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-- Matrix: Reloaded (PLEASE DO NOT OPEN UNLESS U SAW THE MOVIE)
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| Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee well compare matrix 1 to this..thers real action only in the end..which was good..matrix is meant to be a mindfuck.. |
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| Originally posted by dEsidEL that's the thing .. i know it's hard not to compare the movie to its predecessor but if you do it won't make it seem that great. the thing is this movie is basically 1/2 of the 2 part story .. so it's hard to judge it solely on its own. i think a more fair comparisson can be made as soon as Revolutions is out.. |
Yeah.....I saw this on thursday and I had mixed feelings. The first one was done so damn well that Reloaded had a lot of expectations to meet and as a whole, I don't think it did the job.
The first scene where Trinity is falling in slow motion went on for like 3 minutes...WTF? The whole Zion stuff was pretty shitty....the new Operator guy was so "invented" for comedic relief....what happened to Tank? Morpheus' speech to Zion was ridiculous and I think Fishburne felt like an idiot reading those lines. The Rave scene, if you can call it that....was REEEEETAAAARRRRDDDDDEEEDDD!!
Oh, and the Neo vs. 50 Agent Smiths fight was pointless, because he just flew off in the end. Why didn't he fly off when he saw the first 5 or 6 coming? PLOT HOLE....oh, and that fight looked like total shit. I thought i was watching a cartoon for fuck's sake!! Talk about doing a George Lucas with over use of computer effects!
The other fights were well done, especially the highway scene, which was VERY COOL indeed.
Am I the only person who thought that ending was stupid? It cuts to that guy and then....the music goes DA DAA DAAAA and it's over. CHEESEY.
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Oh, and the Neo vs. 50 Agent Smiths fight was pointless, because he just flew off in the end. Why didn't he fly off when he saw the first 5 or 6 coming? PLOT HOLE.... |
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| Originally posted by dEsidEL maybe he thought that he could kill the first 10 .. until it became 100, he just gave up .. |
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 well....it's still a pointless scene which looked like total shit. Why abandon the wire technology that worked so well for CGI instead? It looked so bad that I actually started laughing in the theatre and people started laughing with me when it really started looking cartoonish. If this movie beats out Return of the King for Best Visual Effects, I'll never watch the Oscars again. |
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| Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee i watched it last night, MIND BLOWING...my mind was sittin outside me for most part just to keep pace.... was funny how some others didnt understand what was so great about there being one survivor and then they showed who the survivor was.... some people didnt get that and when i explained they go :O IMO, if they laid off the romance bit, it would be far better tihngs that needed more thought while puttin in the script itself: 1)the fuckin rave in Zion when they just hear that the city is gonna crumble...wtf was that 2) Neo flew 4 times out of which the first one was unnecessary which outplayed that fact 3) when he fought 101 agt. Smiths, he couldve flown off way before cos he knew there were too many... 4) wtf..how can neo be invinsible 5)the 2 ghosts, when initially told to catch the keymaker, they simk into the floor when they couldve flown and captured him instantly and couldve gotten into combat imidately (which would eliminate the highway scene) 6)if agent smith was able to copy himself so many times during the fight without touching people, why did he have to touch neo and morpheus etc. 7)throughout the movie, they talk about options already being chosen and the path already planned out, so why did the architect even bother with the whole convo bit. he couldve jumped straight to the conclusion (elimination of a whole scene again) 8) again there was a "sleeping beauty scene" 9) if the keymaker was talented enough he couldve made a key to go directly to the architect instead of that whole power station blow up mission. i can go on with major glitches in the movie but im too lazy to type now oh and heres a matrix fan's worst mightmare: if any of u have wathed the movie "the thirteenth floor" and of course terminator, u will find matrix is a combo of both. but all movies have glitches and overall id say that the movie was alright..as before, if the romance thing was thrown out,movie wouldve been far better |
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| Originally posted by Arsalan your wrong on a couple of points and i dont agree with most of your points but its your opinion and i dont feel like typing a lot. |
The only scene I did not like was the 10 min fight sequence with Neo vs the French dude's guards in the mansion, it was pretty pointless to have it that long, seemed like it was there just to showcase some more special effects. Other than that I thought it was amazing.
The architect scene was indeed brilliant, and for those of you who watched start trek: the next generation, you'd probably agree that it was very similar to Picards many encounters with Q. I loved the episodes with Q, always fucking with Picards mind and of course the audience watching hehe.
