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- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Humor: Canadian PM Jean Chrétien
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| Originally posted by Eugene Still, Canada is second to the US in terms of people's desire to live there and the amount of opportunities (incl. job opportunities, but not necessarily). 99% of immigrants try to get into the USA. Canada is a 'backup' option. There must be a reason for that don't you think? |
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| Originally posted by Eugene Well, that's true and all of these are very good points that I wish I could say about the US. Socially Canada has a better atmosphere but it's not as prosperous or influential as the US. |
I didn't want to get involved in this but here it goes!
Every country in the world is screwed up about its relationship with the US. But in Canada it seems to be a national obsession, even a neurosis. Imagine, if you will, a homely kind of girl - well-liked but usually ignored(that's you Canada) - who lives next door to the town hunk(that's us). He is the centre of all her thoughts. She peers through the net curtains as he swaggers out for a night on the town. She reads major significance into every gesture: every time he ignores her on the street; every time he gives her an affectionate pat. She despises his unruly ways but, deep down, desperately wants to believe this is true love. He barely even gives her a thought. In romantic fiction, you end up with a white wedding and happy-ever-aftering. In international diplomacy, you get the US-Canada relationship.
Canadian Nationalism & anti-Americanism go hand in hand. In Canada, it is difficult to find a nationalist who can promote Canada without demoting the United States. In essence Canada defines itself in contrast to the United States. This isn't surprising of course, considering Canada's geographic position and the fact that 90% of Canada's population is within 100 miles of the US border.
http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/canadapop.htm
Canada's economy is utterly dependent on the United States, and Americans pump more than $10 billion directly into it every year. Nine million of us cross the northern border more than 40 million times annually, and we buy lots of stuff. And that stuff is heavily taxed by the tax-and-spend Canadian government. So what happens if we all emulate Mr. Bush and just say no to the land of snow?
Canada's economy melts, that's what happens.
http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/simdiff.htm
As I said before it was a joke get off your high horses!!!!!!!!
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 we welcome them with open arms |
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 It's actually quite hard to get into Canada these days....about 400,000 people are let in each year |
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Just face it Yanks....your country isn't as great as you're told it is. |
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Smart immigrants come to Canada...mostly because we welcome them with open arms and end up paying for them for the first few years. It's actually quite hard to get into Canada these days....about 400,000 people are let in each year to keep out population of 31,000,000 growing slowly but steadily. Canada is multicultural, unlike the US, where everybody HAS to be American. Oh, and the strongest growing currencies right now are the Euro and the Canadian dollar, whereas the US dollar is declining in international worth. The Canadian economy feeds off the US yes, but it does not need it to be successful for our own to flourish. The US is in a small recession right now....is Canada? Nope. We also have free healthcare open to EVERYONE. That's something Americans have never had and will never have. And currently....Canada is number 3 in the world behind Norway and Sweden. The Netherlands follows Canada at number 4. Britain is ahead of The US I believe and Germany, Japan. Just face it Yanks....your country isn't as great as you're told it is. |
Born in Israel, living in Toronto since I’ve been 1.5years old. My parents are Russian and I have Spanish and Persian roots. I've traveled extensively throughout North America. I must say that Canada or more specifically, Toronto is a great place for kids to grow, learn, and develop as young adults. We could use up the heavily subsidized University educations we receive, and have all our broken bones fixed for free with our oh-so-beautiful O.H.I.P. (Ontario health insurance plan) card!
It's at this time (after we sucked Canada dry for its subsidized education) that we should all be making the move to the US... because straight the fuck up... CANADA as a whole - SUCKS!
Don't get me wrong... Canadians for the most part are awesome... preferred well over the Americans anywhere in the world. Americans are raised as animalistic freaks... I’m not even joking... they are TOO rowdy and don’t know where to draw the line sometimes.
anyways, since I love what America is trying to do in this world (rid it of terror monkeys), and Canada just sits on the side a picks it's ass, my overall opinion stands favourably on the side of the good old United States of America!
Although I must say, anti-Semitism is a serious problem still and mustn't still exist in a day 'n' age such as ours!
The Chicago Tribune crossed the line today, with a truly vile antisemitic cartoon. Here it is.
