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-- Got Milk!?!? U Better Hope Not!
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quote:

anyway think about it like this, your basically drinking the secretions of another species.

Same as when you eat honey or juice. Besides, what else would you eat except other species and their secretions? It's how the food cycle works.

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milk is simply a substance to help baby cows grow- humans arent supposed to drink it.

Yes, it is a substance which helps baby cows grow. BUT, it is also a substance which helps baby humans grow as well. Also, there is one big difference between humans (whites, asians and most blacks don't posses the following ability) and other species. Most other species loose their ability to consume lactose soon after their childhood, because their bodies stop producing the enzyme which breaks up lactose. White humans have developed a genetic defect which makes them produce that enzyme for their whole life, which in turn makes them able to consume and use up milk even after their childhood phase has passed. So in a way, it is natural for some humans to drink milk even after their childhood, as thousands of years of domestication have resulted in this adaptation.

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Originally posted by OLi_A anyway think about it like this, your basically drinking the secretions of another species. ive only thought about it in the past cpl years but its damn right wrong jus my $0.02

Hmm..if you think that's wrong, then I'll make you aware of many other "damn right wrong things" you are doing, like eating anything.

If drinking milk is "basically drinking the secretions of another species," then what is eating meat?? You are eating the dead flesh of another sentient animal!!! So the next time you chew that nice juicy hot dog, you should realize that that "juiciness" is nothing less than the "secretions" of that animal - including blood, sweat, adrenaline, and even urine.

Oh that's not all. If drinking milk is "basically drinking the secretions of another species" then what is eating plants?? You are also eating a dead organism!

But.. when you kiss a girl, what are you doing?? You are basically shoving your tongue in her mouth, and you two are sharing your secretions from the mouth! Complete with thousands of bacteria and whatnot that is in the mouth!!!!

When you breathe, you are also breathing in microscopic pollen, depending on your area, and bacteria, and other pollutants, disgusting when you think about it!!! And let's not get into water.

So what to do?

Easy. Don't eat, don't drink, don't kiss women, hell, don't even breathe.

- To that person who said yogurt actually slows down metabolism, mmm go do your homework man. Yogurt is what turns on those cells which speed up your metabolism, helping you burn off fat, calories etc etc etc ... WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE TOLD TO EAT YOGURT?!?! oohh WAIT!! NOO it's a CONSPIRACY!!!

Think about the vegetables, fruits you eat, they are full of chemicals and crap!! yet, there's no conspiracy about it?

( CHemicals cause of desinfectants and preservatives )

This is rather refreshing. Usually I'm the one bitching about how stuff is more often than not just a conspiracy theory

Whats more natural: to drink milk or coke?

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Originally posted by St�phanie_M Whats more natural: to drink milk or coke?

obviously milk if your talking about what is suposedly natural.

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Originally posted by Mental Exodus obviously milk if your talking about what is suposedly natural.

exactly!
Well if drinking a lil coca-cola wont kill you then i cant see how milk can be so harmful..the way that research is going...drinking milk has become a poison...its ridiculous!

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Originally posted by Alccode Hmm..if you think that's wrong, then I'll make you aware of many other "damn right wrong things" you are doing, like eating anything.

pretty radical ideas you got there buddy. i was actually talking about the fact that people claim to be healthy just because they drink milk.
you suck on your mothers teat only in the first years of your life then she stops producing milk because you can get your nutrients from other foods. "dont eat anything" hmmmm thanks for the suggestion, ill keep it in mind

quote:

Originally posted by OLi_A pretty radical ideas you got there buddy. i was actually talking about the fact that people claim to be healthy just because they drink milk. you suck on your mothers teat only in the first years of your life then she stops producing milk because you can get your nutrients from other foods. "dont eat anything" hmmmm thanks for the suggestion, ill keep it in mind

Hahaha, sorry about that, maybe a bit harsh.

I see what you're saying. However, (IMO) :

There really is no such thing as "natural" and "unnatural", if you like it, then eat/consume it, or whatever.

