chairman
^ words you could expect from one in a position of high reign
quote:
BP comment about 'small people' causes anger
We're not small people. We're human beings. They're no greater than us. We don't bow down to them. We don't pray to them," Taffinder said.
"These BP people I've met are good folks. I've got a good rapport with them," said Hanners, 74. "But BP does not care about us. They are so far above us. We are the nickel-and-dime folks of this world."
Asked about the BP chairman's remark, BP spokesman Toby Odone told The Associated Press in an e-mail that "it is clear that what he means is that he cares about local businesses and local people. This was a slip in translation."
Originally posted by The17sss
haha... yeah that does sound funny doesn't it? I meant that regardless of who was in office this time, it would have been bad. If the Americn public put their faith in another Republican after Bush's 8 years (which weren't as bad as people like to exaggerate), and it stayed bad or got worse, then the vitriol that went against the GOP in 2008 would pale in comparison to 2012.
If they bring in a republican in 2012 then in 2016 the republican party will cease to exist.
Vote GOP in 2012, for a brighter day after tomorrow after a shitty tomorrow.
Posted by we_R_DNA on Jul-02-2010 12:21:
i would like to learn more about the situation, but knowing people like we_R_DNA are complete fuckheads, it makes it difficult.
Posted by The17sss on Jul-02-2010 14:35:
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
If they bring in a republican in 2012 then in 2016 the republican party will cease to exist.
Vote GOP in 2012, for a brighter day after tomorrow after a shitty tomorrow.
Yes... because things are going so swimmingly with unchecked liberalism running amok right now. What we need is the whole nation to turn into Detroit.
Posted by Halcyon+On+On on Jul-02-2010 15:20:
Either side in absolute power would be disasterous. Don't you guys remember high school government class? Oh wait, Nou never went to high school, heeeeeeeeeee.
Posted by The17sss on Jul-02-2010 15:34:
quote:
Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Either side in absolute power would be disasterous. Don't you guys remember high school government class? Oh wait, Nou never went to high school, heeeeeeeeeee.
lol... are you joking? I can't tell. Did he get a G.E.D.? Posted by Halcyon+On+On on Jul-02-2010 15:39:
Yes, he earned a GED, just like a poor black person! SICK 'EM, KEV! GET THE SQUIRREL!! GET 'EM!!
Posted by The17sss on Jul-02-2010 16:01:
quote:
Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Yes, he earned a GED, just like a poor black person! SICK 'EM, KEV! GET THE SQUIRREL!! GET 'EM!!
GED: "Good Enough Diploma"
Posted by we_R_DNA on Jul-02-2010 20:30:
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i would like to learn more about the situation, but knowing people like we_R_DNA are complete fuckheads, it makes it difficult.
pkcRAISTLIN: you gota problem with me? well deal with it; cause this situation is far more grim to be overshadowed by some fuckhead like me;
Posted by jonSun on Jul-02-2010 21:46:
quote:
Originally posted by we_R_DNA
pkcRAISTLIN: you gota problem with me?
he wants to meet you after school to settle things out.
