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-- Another moral story out of Israel!
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Posted by Cracka-X on Apr-15-2003 02:07:

Is this not the same as a suicide bomber attacking innocent Israeli civilians o ya and children?


Posted by rupert on Apr-15-2003 08:32:

quote:
the incedent you talk of happened during the grapes of wrath operation in lebanon during 1996. an artillery shell was accedintely launched into a refugee camp. there were conflicting reports as to whether or not hizbollah were shooting out of that camp, but regardless i agree the situation needed to be handled more carefully. however just because of an accedinent or a mistaken judgement you can not conclude that the israeli governmenr or the IDF seek to intentially kill arabs. nor do they put the innocents value of life lower then that of their own.


Oh no you cant get away that easy. Yes, Hizbollah were firing on Israeli positions from near the UN base that is true. They share the blame for what happened for their callous disregard for the UN and the civilians in their care.

But it was no accident, the IDF fired on a UN position. They knew. They knew, it was deliberate and it wasnt the first time Israelis or their proxies deliberately attacked the UN in Lebanon. There was a remote spotter plane in the area which could see where the shells were landing.

A UN soldier handed over video footage clearly showing the remote spotter plane to Robert Fisk and they ran the story. But of course Israel always has an excuse. If it was arabs that shelled an Israeli village and completely slaughtered everyone we would never hear the end of it, but no with Israel its always a mistake, the UN lies, Amnesty International lies, the arabs lie.

I sometimes wish I was an Israeli because I would be a saint


Posted by ZinG on Apr-15-2003 13:24:

QANA MASSACRE:
quote:


THE DEADLY SECRET THAT LED TO BLOODBATH AT QANA
By Robert Fisk, The Independent,
Saturday 1 June 1996
Tyre�An Israeli army operation to plant booby-trap bombs inside the United Nations zone in southern Lebanon led to the Qana massacre last month in which well over 100 Lebanese civilians were killed by Israeli shells while sheltering in a UN base. It now emerges that the Israeli patrol which came under mortar fire from Hizbollah guerrillas on 18 April�the incident which led to the Qana bloodbath�had been tasked to leave plastic explosive charges and mines near the village of Henniyeh, about five miles from Qana.

The UN's official report, which suggested that the Israeli massacre of civilians was deliberate, quoted Brigadier General Dan Harel, the commander of the Israeli army's artillery corps, as saying that an Israeli patrol, whose location was not given, had come under mortar fire from the Qana area and that at least one round landed 40m from the Israeli troops. What had not hitherto been revealed was the task the Israeli soldiers had been engaged in, north of their occupation area and inside the UN zone, when they came under fire. A similar and even more complicated field of plastic mines and booby traps was left by Israeli soldiers close to the village of Bradchit in the UN's Irish battalion area at around the same time.

Shortly after the Israeli bombardment ended, it now transpires, Israeli officers met UN ordnance officers and handed them detailed maps of the booby traps and mines they had planted. Polish troops subsequently defused the booby traps at Henniyeh on a hilltop from which Katyusha rockets had been fired in the past, although the Irish army took longer to complete its disposal of the Bradchit minefield.

What has caused particular concern to UN personnel is that it was a roadside bomb in the village of Bradchit that killed a Lebanese teenager last month, an explosion which prompted the Hizbollah to blame Israel and fire Katyushas across the border into Galilee in retaliation. Shimon Peres said at the time that Israel had nothing to do with the Bradchit bombs and the Katyusha retaliation set off Israel's bloody Grapes of Wrath offensive. But the revelation that an Israeli unit was planting booby-trap devices in Bradchit and Henniyeh on 18 April has cast new doubt on Mr. Peres's denial.

Nor did another claim by Mr. Peres during his abortive campaign for re-election --that the Hizbollah fired rockets at Israel from within the UN compound at Qana --do anything to repair the cynical state of relations that now exist between Israel and the UN. Neither the Israeli army nor the UN believe that Hizbollah men opened fire on the Israelis from a UN position�the Hizbollah did so several 100 metres from the outer perimeter of the Qana camp�and UN officers are mystified as to why the Israeli Prime Minister should have made such a statement just before the election, when he must know that it is untrue.