I mean, just look at our lives and our society. If we want to play the "what is natural" game, then we can safely write off ALL of our civilization, as it is clearly unnatural in the extreme, all of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode Hmm..if you think that's wrong, then I'll make you aware of many other "damn right wrong things" you are doing, like eating anything. If drinking milk is "basically drinking the secretions of another species," then what is eating meat?? You are eating the dead flesh of another sentient animal!!! So the next time you chew that nice juicy hot dog, you should realize that that "juiciness" is nothing less than the "secretions" of that animal - including blood, sweat, adrenaline, and even urine. Oh that's not all. If drinking milk is "basically drinking the secretions of another species" then what is eating plants?? You are also eating a dead organism! But.. when you kiss a girl, what are you doing?? You are basically shoving your tongue in her mouth, and you two are sharing your secretions from the mouth! Complete with thousands of bacteria and whatnot that is in the mouth!!!! When you breathe, you are also breathing in microscopic pollen, depending on your area, and bacteria, and other pollutants, disgusting when you think about it!!! And let's not get into water. So what to do? Easy. Don't eat, don't drink, don't kiss women, hell, don't even breathe.

And, don't go to the bathroom in your favorite club, wash your hands with antibacterial soap every time you are near a sink.... The environment of fear. Advertisers, governments alike have found that the easiest way to control people is fear.

Fear of disease--->Buy this product
Fear of evil--->Support this president
Fear of the unknown--->Suport this God
Fear of crime--->Move to the suburbs
Fear of reality--->Watch this TV show
Fear of freedom--->Support those who "watch over you"

There's so much I should be afraid of, I couldn't possibly enjoy life if I listened to it all.

In the words of the true patriots, "Live free or die."

And I will...

While it's highly doubtful that consuming milk in anything short of absurd quantities would have significant serious adverse effects on one's health, the evidence suggesting it has profound beneficial effects is equally unscientific.

The haste with which so many of you have rushed to defend milk without any valid evidence to support your hypotheses belies the fundamental basis of your beliefs - blind faith. You ridicule notmilk's assertions, and yet provide far less evidence to support yours. You fallaciously appeal to common belief, vaguely defined pseudoscientific "studies", and ludicrous notions of "personal experience."

If you've so easily been convinced beyond doubt of the glorious power of milk while remaining so oblivious to any factual data regarding the issue, perhaps you'd be interested in purchasing my patented immortality potion. It works. I swear.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter While it's highly doubtful that consuming milk in anything short of absurd quantities would have significant serious adverse effects on one's health, the evidence suggesting it has profound beneficial effects is equally unscientific. The haste with which so many of you have rushed to defend milk without any valid evidence to support your hypotheses belies the fundamental basis of your beliefs - blind faith. You ridicule notmilk's assertions, and yet provide far less evidence to support yours. You fallaciously appeal to common belief, vaguely defined pseudoscientific "studies", and ludicrous notions of "personal experience." If you've so easily been convinced beyond doubt of the glorious power of milk while remaining so oblivious to any factual data regarding the issue, perhaps you'd be interested in purchasing my patented immortality potion. It works. I swear.

we need an 'Ask Arbiter' forum...or a big graphic that says 'Ask Arbiter or shut the hell up'

not that i mean to pimp idiots on you. you just seem to convey the obvious most of the time, and its a respected quality often beyond most people here|

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter While it's highly doubtful that consuming milk in anything short of absurd quantities would have significant serious adverse effects on one's health, the evidence suggesting it has profound beneficial effects is equally unscientific. The haste with which so many of you have rushed to defend milk without any valid evidence to support your hypotheses belies the fundamental basis of your beliefs - blind faith. You ridicule notmilk's assertions, and yet provide far less evidence to support yours. You fallaciously appeal to common belief, vaguely defined pseudoscientific "studies", and ludicrous notions of "personal experience." If you've so easily been convinced beyond doubt of the glorious power of milk while remaining so oblivious to any factual data regarding the issue, perhaps you'd be interested in purchasing my patented immortality potion. It works. I swear.

It's funny, though, how every doctor, nurse, and health professional I've ever asked has sworn up and down that milk is good for you. Comparing milk to "immortality potion" is preposterous, ridiculous, and downright insane. I can't believe this thread was ever started.