After watching the movie I thought, these machinces/AI are extremely intelligent, so it would be safe to assume that during the revisions of the Matrix, they programmed fail safe back-ups....i.e bullet proofed their software, as most good programmers do. So, for the 1% that reject the matrix and see it for its' truth, these fail safe programs kick in. Programs like the oracle, key maker and such kick in to create a new illusion for these people, to again blind them from the truth, a new hope is given to them a sense of freedom, a sense of real life. However, Zion is only a contruct of the matrix, it is created only to weed out these few who reject and pose a threat to the matrix.....once a large number of them accumlate, Zion is detroyed and then re-created to continue the same process, hence the choice given to Neo to repopulate Zion. So I came to the conclusion that Neo, Morpheus, Trinity and the others are still in the Matrix, still connected, still hardwired, they have only been eluded to believe that they were set free. This would explain why Neo still had powers in the illusionary "real world", because its not the real world its still the matrix.
That's what I initially thought the 3rd part would reveal, but after seeing the revolutions trailer, it seems that they decided to take a different approach hehehe. It now seems to me that Neo just somehow has freaky powers in the real world lol, I think it has to do with his weird connection with Agent smith, but who knows. I don't know which idea is better, all I know is that I can't wait to see revolutions =P
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| Originally posted by DJLocoMoco The only scene I did not like was the 10 min fight sequence with Neo vs the French dude's guards in the mansion, it was pretty pointless to have it that long, seemed like it was there just to showcase some more special effects. Other than that I thought it was amazing. The architect scene was indeed brilliant, and for those of you who watched start trek: the next generation, you'd probably agree that it was very similar to Picards many encounters with Q. I loved the episodes with Q, always fucking with Picards mind and of course the audience watching hehe. After watching the movie I thought, these machinces/AI are extremely intelligent, so it would be safe to assume that during the revisions of the Matrix, they programmed fail safe back-ups....i.e bullet proofed their software, as most good programmers do. So, for the 1% that reject the matrix and see it for its' truth, these fail safe programs kick in. Programs like the oracle, key maker and such kick in to create a new illusion for these people, to again blind them from the truth, a new hope is given to them a sense of freedom, a sense of real life. However, Zion is only a contruct of the matrix, it is created only to weed out these few who reject and pose a threat to the matrix.....once a large number of them accumlate, Zion is detroyed and then re-created to continue the same process, hence the choice given to Neo to repopulate Zion. So I came to the conclusion that Neo, Morpheus, Trinity and the others are still in the Matrix, still connected, still hardwired, they have only been eluded to believe that they were set free. This would explain why Neo still had powers in the illusionary "real world", because its not the real world its still the matrix. That's what I initially thought the 3rd part would reveal, but after seeing the revolutions trailer, it seems that they decided to take a different approach hehehe. It now seems to me that Neo just somehow has freaky powers in the real world lol, I think it has to do with his weird connection with Agent smith, but who knows. I don't know which idea is better, all I know is that I can't wait to see revolutions =P |
there is alot about physics. Neo wouldnt be able to make the machines drop IRL, so that HAS to be an aspect of the matrix.
Either that, or he is part 'machine' from when Smith tried to overwrite his coding. This is where I bounce around....
the other guy was overwriten and then when he returned to Zion, nobody was wiser. Which means that IRL, machines still have effect, even thought the matrix makes your mind believe what happens there happens in real life. So really what does it mean?
So the machines infiltrated Zion...= the EMP that was set off, and why the war was lost so fast... But why did they need an insider machine? And why is he comatose? And how can they not deduce that w/ him being the sole survivor that he is machine? So did neo gain some control over the programs when he did his deal with smith? If so, does morpheus now have the same ability? Just WAY too many ??? that I need to wait till the next one comes out to answer our questions.
The way I figure it, Neo is a machine and always was in the first place. This is why no human can do the things he is capable of doing.
If you notice, throughout part 1 and part 2 you always hear the machines saying "He's only human". You hear this line over and over again. Why would they continue saying that? Neo being a machine would also explain his ability to emit an EMP when he was out of the matrix and destroy the sentinals, at the same time draining him of energy.
There are lots of other things which don't make sense to me either.
I think the program Smith is just another obsolete program that has decided to go against his own deletion. He just has a personal vendeta against Neo and wants to get him back. He was also responsible for the downfall of Zion, by taking control of that human.
