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-- FINALLY: Ishkur's Guide v2.0
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While his genre splintering is quite questionable it proves interesting. It's also of note a lot of his samples are inane.

No need to get uptight about it. Although i'll say he does a fare job of bashing trance in a funny sort of way. I'd say he's an anti-pretentious pretentious person if that's possible. Makes me laugh either way.

quote:

Originally posted by spit_heron hey are the songs under goa and psy a true and/or worthy example of these genres? I like what i hear, just might have to get into that..

I'd say the quintessential gateway goa track is "Astral Projection - Dancing Galaxy" or perhaps Yahel - Voyage. Take a listen, see if you like what you hear.

Yeah, the rank 1 sample really struck me as out of place aswell. I think the main fallacy of the guide is he just tries to cover too much ground. One can't be well versed in all edges of electronic music simultaneously, or at least not accurately. Considering the girth of the task one can't knock him too much...

It's not nearly as good as that other guide.

Oh, wait. There is no other guide.

Jeez, some of you people need to take this thing with a grain of salt and recognize the value of having a guide like this out there.

And regarding the Not Trance category, you're totally missing the point of why he even put it there, which was to criticize the ridiculously overinflated breakdowns that some trance 'anthems' contain these days. Compare to classic or progressive trance, which instead build on subtle progression to create a musical journey. The type of trance he's typifying under that label totally defeats the purpose by throwing these massive, uber-uplifting melodies in your face rather than slowly crafting them.

Sure, there's anthem trance I love, but he's making a very valid point about the death of Sasha-style progressive trance, which I feel was superior in most respects to the uplifting trance I hear today.

Complain if you want. Ishkur will continue to be Ishkur, and I certainly don't agree with everything he's got on that guide. I find most of it simply amusing. But nothing else close to this exists on the net, so stop acting as if he made some sort of criminal offense.

I'm sure he's laughing at all of you taking him so damn seriously.

Well said, Cobalt.

some of you need to grow a funny-bone. Sure, its tongue-in-cheek, but thats what makes it entertaining. Besides, he gives kudos to tranceaddicts in the credits




Lets play name that genre:

"This is the cheesiest cheese that you will ever cheese on. Even the cheese of the cheese who make this cheese are cheesy. The cheesiest of cheesy cheeses abound. It's cheese even for euro cheese. Most wouldn't cheese this cheese. Absolute cheese cheese."

Answer:
Gabber house

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance Peace Division - Feel My Drums is NOT tribal techno....it's tribal house. Olive - Your Not Alone is NOT TRIP HOP

I have to agree on those two points, though.

I don't mind all the shortcomings in his guide...


but one thing that really really needs to be changed
is the one in
"Epic House"
I mean... "Bryan Adams - Heaven (Stupid Dance Mix)"

maybe i'm misinformed... but even if he didn't know the original track, how the hell can that voice be Bryan Adam's voice?

bout fucking time

About time indeed!

I really enjoyed the thing. If you take it too seriously then your obviously missing the point... I mean look at the disclaimer, it says right there its meant to first entertain, then inform. I have no idea why people are having strokes because some of the songs are mislabled or for the trance bashing (although Id have to agree with a fair amount of it....)

Whatever, its a fun little thing which, even if you strip away the actual music from it, is filled with some nifty facts and history that I never knew. So chill

a lil bit mad he bashed exhale, but hey, he wubs psy trance, i wub psy trance, he is a lil gabber head so you can see where he is coming from when he bashes big mainstreamish genres lolz, it is all in fun i shrug off the shit that offends most since he is entitled to his opinion which i frequently agree with

Red Herrign made it w00t!!

three drives - greece 2000 and lost tribe - gamemaster labeled as progressive??

what a dumbass!

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt It's not nearly as good as that other guide. Oh, wait. There is no other guide. Jeez, some of you people need to take this thing with a grain of salt and recognize the value of having a guide like this out there. And regarding the Not Trance category, you're totally missing the point of why he even put it there, which was to criticize the ridiculously overinflated breakdowns that some trance 'anthems' contain these days. Compare to classic or progressive trance, which instead build on subtle progression to create a musical journey. The type of trance he's typifying under that label totally defeats the purpose by throwing these massive, uber-uplifting melodies in your face rather than slowly crafting them. Sure, there's anthem trance I love, but he's making a very valid point about the death of Sasha-style progressive trance, which I feel was superior in most respects to the uplifting trance I hear today. Complain if you want. Ishkur will continue to be Ishkur, and I certainly don't agree with everything he's got on that guide. I find most of it simply amusing. But nothing else close to this exists on the net, so stop acting as if he made some sort of criminal offense.