The Chicago Sun Times is disgusted, and pulls no punches in their commentary: Here it is -- Scroll down to Caricature Assasination
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| Originally posted by Eugene ^^ um, a little contradiction here... Ironic how you put these sentences right next to each other... By the way, Canada does not welcome 'everyone' -- only those without the "burden" of elderly parents... I know, I have friends living in Canada! Well, first of all, I'm not a Yank, I'm Russian.... In response to your question "Where would you rather live?" I would definitely say USA... because of the higher standard of living, more opportunities, more people, more exciting life. Besides the fact that we have always been #1 for all immigrants, and are the top economy in the world, and have the friendliest people in the Western world, we are also an exciting place to live: We have Las Vegas, Miami Florida with South Beach, California.. We have New York, the capital of the world... Sure, we may have some bad social and foreign policies (no country is perfect), but no other country comes close to the United States in terms of the quality of life: social, economic, personal... |
Melech_Mike: It's not surprising you're kissing the American's ass right now. You're obviously an Israeli Jew and quite obviously supported the War in Iraq....like every Jew out there.
I'm not being pro-Arab here, but you talk about terrorism? Before Israel actually became a country in the mid to late 1940's, the Jews there methodically went about assassinating British civilians and military personnel. Ever heard of the King David Hotel bombing? How Israeli's conveniently forget their past.
At least Canada had the guts to stand up for what it believes in and didn't back down JUST because the US told them everybody should go to war. When Canada and Britain went to war against Germany in 1939....where were the Yanks? They let war rage on for 2.5 years before coming in and helping so fuck right off.
I say if you don't like Canada....then get the FUCK out and go the USA
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 When Canada and Britain went to war against Germany in 1939....where were the Yanks? They let war rage on for 2.5 years before coming in and helping so fuck right off. |
Everyone is nationalistic, so whatever country you are from you will believe that it is the best country to live in and that the things that are not good about your country are small in compared to the things that make your country great. Americans will love America, Canadians will love Canada and that is how the world works. I have come to realize through my travels that i do not consider one country to be better then another just different in their own way, to gain something in one country you give up something you had in another country.
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| Originally posted by occrider The US contributed just as much as Canada did during these two years with the exception of 80 Canadian pilots who fought in the battle of britain. |
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| Originally posted by Tudo Beleza Everyone is nationalistic, so whatever country you are from you will believe that it is the best country to live in and that the things that are not good about your country are small in compared to the things that make your country great. Americans will love America, Canadians will love Canada and that is how the world works. I have come to realize through my travels that i do not consider one country to be better then another just different in their own way, to gain something in one country you give up something you had in another country. |
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Oh yes....and what about the thousands of Canadians that died trying to save Hong Kong? Or the few thousand that died in the Atlantic from 39-41 that were transporting arms and food to Britain? US ships were not attacked during this time so don't start that. Actually, if you REALLY want to get into the grit and dirt....are any Americans aware that General Motors actually tried to negotiate with Hitler about selling him tanks/planes/ammunition to fight Russia with once britain "had been conquered." It's a bloody good thing Britain managed to hold its own and defeat the Luftwaffe in 1940. |
Funny how most Americans can laugh at Bush's speech problems, but when it's the Canadian PM.....
BTW trinity New Orleans rox!!!!! WOOOOO!
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| Originally posted by occrider US ships WERE attacked, because the Germans practiced unrestricted submarine warfare. Not to mention the US attacked German submarines threatening allied shipping that crossed the neutrality zone established by the US to aid the lend-lease program. Your attempts to diminish the US's role and intentions in WW2 are really rather pathetic. I would suggest you stop now. |
Canadian death toll from WWII - 42,000
US death toll from WWII - 295,000
Figures are rounded to nearest 1000
Canadian involvement in WWII:
In December 1939 the Ist Canadian Division left for Britain. They were followed later by two other infantry divisions, two armoured divisions and two armoured brigades.
In 1941 two Canadian battalions were sent to the defence of Hong Kong but they were captured by the invading Japanese Army in December 1941. Of these, 246 died as a result of harsh treatment while prisoners of war.
The Royal Canadian Air Force contributed a squadron during the Battle of Britain and 48 other Canadian squadrons fought during the war. Canada also provided facilities and personnel for the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan which produced 131,553 airmen for Commonwealth countries.
Canadian soldiers were used on the raid on Dieppe in France in August 1942. The attempt to take and hold the port was a disaster and 3,367 out of the 4,963 Canadians who took part were killed, wounded or captured.
The 3rd Canadian Division and second armoured brigade took part in the invasion of Normandy in June 1944. The Canadians suffered heavily casualties during the fighting at Pas de Calais, Caen and Falaise. They fought throughout the Netherlands and participated in the recapture of Antwerp.
After the surrender of Germany in April 1945, a Canadian occupation force remained in the country until 1946.