Those are my thoughts for now...
EDIT: I just noticed something in the Matrix: Revolutions trailer that kind of confirms my suspicions. Right before Neo fight Smith, you see Morpheus saying, "He fights for us". He is refering to 'us' as the humans, why would he say that if he's talking about Neo? He's a machine I tell you!
actually i was thinking about it the other day and i was thinking about events that happened in the first movie that i didn't notice. So i pulled up the first one and watched it more closely and here i concluded this:
in the first movie, when Morpheous takes Neo to see the Oracle, he told him she was a guide to help him see the path. That part i knew something is up with it cuz the resistance from the matrix was all about choice, not a pre-determined path by higher powers (the oracle)
again: the french man in the 2nd movie, the talk with Neo, he told him that he was very good at following instructions.
Tank himself said in the first movie "10 hours straight, he's a machine"
Also the whole spoon scene in the first movie.
child: do not try to bend the spoon, that is impossible but rather only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
child: there is no spoon
Neo: there is no spoon?
Child: then u will realize it's not the spoon that bends, it's only urself.
When we go back to when Morpheous was teaching Neo how to fight in that kung fu scene, he said "some (rules) can be bent, others can be broken"
back to the oracle scene in the first movie, the oracle tells him not to worry about the vase and he breaks it and she says "oooh what's really gonna cook ur noodles is would u have still had broken it if i didn't say anything."
in the same scene she tells him he's not the one and that he's waiting for the next life.
all this leads to one thing: Neo is half human/half machine. The oracle is the program that controls the entire matrix hence it's named the oracle.
in computer programing (and i've said that b4 but my friends called me crazy) the oracle script is the codes incharge for running the backup/recovery/maintance programs in an operating system (any computer programers, help me out here, i'm not 100% sure of this but i read it somewhere)
my point is: Neo is a program/machine himself. The oracle is simply programing him to "follow" the path. As we all know "there is a difference between follwoing the path and walking the path"
difference is humans walk the path while programs simply follow the instructions.
there is a connection between Neo and the Agent: i think Smith was an old "one" that had chosen to save Zion only to realize he screwed up. Him being smart, he saved himself in the matrix as an agent to hunt the next informant "Neo"
I think Smith (the machine, not the human) grew beyond his parameters (of simply being the human smith's image in the matrix) and he is trying to lead the machines into destruction by killing the one who saves the matrix (by eventually destroying Zion)
Edit: last point is Neo was programed to love. He loves Trinity and i think M2's point was to emphasize on that point therefore the cliched romance scenes. Neo's love to trinity does affect him deeply human or machine. He can't live without her because body can't survive without the mind and in his mind he loves her very much. This is what i think: Neo's love represents hope. Hope that we will live in a free world without machines and that Agent Smith was fighting for the humans after all and that Morpheous got it wrong. It is not Neo that is fighting for "us" it is agent Smith himself!
call me crazy but better crazy than stupid 
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| Originally posted by Arsalan your wrong on a couple of points and i dont agree with most of your points but its your opinion and i dont feel like typing a lot. |
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| Originally posted by DJLocoMoco After watching the movie I thought, these machinces/AI are extremely intelligent, so it would be safe to assume that during the revisions of the Matrix, they programmed fail safe back-ups....i.e bullet proofed their software, as most good programmers do. So, for the 1% that reject the matrix and see it for its' truth, these fail safe programs kick in. Programs like the oracle, key maker and such kick in to create a new illusion for these people, to again blind them from the truth, a new hope is given to them a sense of freedom, a sense of real life. However, Zion is only a contruct of the matrix, it is created only to weed out these few who reject and pose a threat to the matrix.....once a large number of them accumlate, Zion is detroyed and then re-created to continue the same process, hence the choice given to Neo to repopulate Zion. So I came to the conclusion that Neo, Morpheus, Trinity and the others are still in the Matrix, still connected, still hardwired, they have only been eluded to believe that they were set free. This would explain why Neo still had powers in the illusionary "real world", because its not the real world its still the matrix. |
the matrix within matrix thing fits in really well, but i dont think thats what actually happens..
and neo is human, not a machine, thats the whole point, that humans are stronger than machines...he just sorta binds with the matrix cuz his powers are too great and he cant control it, so he could affect the machines in the real world
My friend sent me this really good review of the Matrix 2. You guys should check it out. Look for the 2nd posting by Alejandro on this page (1/3 of the way down):
http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-...=8;t=000022;p=2
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| Originally posted by Tordan My friend sent me this really good review of the Matrix 2. You guys should check it out. Look for the 2nd posting by Alejandro on this page (1/3 of the way down): http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-...=8;t=000022;p=2 |
I posted this in the MTL forum. I basically thought it was shit. I cant believe anyone actually liked it. And calling it brilliant is simply ludicrous. It was nothing more than a 150 million dollar B movie.