I couldn't agree more.

quote:

Originally posted by Excite three drives - greece 2000 and lost tribe - gamemaster labeled as progressive?? what a dumbass!

Well Greece 2000 is progressive trance, even by today's definitions, but that's beside the point. Both of those tracks were considered "progressive trance" when they were created, whereas trance proper came into being in the early to mid 90's.

Don't call people dumbasses if you're not completely sure what you're talking about. Take a look at what he has filed for progressive house and what he calls "British House."

check out his terror categories. . . talk about migraines.

Pretty cool that he would take the time to do all of that, even if it isn't very accurate.

I'm really really out of words... all i have to say.is F.U.C.K. Off, Ishkur, you are a no good son of a b**** that is polluting peoples mind...that is not a guide, its your sick ass opinions of genres

In Fact, I think i only satisfy with his Goa/Psychedelic in the "Trance Section"

damn it hardtrance its not hardstyle.....

quote:

Originally posted by starglider I'm sure he's laughing at all of you taking him so damn seriously. . Well said, Cobalt.

Yup! LOL if he isn't I sure am LOL! Some people take this sub genre thing a little too seriously to begin with .

quote:

Originally posted by Icesotope I'm really really out of words... all i have to say.is F.U.C.K. Off, Ishkur, you are a no good son of a b**** that is polluting peoples mind...that is not a guide, its your sick ass opinions of genres In Fact, I think i only satisfy with his Goa/Psychedelic in the "Trance Section" damn it hardtrance its not hardstyle.....

Way to get worked up about something that doesn't matter AT ALL.

Somewhere in my guide, I wrote:

"the trance template of breakdown-build-anthem...made this strange, space-age music suddenly acceptable to the sonically docile masses....This cookie cutter, paint-by-numbers formula...reformed [trance] into a neverending series of pop jingles...the quirky kind of music with only a niche market [was] no longer long, unwieldy, repetitive and unresponsive, it became a familiarity....a powdered, sugar-coated pop schmaltz...for easy digestion by [those] who would never think to even blink at trance in its raw incarnate....the musical equivalent of drowning a meal in ketchup so you can't taste the original flavour anymore.

In doing so, it stopped becoming trance."


All your objections are proving me right.

I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't hate trance. I hate BAD trance. And Rank One - Airwave is the poster boy for really bad, baudy, fluffy fake trance.



(Why is Cobalt the only one who's figured it out?)

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur (Why is Cobalt the only one who's figured it out?)

No dude, I totally agree.

PS. Your site is hilarious, gotta love Rave Captions.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Somewhere in my guide, I wrote: "the trance template of breakdown-build-anthem...made this strange, space-age music suddenly acceptable to the sonically docile masses....This cookie cutter, paint-by-numbers formula...reformed [trance] into a neverending series of pop jingles...the quirky kind of music with only a niche market [was] no longer long, unwieldy, repetitive and unresponsive, it became a familiarity....a powdered, sugar-coated pop schmaltz...for easy digestion by [those] who would never think to even blink at trance in its raw incarnate....the musical equivalent of drowning a meal in ketchup so you can't taste the original flavour anymore. In doing so, it stopped becoming trance."

props to ishkur for making this tongue-in-cheek catgories..it needs improvement but its definetely better than version 1!!

btw don't dog on rank 1 - airwave. that is a fav track for a lot of us TA's.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Somewhere in my guide, I wrote: "the trance template of breakdown-build-anthem...made this strange, space-age music suddenly acceptable to the sonically docile masses....This cookie cutter, paint-by-numbers formula...reformed [trance] into a neverending series of pop jingles...the quirky kind of music with only a niche market [was] no longer long, unwieldy, repetitive and unresponsive, it became a familiarity....a powdered, sugar-coated pop schmaltz...for easy digestion by [those] who would never think to even blink at trance in its raw incarnate....the musical equivalent of drowning a meal in ketchup so you can't taste the original flavour anymore. In doing so, it stopped becoming trance." All your objections are proving me right. I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't hate trance. I hate BAD trance. And Rank One - Airwave is the poster boy for really bad, baudy, fluffy fake trance. (Why is Cobalt the only one who's figured it out?)

I totally understand what you mean with "not trance" and I agree with that definition as I hate cookie-cutter stale fluffy trite formulaic trance as well. But I also think that you're kind of missing the point with some of these examples. You have an obvious bias against trance coming from Europe and tend to prefer the oriental/non-European variants. Fine. But from a purely musical perspective, one has to recognize that within the basic structural formula of European trance truly amazing music has been made. The concept of a formula is a Western (European)idea that stems back to the 17th century with the euro dance music of the day (ie. minuets, sarabande, gavottes, guiges, allemandes, the waltz in the 19th C. etc.). Composers such as Bach, Handel, Mozart, Strauss and so on took those dance music formulas (that are ESSENTIAL for white people all over the world who just don't have the same soul or funk to get down on the dancefloor naturally) to another level. I think the best exponents of european trance production and djs have managed to carry that concept forward.