US involvement:
If you would like to see the US involvement in WWII follow the links, the data was to great to post in this thread!
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWarmedforces.htm
http://www.donet.com/%7Emconrad/links.htm
http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/
So as one of you so eloquently put it Fuck right off!
BTW First WW June 28, 1914- June 28 1919
Almost 600,000 Canadians joined the army during the First World War. Of these, 418,000 served overseas with the Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF) and sixty-three of these won the Victoria Cross, including William Bishop and John MacGregor. The CEF had 210,000 casualties, of whom, 56,500 were killed.
By July 1918 there were over a million US soldiers in France. General John Pershing deployed US troops to help the French defend the Western Front during the 3rd Battle of the Aisne in May and at the Marne in June. US troops also took part in the Allied attacks at Le Hamel and Canal du Nord before Pershing launched his own offensive at St Mihiel and Meuse-Argonne.
More than 2 million troops eventually reached Europe but a large number arrived too late to see any action. The American Expeditionary Force suffered 264,000 casualties during the war. It has been calculated that 112,432 Americans died. Of these, around 50 per cent died from disease (mainly influenza).
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| Originally posted by Wurm Would you prefer we go back to WWI? How long did that last? Was it 1914-1918 or 1917-1918? I know, limited Canadian sovereignty blah blah blah... |
. This didn't start off with anybody from the US critisizing Canada's role in WW1 and WW2. Actual CRITICISM with regards to this topic of WW1 and WW2 has been flowing one way. I'm not going to stoop to the level of demeaning your country's contributions and sacrifices in either war so you can go to hell.
^^^^^ Agreed, I can't believe that something that started out as a bit of humor, has turned into this!!!!!!
Canada contributed as much as it could. Almost 900,000 Canadians were involved in WW1....at the time, our total population in 1918 was LESS than 10,000,000. After the success at Vimy Ridge, Canadians were the most feared troops on the western front. A small, but effective army, as in WW2. On D Day 1944, (59 years ago today), Canadians pushed further at Juno Beach than the Brits did at Sword and Gold or the Yanks at Omaha and Utah but faced similar opposition.
And US ships were not attacked from 1939-41....or else FDR would have gone to war immediately against Germany. He could only get the full support of his people when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.(which higher ups knew about by the way, but let it happen)
But whatever...we all did our part. But I'm really sick of seeing Americans and their movies attempt to portray that it was only Americans that won both wars. The three tide turning battles in WW2 were fought before American forces even engaged the Germans. They are the Battle of Britain, Stalingrad and El Alamein (the last one stopped Rommel from acquiring oil in Egypt).
What the Americans DID do was help out Britain and Russia with supplies and made the war in Europe end faster than it would have without them. And they made a huge contribution in fighting the Japs.
What happened in these wars were decisions made by a few people over half a century ago. We can't say shit now, because we were not the ones sent to fight in these wars. Its silly to undermine the efforts of the Americans during these times, and its also silly to to think that Americans "bailed out the europeans" in the world wars.
It's easy to criticize or take credit now, but we'll never know what really went on in the minds of the people involved.
With that said, I'm happy to live in Canada, and I'm happy with our current PM, and I can laugh along with jokes aimed at him. This country gives me $8000 every year so I can go to school, half of it I don't need to pay back, (mind u school is ALOT cheaper here than the US), and I don't pay a cent when I go see my family doctor. And there is no waiting lines to do that.
I've been to big US cities, like New York, and Miami. I lived with my uncle in the Bronx for two weeks. Let's just say that you can't really compare standard of living for an immigrant in the middle of New York with the standard of living for an immigrant in Toronto or Vancouver.
US citizens can keep chanting "U.S.A" and "we're number 1," bragging about their economic powerhouse and how rich they are, but as a poor-ass student living in the middle of a metropolis, I definately know where I'd rather be.
I think it's safe to say that the Russians had the most casualities in WWI and WWII combined.
PLease don't hurt me if i'm wrong...