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| Originally posted by discojoe Am I the only one who thought this movie was terrible? I liked the first one.. but this one had more cheese than a dj jean party. Holy fuck the cheese never ended.. from morpheus' speach at that overdone rave to the annoying french man (with a terribly fake accent) to the black guy ship drivers 'wooo cool dude' comments to the awful love scenes ('i love you too damn much' for christs sake cut that shit out) It went on and on. And sure the special effects were 'cool' but they had no purpose. Every fucking battle they would fight people with no chance of winning. The camera would spin around them 18 times to show what a tecnical marvel the movie was and then 15 fucking minutes later they realize they cant win and just leave. Neo seems to think he's fucking superman and that scene with the hundred men was retarded.. if i wanted to watch a video game I would do play quake or street fighter or something. The first one was good.. it was new it was different and it made you think. This one was nothing more than a technology showcase that in my opinion was clearly inferior to recent special effects movies |
^^^^^^lol
i remember nudging endlesswave and infinity_high during the movie and telling them how cheesy some scenes were... as i said..tehre are many things that needed more thought and the cheese couldve been reduced
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| Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee ^^^^^^lol i remember nudging endlesswave and infinity_high during the movie and telling them how cheesy some scenes were... as i said..tehre are many things that needed more thought and the cheese couldve been reduced |
Just got back, and I must say:
It was okay. Saying it was brilliant is REALLY stretching it.
I think they did a really poor job of transferring the style and mystique of the first one. Basically, the whole concept lost its coolness after just about everyone and their brother watched the original 43 times.
I thought the first half-hour was laughable. It just had CHEESY written all over it.
The new operator is a boring character, who doesn't really contribute anything, but maybe his story will take place in Revolution (at least I hope so, or wtf was the point of that scene with his wife?!)
The keymaker was REALLY poorly done. He had like what, 3 lines?!?!?
I am just really disappointed at how poorly scripted the movie was. Most of the script was boring one-liners. I think the visual fx deptartment kept coming to the Wachowski Bros, telling them how they've learned to do all this cool stuff, and they just found dumb ways to write it into the script.
The special effects were fantastic, but thats just about it in terms of pros.
OH, and another thing. WTF is up with Zion? The control room is clean, white, sterile and all funky looking, but everything else is dirty and grimy....
2.5/5
Yes certain aspects of the film were cheesy, but I just ignored them, and focused on the evolution of the plot, and that is what I enjoyed.
EDIT:
I've watched the revolutions trailer a few more times and it seems to me that they've gone with the Neo is a machine approach, which is ok I guess, but to be honest It would have made more sense if they had gone with the matrix within the matrix idea and it would be a nice plot twist too. However, had they done that it would have only complicated things, and raised more questions like "Where is the real world? How do they free/Can they free themselves from this second matrix?", and I don't think they would have been able to conclude the film in one last part. So the machine theory is the most probable of explanations.
I think there are many good point made in this thread, however I believe this guy, off of the matrix board, has come up with a very good explanation of it all:
Arsalan wrote:
I watch The Matrix Reloaded last night. No words to describe it. I have many questions in my head right now. I'll tell you
what I believe is the mystery in the sotry.
First a PERFECT WORLD MATRIX was built, but it didn't work.
The architech tells Neo that humans have problems assimilating the matrix becuase they have to be able to CHOOSE, to have a
PURPOSE in life (please help me complete the dialog between Neo and the Architect, english is not my mother language).
Assuming this is a fact it explains why the first Matrix didn't work. In a perferct world humans can't make choices, if they
did then it wouldn't be perfect beacuse humans are not perfect. There is no PURPOSE either, since a PURPOSE is the need to
change something that is not good, to improve things, obviously nothing can be improved in a PERFECT world.
So then they build a second type of Matrix, an inperfect world. Still there are some humans that don't accept the program.