It was election time in Israel, a security source in southern Lebanon commented. On such occasions, truth goes out the window.

The written ceasefire agreement that followed the end of the Israeli bombardment has meanwhile been rendered meaningless scarcely a day after Binyamin Netanyahu was elected Prime Minister.

The monitoring committee that was to have ensured that all parties complied with the truce terms has never met, and in the past three days the Hizbollah have killed four Israeli soldiers and two pro-Israeli militiamen inside the occupied zone of southern Lebanon. Since the ceasefire, the Israelis have also carried out three retaliatory air raids on Lebanon, without waiting for the truce committee to pronounce on Hizbollah attacks, as they are obliged to do under the truce agreement.

In an Israeli air raid on a Hizbollah arms dump near Baalbek before dawn yesterday, an attack which set off secondary explosions for an hour afterwards, three civilians were slightly wounded�another breach of the ceasefire terms, which state that civilians should not be harmed in any Israeli-Hizbollah battles inside Lebanon. Two civilians were also reported to have been wounded when the Hizbollah killed four Israeli soldiers at Marjayoun on Thursday.


quote:


Qana by Robert Fisk
Exerpted from an important series of articles written by reporter Robert Fisk and published in London's The Independent

QANA, SOUTHERN LEBANON -- It was a massacre. Not since Sabra and Chatila had I seen the innocent
slaughtered like this. The Lebanese refugee women and children and men lay in heaps, their hands or arms or legs
missing, beheaded or disemboweled. There were well over a hundred of them. A baby lay without a head. The
Israeli shells had scythed through them as they lay in the United Nations shelter, believing that they were safe
under the world's protection. Like the Muslims of Srebrenica, the Muslims of Qana were wrong.

In front of a burning building of the UN's Fijian battalion headquarters, a girl held a corpse in her arms, the body
of a gray-haired man whose eyes were staring at her, and she rocked the corpse back and forth in her arms,
keening and weeping and crying the same words over and over: "My father, my father." A Fijian UN soldier stood
amid a sea of bodies and, without saying a word, held aloft the body of a headless child.

The Israelis have just told us they'll stop shelling the area, a UN soldier said, shaking with anger. "Are we
supposed to thank them?" In the remains of a burning building -- the conference room of the Fijian UN
headquarters -- a pile of corpses was burning. The roof had crashed in flames onto their bodies, cremating them in
front of my eyes. When I walked towards them, I slipped on a human hand...

Israel's slaughter of civilians in this terrible 10-day offensive -- 206 by last night -- has been so cavalier, so
ferocious, that not a Lebanese will forgive this massacre. There had been the ambulance attacked on Saturday,
the sisters killed in Yohmor the day before, the 2-year-old girl decapitated by an Israeli missile four days ago.
And earlier yesterday, the Israelis had slaughtered a family of 12 -- the youngest was a four- day-old baby --
when Israeli helicopter pilots fired missiles into their home.

Shortly afterwards, three Israeli jets dropped bombs only 250 meters from a UN convoy on which I was
traveling, blasting a house 30 feet into the air in front of my eyes. Traveling back to Beirut to file my report on the
Qana massacre to the Independent last night, I found two Israeli gunboats firing at the civilian cars on the river
bridge north of Sidon.

Every foreign army comes to grief in Lebanon. The Sabra and Chatila massacre of Palestinians by Israel's militia
allies in 1982 doomed Israel's 1982 invasion. Now the Israelis are stained again by the bloodbath at Qana, the
scruffy little Lebanese hill town where the Lebanese believe Jesus turned water into wine.