Also, I loved your examples this time even more because they just go on to prove how complex and diverse the styles played by my favorite djs are. From acid trance to breaks to swedish techno to the so-called progressive house/trance and even minimal techno to the Gouda kind of anthemic european trance, produced with class, depth and originality. I found samples in all of these groups of tracks played by one of those djs you love to hate for supposedly being all cookie-cutter.

I enjoyed the new section on downtempo and the shoutout to minimalism. However, I think minimalism and ambient were VERY instrumental in the creation of trance (both european and oriental) because it stresses similar aesthetics, music made by a process. Minimalism is done with a western art music bias because this was the background of all of its composers, even if it gives prominence to oriental music as a great influence, it's all about the Euro bias in its approach to music making. It was funny when you described some anthem as having 3 notes in its melody as if that was something bad Minimalism. That's what the best trance is all about, turning that formula into a process.

I agree with the hating on Children, I never liked that track and it did indeed give trance a bad name from my perspective. It's just Yanni with a kick. And trance and bass does indeed rule. The amen break thing was hilarious. You should do a clownstep def. as an extension of jump up. That would be funny and it wouldn't be more legit than "not trance". Just an idea. Later....

ishkur so knows what going on, much more so compared to the ta's getting really angry about the guide

YaleTrance: yes, duelly noted. But how is any of that my problem?

Above all else, I urge you to accept the contradictions instead of ask for clarity. But I'll explain: I look not really to the root, origin, or particular aesthete of a form of music. I never once said I hated 3-key melodies. That's not the way I judge music, and I would think anyone that accepts or disregards entire cultural movements because of such stringent anal-retentive personal guidelines is a bore to be around anyway.

Instead, I take a holistic (and very very unscientific) view and judge a form of music by its INTENT. Eurodance is silly, stupid fun because it knows that it is silly, stupid fun. It doesn't try to be anything but. You can't help but have respect for something that fosters absolutely no illusions about what it is.

This is something that--I'm hoping you'll agree although it IS arguable--the bombastic trance tunes doesn't share. The music is blown way out of proportion, the people who play it are blown way out of proportion (Gods? Please....they are jukeboxes, that's all), and the people who listen to it are simply blown away. A 3 minute breakdown is not uplifting. It is boring.

But probably the most insulting thing about it is the fact that each track is exactly the same, yet they pretend that they're different. Like we're not going to notice Transa used the same preset samplebanks and sequence engine for 6 of his singles? It reminds me a lot of how in 1984 because previous records are continuously destroyed no one can remember anything, so when the chocolate ration is at 25 grams a week and then they announce that they're RAISING it to 20 grams a week, no one bats an eye.....since they can't remember what the previous ration was, they accept the change in policy, and even celebrate it, remarking how the standard of living is getting better.

Do you people even have a concept of history? Do you know what sounds like trance, and what doesn't? I'm willing to wager that those who think Airwave is the pinnacle of trance probably didn't start listening to trance until 3 years ago anyway, so that's their only frame of reference.

Seriously, after 6 years of the same template, don't you think it's time we put the anthems to rest for once? For the record, I'm listening to a lot of Icon of Coil these days. I'm hoping more people do stuff like that, and more DJs spin it. It's something new and energizing that I think the trance scene needs. Something a little bit more darker and brooding, but not total EBM, so it's not entirely alienating.

Oh, and yes: I'm currently working on a Jungle version of NOT TRANCE that spawned off of Jump Up that I'm calling (with this many letters to) "SUUUUUUUUPER Jump Up!"....because the bassline are just as bad as the trance anthems: over-the-top, domineering, and absolutely silly.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt And regarding the Not Trance category, you're totally missing the point of why he even put it there, which was to criticize the ridiculously overinflated breakdowns that some trance 'anthems' contain these days. Compare to classic or progressive trance, which instead build on subtle progression to create a musical journey. The type of trance he's typifying under that label totally defeats the purpose by throwing these massive, uber-uplifting melodies in your face rather than slowly crafting them.

Yes, alot of people don't like trance.
Yes, alot of people think trance is cookie cutter.

But how can anyone believe that Fragma, ATB & Ian Van Dahl are prime examples of trance, and that Rank 1 & Ferry Corsten don't make trance?

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