These are people like Morpheus, Trinity and all the others that were freed(?) from the Matrix. According to the Architect
this flaw in the program is what makes the program run. The Architect also claims that this flaw also generates a
singularity, Neo. But I'm not sure about the truth of this stament (more below)
Now the key point is how does the MATRIX keep these people from destroying the Matrix. Well it gives them a PURPOSE. the
Matrix lets this people try to destroy it, or in what's even better it makes them believe that they can destroy it, when they
actually can't.
So now comes the interesting part:
* There are two (maybe more and I believe that in the end we will never know) virtual reality worlds and a real world.
* The first VR world is the Matrix as we knew it in the first movie. But as I argued before some pleople are born this matrix
that have the need to detroy it, to become free. THis people are freed from the first Matrix and move on to the second one.
* The second Matrix is the "real world" shown in the first and second movie. So ZION is a VR city in the second matrix. In
the second Matrix you collect all the rebel minds that are struggling to become free and give them a PURPOSE, to destroy the
first Matrix. This is just a way to stop these minds from trying to become completly free from the second Matrix.
* Proof that there are two VR worlds
- Neo stops the centinels. Who could he stop them with out being plugged to the Matrix?
- Agent Smith hacks in to a human being. That means that the human is still plugged to the system.
So now you say very nice but what does this has to do with anything.
* A PURPOSE is not only an objective, it is also the belief that the objective can be accomplished. So the Matrix generates
the ORACLE and NEO (Yes! NEO is also a program)
* The ORACLE is a program that guides the rebels, it keeps the distracted searching and fighting for something that keeps the
away from the truth (that they are slaves,..., born in a prison for their minds).
* There is the need to reset the matrix from time to time. Just like with your computer, and restart from scratch. There are
to many thing in the Windows registry, programs that were not removed porperly (like the French guy). That is when NEO comes
in.
* Neo is a computer program designed to believe he is a human being. His function is to destroy the Matrix. So that it can be
reloaded.
WHAT???
Yes The One is a program. WHY???
* How else can he do what he does? I don't buy that story that computer programs are built on rules. The human being is also
built on rules.
* The Architect described him as the result of an equation.
* The Architect is allways following Neo. He was watching him in the first movie too!!! Who do I know? The Architect is in
the room with all the screens. Those screens appear in the first movie at the beging of the scene in which Neo is questioned
by the Agents. Also we see all of Neo's life in the screens. He can even see his dreams since we see Trinity falling down the
window.
* The previous Neos were identical to him.
The next thing has to do with the idea that Neo is a computer program and that there are two Matrices.
* In the Matrix Morpheous tells a story, and I quote:
" When the Matrix was first built, there was a man born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake
the Matrix as he saw fit. It was he who freed the first of us, taught us the truth."
* If he was really a man and was born inside the matrix who could he break free from his shell in the real world?
* If that man was THE ONE, why didn't he free that human race? He was not programmed to do so. His function was to reset the
matrix.
So what is the point now, is the human race trapped in this vicious circle?
Obiously not, this is still an american film and things allways end well. What we are seeing now is like the Empire Strikes
Back. In the third movie we will see Neo finally destroy the Matrix. But how? Why doesn't Neo end up doing what he was
programmed to do, like the five Neos before him? The answer is Trinity. think about. How did all this started? AI, a computer
that learned how to think conquers the human race. Now a Computer that learns how to love saves the human race.
Please feel free to comment on anything on this post. I only watched the movie once and didn't get many of the dialogues.
personally, i think the matrix inside a matrix inside a matrix inside a etc... is a cop out. a lame way to put a spin on things. of course people will think that "ooh, he can use his powers in the 'real world' but how? omg, he's stil in the matrix" but to me that's way too easy. i'd want more substance in the actual story, rather than that recursive idea. tho that's probably what they'll go with, or have gone with, for revolutions.
i dunno, seems like there could have been much more to it than rather saying that they're still in the matrix. seems kinda cheap to me.
but i can't come up with a better story, so i'll stop complaining and wait for more cool effects. but as smitty said, the cg stuff takes away from the true feeling of the movie. imo, matrix 1 had much cooler scenes. bullet time, the morpheus rescue, all those they used conventional means of capturing the scenes, and then just tweaked it with minimal cg to make them look smoother. in matrix 2, damn, very easy to tell most was cg. blah.
it's late, and i'm rambling...
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