. . . The blood of all the refugees ran quite literally in streams from the shell-smashed UN compound in which the
Shiite Muslims from the hill villages of southern Lebanon -- who had heeded Israel's order to leave their homes --
had pathetically sought shelter. Fijian and French soldiers heaved another group of dead -- they lay with their
arms tightly wrapped around each other -- into blankets.

A French UN trooper muttered oaths to himself as he opened a bag in which he was dropping feet, fingers, pieces
of people's arms.

And as we walked through this obscenity, a swarm of people burst into the compound. They had driven in wild
convoys down from Tyre and began to pull the blankets off the mutilated corpses of their mothers and sons and
daughters and to shriek Allahu Akbar (God is Great") and to threaten the UN troops.

We had suddenly become not UN troops and journalists but Westerners, Israel's allies, an object of hatred and
venom. One bearded man with fierce eyes stared at us, his face dark with fury. "You are Americans," he
screamed at us. "Americans are dogs". You did this. Americans are dogs."

President Bill Clinton has allied himself with Israel in its war against "terrorism," and the Lebanese, in their grief,
had not forgotten this. Israel's official expression of sorrow was rubbing salt in their wounds. "I would like to be
made into a bomb and blow myself up amid the Israelis," one old man said.

As for the Hizbollah, which has repeatedly promised that Israelis will pay for their killing of Lebanese civilians, its
revenge cannot be long in coming. Operation Grapes of Wrath may then turn out to be all too aptly named.

Herve de Charette's face was as white as death. The French Foreign Minister, neatly clad in blue suit and tie, had
gingerly walked through the scene of last week's massacre at the UN's compound, nodding diplomatically as the
UN's Fijian commander described the 12 minutes in which Israeli shells slaughtered up to 120 refugees, the
sliced-up corpses that his soldiers were forced to pick up, the difficulty in identifying parts of the children who had
been torn to pieces. Mr. de Charette listened with distaste. But then he was confronted by a survivor.

Fawzaya Zrir, a small, frail woman in a scarf, simply walked up to the French Foreign Minister and began talking
to him with an odd mixture of affection and anger. "For us, France is our mother and God is our father," she said
in a flight of rhetoric that might have been written by the Quai d'Orsay public relations men, who beamed happily
at this fortunate encounter.

Then things began to go wrong. "We have lived through hell," Mrs. Zrir continued. "The people were chopped
into pieces by the Israeli bombs. They bleed, these people. You should have seen the heads."

At the French foreign minister's right, a Lebanese softly translated the woman's dreadful words. The PR men
began to look uneasy. "We have lived here 40 years and now we are treated like animals," the woman cried. "Do
you know what the dogs did at night after the killings? They were hungry and I saw them in the ruins eating fingers
and pieces of our people."

Mr. de Charette stared at her as if he had seen a ghost. This had clearly not been part of the programme, a
schedule that was supposed to have whisked the foreign minister from a light lunch at UN headquarters in
Naqqoura to a photo-opportunity on the roof of the wrecked UN battalion HQ, a three-minutes press conference
to give the impression of openness and a swift drive back to the coast and a helicopter to Beirut -- everything, in
fact, that would enhance France's much-trumpeted love for Lebanon. Reality had very definitely not been part of
the programme.

A UN soldier was quite blunt about it. "This place is going to be turned into one of those awful pilgrimage sites for
the great and the good," he muttered. "Boutros-Ghali sent his emissaries today to express their horror. But they'll
do no more than they did after Srebrenica. They'll tut-tut and shrug it off. They won't even have the guts to
condemn Israel even now -- for this wickedness."

The problem... is that neither America nor Europe is going to condemn a country which pounded refugees of
Qana with 155mm shells for 12 minutes; and such condemnation is about the only palliative that the Lebanese
might accept for the moment.

And you can see their point. On the coast road back to Beirut last night there were burning cars, civilians
deliberately targeted by Israeli warships north of Sidon, three of whom had been badly wounded. Had this being a
Syrian warship shelling Israeli civilians on the Haifa-Tel Aviv road, of course, Mr. Clinton himself would have
deplored -- rightly -- an act of "international terrorism."