You want proof?!? Here:

http://www.teagasc.ie/news/2003/200302-28.htm

http://www.albertamilk.com/dnca/info4.htm

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/nycu/h...health/milk.htm

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/milk/

http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/Handou...um/calcium.html

http://www.doitwithdairy.com/ingred...innonfatnut.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/nutriti...ics_dairy.shtml

http://www.dairycouncilutnv.org/healthprofs.html

http://www.bcdf.org/milk_and_your_health.html

http://www.idfa.org/news/gotmilk/2002/jama.cfm

http://www.idfa.org/facts/milk/milkfact/milk5.pdf

http://www.aedairy.com/healthnews.html

http://www.acsh.org/press/releases/milk100699.html

http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org...digest_707d.htm

http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T431457.html

http://www.principalhealthnews.com/topic/1727

http://www.fass.org/fasscience/dairyfoods.asp

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9809/22/c...ncer/index.html

This list could go on forever....

quote:

Originally posted by cougar23 It's funny, though, how every doctor, nurse, and health professional I've ever asked has sworn up and down that milk is good for you. Comparing milk to "immortality potion" is preposterous, ridiculous, and downright insane. I can't believe this thread was ever started. You want proof?!? Here: http://www.teagasc.ie/news/2003/200302-28.htm

Teagasc
In 1988, Teagasc, the Agriculture and Food Development Authority, was established as the national agency with overall responsibility for the provision of research, training and advisory services to the agriculture and food industry. It incorporated the training functions of the Agricultural Institute. The rationale for this was that considerable benefit could be derived from the co-ordination and integration of the research service with the training and advisory services.
-from the site

this is a govt site related to the 'responsibility' of the ariculture industry- of course they would tell you milk is good, theyre trying to sell it!

quote:

http://www.albertamilk.com/dnca/info4.htm

this site wont give links to any background information so it is pretty useless. it says alberta milk tho, so im sure its just the dairy farmers for alberta- again, more biased info...

quote:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/nycu/h...health/milk.htm

In the end, milk is not quite the miracle food the dairy industry makes it out to be nor the toxic substance the antidairy groups claim. For most people, though, its pluses still outweigh its more speculative minuses.
-from the article

first of all, this sentence disputes what most of you milk lovers have been saying. and most of the rest of the article deals with drinking soft drinks over milk. obviously refined sugar is worse than milk fat. not completely, but still worse.

quote:

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/milk/

If you have questions that relate specifically to foods, medications, or over-the-counter drugs, you should visit the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) website.
-your real source here

this is the most ligitimate site so far, but i dont believe that 2 paragraphs of text per subject constitute a thorough study of milk.

quote:

http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/Handou...um/calcium.html

this site makes milk and dairy products look pretty good, but then again it says you can eat vegetables and/or rolaids and get the same effect.

quote:

http://www.doitwithdairy.com/ingred...innonfatnut.htm

non fat *dry* milk- this site has some nutritional values for this product, but i dont think that dry milk is the only thing we are talking about. oh yah-


read the blue text...they couldnt be selling milk could they?

quote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/nutriti...ics_dairy.shtml...

in looking for a response to this BBC page i stumbled on a page with *sources* that undermines your arguement, again- like i said...with sources.

then again these arent sources that can be obtained on the net with 5 mins of staring blankly. they are studies and literature. heres the site...

http://www.4.waisays.com/

heres a summary for those with no attention span...

http://www.4.waisays.com/summary.htm

considering i found this is 2 seconds, and it is infintely better than your 'limitless' sources. i dont know what to say. maybe you should just read the site and open your mind. i drink milk occasionally and certainly eat dairy products, but that doesnt mean im not open to scientific fact|

quote:

Originally posted by biznology then again these arent sources that can be obtained on the net with 5 mins of staring blankly. they are studies and literature. heres the site... http://www.4.waisays.com/ heres a summary for those with no attention span... http://www.4.waisays.com/summary.htm considering i found this is 2 seconds, and it is infintely better than your 'limitless' sources. i dont know what to say. maybe you should just read the site and open your mind. i drink milk occasionally and certainly eat dairy products, but that doesnt mean im not open to scientific fact|

What about the sites that state the reduced risk of colon cancer, the reduced risk of obesity, etc... Sure some of the sites were from pro-milk sources, but most of them cited real studies in their content. And you say that the real source is the FDA. I suggest going there, because in all of it's literature, it suggests having 2-3 servings of dairy per day. And I don't think that the FDA is in on this "conspiracy."