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 And US ships were not attacked from 1939-41....or else FDR would have gone to war immediately against Germany. He could only get the full support of his people when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.(which higher ups knew about by the way, but let it happen) |
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The three tide turning battles in WW2 were fought before American forces even engaged the Germans. They are the Battle of Britain, Stalingrad and El Alamein (the last one stopped Rommel from acquiring oil in Egypt). |
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I think it's safe to say that the Russians had the most casualities in WWI and WWII combined. PLease don't hurt me if i'm wrong... |
The Battle of Britain was a HUGE tide turning battle! Come on man....wake up!! England was on its own with its back up against the wall....France (with a bigger army than both England AND Germany...fucking French. ) had already fallen. The combination of the superiority of British (and commonwealth, Check, free french, polish, a few yanks, etc) pilots and British aircraft at odds of over 4-1 AND after Hitler's stupid decision to attack the cities rather than airfields granted the Allies the first major victory of the war. If England had not defeated the Luftwaffe, there would have been no war for the Americans to join. British support, and later American, would never have reached Russia. Germany would have been able to defeat Russia in 1941-42 had she not been tied up in Africa and in the Atlantic combatting British and Commonwealth trooops. Plus, the Battle of Britain was a massive victory for morale. It showed the British still had a fight in them to give.....no wonder Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion, because he knew without control of the air, he could not face the Royal Navy (still the largest and most powerful in the world at the time). Also....over 2000 German aircraft were shot down in the BoB. compared to about 900 British aircraft. The Germans also lost over 3,000 experienced air crewman. Had those numbers not been lost, the Germans would have had clear air superiority over Russia and in Western Europe during the D-Day invasion.
I think you fail to see the effects of Britain defeating Germany in the air in 1940. Without that victory, WW2 would have been over by 1942 at the latest.
OH, and quddha....you're my new hero.
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 The Battle of Britain was a HUGE tide turning battle! Come on man....wake up!! England was on its own with its back up against the wall....France (with a bigger army than both England AND Germany...fucking French. ) had already fallen. The combination of the superiority of British (and commonwealth, Check, free french, polish, a few yanks, etc) pilots and British aircraft at odds of over 4-1 AND after Hitler's stupid decision to attack the cities rather than airfields granted the Allies the first major victory of the war. If England had not defeated the Luftwaffe, there would have been no war for the Americans to join. British support, and later American, would never have reached Russia. Germany would have been able to defeat Russia in 1941-42 had she not been tied up in Africa and in the Atlantic combatting British and Commonwealth trooops. Plus, the Battle of Britain was a massive victory for morale. It showed the British still had a fight in them to give.....no wonder Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion, because he knew without control of the air, he could not face the Royal Navy (still the largest and most powerful in the world at the time). Also....over 2000 German aircraft were shot down in the BoB. compared to about 900 British aircraft. The Germans also lost over 3,000 experienced air crewman. Had those numbers not been lost, the Germans would have had clear air superiority over Russia and in Western Europe during the D-Day invasion.I think you fail to see the effects of Britain defeating Germany in the air in 1940. Without that victory, WW2 would have been over by 1942 at the latest. OH, and quddha....you're my new hero. |
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| Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 The Battle of Britain was a HUGE tide turning battle! Come on man....wake up!! England was on its own with its back up against the wall....France (with a bigger army than both England AND Germany...fucking French. ) had already fallen. The combination of the superiority of British (and commonwealth, Check, free french, polish, a few yanks, etc) pilots and British aircraft at odds of over 4-1 AND after Hitler's stupid decision to attack the cities rather than airfields granted the Allies the first major victory of the war. If England had not defeated the Luftwaffe, there would have been no war for the Americans to join. British support, and later American, would never have reached Russia. Germany would have been able to defeat Russia in 1941-42 had she not been tied up in Africa and in the Atlantic combatting British and Commonwealth trooops. Plus, the Battle of Britain was a massive victory for morale. It showed the British still had a fight in them to give.....no wonder Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion, because he knew without control of the air, he could not face the Royal Navy (still the largest and most powerful in the world at the time). Also....over 2000 German aircraft were shot down in the BoB. compared to about 900 British aircraft. The Germans also lost over 3,000 experienced air crewman. Had those numbers not been lost, the Germans would have had clear air superiority over Russia and in Western Europe during the D-Day invasion.I think you fail to see the effects of Britain defeating Germany in the air in 1940. Without that victory, WW2 would have been over by 1942 at the latest. OH, and quddha....you're my new hero. |
. I understand the importance of the battle of britain in repelling operation sea lion ... don't get me wrong. But with respects to a turning point of the war I disagree. I say this because the battle of britain was a defensive effort that resulted in the continuity and survival of Britain's existence. However, it did not result in a disruption of Germany's stranglehold over Europe nor a diminishment of its industrial capacity. I place credit where credit is deserved and if you ask me, EVERY major turning point in the war took place in Russia. Yes the allied bombing of German industry had a huge impact and yes the opening of the second front was decisive in ensuring victory but get this. I think the numbers add up such that 80% of ALL german casualties occurred at the eastern front. The fact that american AND european history textbooks gloss over this fact is grossly criminal.
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