But not a word of criticism about this scandalous targeting of Lebanese civilians was uttered by the foreign
ministers of America, Russia, France and Italy as they sought to bring an end to an apparently unstoppable war.


quote:


Indignation of an Israeli Writer: Ari Shavit

Cana: 102 Faceless Dead

We killed 170 people in Lebanon, most of whom were refugees, during the month of April, 1996. Many of them were women, old people and children. We killed 9 civilians, one a 2 year old girl and one, a centenarian, in Sahmour, on April 11th. We killed 11 civilians, including 7 children, in Nabatyeh, on April 18th. In the UN Camp in Cana, we killed 102 people. We made sure to inflict death from a distance. In a very secular manner, without the archaic idea of sin, without the antediluvian worry to consider man in the image of God, and without the primitive proscription, "You shall not kill!"

Our solid alibi is that we are responsible for nothing, that the responsibility falls on Hezbollah. A most doubtful alibi. For when we decided to launch a massive attack on the civilian region of South Lebanon (while Israel ran no vital risk), we decided, ipso facto, to spill the blood of X number of civilians. When we decided to drive half a million people out of their homes and to shell those who remained behind (while in Israel, we did not have one single victim), we decided, in fact, to execute several dozen of them. This (alibi) allowed us to make such cruel decisions without seeing ourselves as rotten.

We killed them because the increasingly wider gap between the sacrosanct character that we attribute to our own lives and the more limited character we give to theirs, allowed us to kill. We believe, in the most absolute manner, with the White House, the Senate, the Pentagon, and the New York Times on our side, that their lives do not have the same weight as ours. We are convinced that with Dimona (Israel's atomic site), Yad Vashem and the Shoah Museum in our hand, we have the right to compel 400,000 people to evacuate their homes in 8 hours. And we have the right, at the end of 8 hours, to consider their homes as military targets. And we reserve the right to rain 16,000 shells on their villages and their populations. And we reserve the right to kill without any guilt feelings.

But all this cannot alleviate the gravity of the massacre, Israeli style, and our responsibility for its execution. For it is perpetrated, in general, in places to which we give free range to immoderate violence.

The shelling of Cana was executed according to the rules, orders and objectives of operation, "Grapes of Wrath." There is something wrong in these rules, orders and objectives. Something that is no longer human. Something that touches on the criminal.

And all of us, without exception, were an integral part of this machine. The public supported the media, who supported the government, who supported the Chief of Staff, who supported the inquiry officer, who supported the officers, who supported the soldiers who fired the three shells that killed 102 in Cana.

Nothing can prevent Cana from becoming an integral part of our biography. Because, after Cana, we did not denounce the crime, we did not want to subject the affair to the eyes of the law, we merely wanted to deny the horror and go on with our current affairs. That is how Cana is part of ourselves -- like one of the features of our face.

As the massacre perpetrated by Baruch Goldstein (in the Cave of the Patriarchs on Muslims while praying) and the crime committed by Ygal Amir (like the reactions to them) were manifestations of rotten seeds in the heart of the national-religious culture, the massacre of Cana is no less extreme a grain of rottenness in the heart of secular Israeli culture: its cynicism, brutality, instrumentalism, egocentrism of the powerful; this tendency to blur the frontier between good and evil, between permitted and prohibited; this tendency not to require justice, not to care about truth.

The manner in which contemporary Israel has functioned during and after Cana shows that modern, rational Israeli life conceals a terrifying aspect.

Ari Shavit/Haaretz/New York Times Syndication. Ari Shavit is a writer and columnist of the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. He lives in Jerusalem. (Translated from Hebrew in "Liberation" of May 21, 1996.)


Posted by ZinG on Apr-15-2003 13:29:

For those who think its worth reading about UN report on Qana massacre: http://home.no.net/norplt/unreport.html

Sorry guys


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