Additionally: Your site is well cited, but it says little about milk. The whole argument is not that "milk is bad," the argument is that too much calcium is bad. I only drink 3 or 4 glasses of milk a week. Combined with the cheese I eat, this puts me right at the healthy level, according to your site. So any further arguments it presents are invalid, in my personal case.

The original post made milk look like a poison, which clearly it is not; I'm sure both you and I agree. I'm also sure that the benefits of milk have been overstated by the dairy farming agencies, but to suggest that milk is "bad" for you just because some benefits have been overstated is ridiculous. Milk's benefits go far beyond calcium, though, as other sites I cited reveal.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter While it's highly doubtful that consuming milk in anything short of absurd quantities would have significant serious adverse effects on one's health, the evidence suggesting it has profound beneficial effects is equally unscientific.

By placing the "really bad" theory of milk against the "really good" you are stating that the "good" is just as extreme as the "bad". But no one has argued that milk has "profound beneficial effects". It is said that milk has positive health benefits, not that it will make you live forever, which is what you are trying to make it look like.

Now, if you're going to argue against even "positive benefits," are you then saying that an entire industry of health professionals are wrong? Or somehow purposely trying to deceive everyone else? That is paranoid thinking, I'd say.

quote:

The haste with which so many of you have rushed to defend milk without any valid evidence to support your hypotheses belies the fundamental basis of your beliefs - blind faith. You ridicule notmilk's assertions, and yet provide far less evidence to support yours. You fallaciously appeal to common belief, vaguely defined pseudoscientific "studies", and ludicrous notions of "personal experience."

Have you even been to notmilk's site?? It's quite hilariously ridiculous.

quote:

If you've so easily been convinced beyond doubt of the glorious power of milk while remaining so oblivious to any factual data regarding the issue, perhaps you'd be interested in purchasing my patented immortality potion. It works. I swear.

Again, no one is saying that milk is an "immortality potion." What people are trying to say here is that milk is not "poison."

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode By placing the "really bad" theory of milk against the "really good" you are stating that the "good" is just as extreme as the "bad". But no one has argued that milk has "profound beneficial effects". It is said that milk has positive health benefits, not that it will make you live forever, which is what you are trying to make it look like.

Of course it has "positive health benefits". Almost anything you could consume would have some beneficial effect on one or more of your body's systems. However, this does not suffice to categorize that substance as "healthy." Notmilk clearly does not argue that consuming a few glasses of milk is going to kill you. They do present their facts in a manner which fails to accurately depict the positive and negative effects milk might have on your body, but only slightly more so than the dairy industry has...

quote:

Again, no one is saying that milk is an "immortality potion." What people are trying to say here is that milk is not "poison."

No, but many individuals in this thread have broadly attributed great health and vitality of themselves or others to milk, clearly confusing correlation with causality. Such fallacious reasoning is often associated with magical thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter No, but many individuals in this thread have broadly attributed great health and vitality of themselves or others to milk, clearly confusing correlation with causality. Such fallacious reasoning is often associated with magical thinking.

Well, I wouldn't consider attributing my lack of cavities and broken bones to milk drinking such a breech of the "correlation, not causality" rule. I wouldn't simply believe in the causality of this situation unless I had a bundle of scientific fact to back it up. But the fact is, there is scientific evidence suggesting a relationship greater than correlation in this instance. Debating the validity of this evidence is another matter (one which seems to be fueled by conspiracy theories and paranoid thinking).

And when I say I have healthy bones and teeth, am I proclaiming "great health and vitality?" Hardly not, that is not what I said or meant. I said what I said, your mind twisted it into a proclaimation of "great health." I can understand your reaction to the distorted truth of the "got milk" campaign, but be sure not to react too much, and label milk as "not healthy" simply because its benefits have been overstated by interest groups.

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