TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Palestine scores 1.02 more points
Pages (4): « 1 [2] 3 4 »

Re: Resistance

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian It's like the American revolution. British soldiers come to dictate an American's life, so the American takes a gun and fires at them to defend his way of life and his home.

ya except Americans didnt go to London and kill kids. They fought against the ARMY NOT THE CIVILIANS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T COWARDS LIKE YOU.

Re: Resistance

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian Let me just say that there really is no difference between Palestinian gunmen and civilians. Palestinians as a whole are revolting against Israeli occupation. Civilians take up arms or stones to fight soldiers and tanks. Anyone could have a gun to fight with. This is a revolution. Everyone participates in defending the land. When you say Israeli soldiers are fighting militants, you should be aware that it means Israeli soldiers are fighting civilians with guns. Civilians who decide to defend their land and their homes. It's resistance. And not everything the resistance does is something to be proud of. But nevertheless, it is resistance. You fight the oppressor with whatever means necessary. They come to invade your land, you take up arms, you find guns and fight to the death for your home and honor. When the IDF is fighting "militants", it means they are fighting civilians who are defending their land. I hope that makes sense to you. It's like the American revolution. British soldiers come to dictate an American's life, so the American takes a gun and fires at them to defend his way of life and his home. Many families wish to arm themselves. You've seen this situation in movies all the time, but you have trouble linking them to Palestinians because of the effect the media has had on you.

I have 2 questions for you.

1. Why did the palestinian side back down from the Oslo agreement?
2. Why do maps of palestine in the offices of Al Fatah show palestinian territory is covering all of the israeli state?

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 this is one of the stupidest statements i've heard all week. thanks.

and for me to hear that the IDf soldiers are terrorists is the most stupid thing,so i think that its the same

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King i have with great support already proven that the IDF have frequently targeted children. Its your chioce to research it if you want, but it does happen.

yea thats right becuse all israelies are evil and they dont have a soul

and about Palastinian posts,i dont think i should convince you people that he is wrong,if i do..i suggest you to check your common sense and human decency to understand that 18 yrs old boys and even 32 years old soldiers that have famlies are also people.

there"s no point to even read his posts becuse all he did was wave around with the UN(that have how much arabs in it?) hypocrite treating to israel,i mean if the UN say that the situation of the arabs is so fukin bad becuse of the israelies then they whould have done something already,oil makes people do crazy things
The EU is sponsering terror by paying suicide boombers famelies after they are ded.

i guess its like the head of the Hamas orginazation said:we will always have the EU and the UN by our side,a thing that is very true.

and palastinian again why do you think israel wants to control the palastinian people?! dont we have enough on our heads without controling them?
the terror Org. and the palastinian people have diffrent agenda from yours,becuse what they are wanting is impossible,we cant give them everything so they do suicide boombing until they will get it,what do you want that we wont go on war with these people and let them kill us?!



HELL NO!!

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik haha thats so stupid you're actually saying that the death of an infant is avenging the attacks carried out by armed forces. shouldn't they be targeting the people that attacked them instead of defenseless 2 month old girls? oh wait they are too big a pussies.

maybe after this we will try to convinve some feminists to read playboy?

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian GET OFF MY LAND if you want peace!

thats bull there was no IDF in the terretories in 96 but still there was terror.
the terror ORG. want an impossible thing,they want more then they deserve,we cant give you TEl-aviv and the entire jerusalem SORRY!!
and until terror will stop there will be no Palastine,its a very simple thing.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I have 2 questions for you. 1. Why did the palestinian side back down from the Oslo agreement? 2. Why do maps of palestine in the offices of Al Fatah show palestinian territory is covering all of the israeli state?

1.the palastinians have only signed the agreement in the first place becuse the hamas was not strong enough beck then, this is also the reason that the org. agreed to the current agreement for a while,becuse theyve wanted to improve theyre missile Tech.
2.this is what ive been saying!! the org. see the entire israel as settelment so therefor they do terror in the entire israel and not just in the real settelments,theyre agenda is getting israel and not what they really sould have.

quote:

Originally posted by Viber and for me to hear that the IDf soldiers are terrorists is the most stupid thing,so i think that its the same

you can't compare the IDF to an american police force...they're two completely different entities. get your facts straight before you post, because you only make yourself look like a fool.

Re: Palestine scores 1.02 more points

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A Palestinian gunman shot dead a two-month-old baby girl and a man who opened the door to him at a Jewish settlement in the West Bank on Friday as Israelis celebrated the Jewish New Year. oh yea Israel should definately go easy on them.

It seems to me that this quote does not imply that the shooter intentionally shot the child. The way I would read that is, man opens door with kid, shooter opens fire instantly without thinking.

Either way it's horrible but I thought I would add that perspective, because clearly regardless of action intent does make some difference.

I would also like to add that it is not reasonable to look at both the actions of Israel and Palestine in the same way because their is a fundamental difference between the two of them. Israel is in the position of power and Palestine is clearly not.

Also the UN condems MANY things without any actions. Look at the massacre in Rowanda of the Hootsies. They condemed that and even moved to action about it. Unfortunatelly 90 days to late. They condem things all the time but very infrequently even try to act.

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 you can't compare the IDF to an american police force...they're two completely different entities. get your facts straight before you post, because you only make yourself look like a fool.

sure i can,theres people who say that the police is treating minorities diffrent,theres a rather large number of people who claim that the police is killing black children becuse they are black and they say that they are not moral like other police departments in other areas and i found a similarty between the two

i know its a two diffrente entities but i also know that theyre job are pretty much the same


















you know what..
Fuck it,i really dont have the power to argue on this isuue..

thanks for realizing the truth and not bickering pointlessly.

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 thanks for realizing the truth and not bickering pointlessly.

no,im just too tired

First of all we were under your occupation for 36 years. So no, sorry, we will not stop the Palestinian Revolution. We gave you numerous chances. And Viber, 1996 was one of the worst years of the Oslo accords. Many pregnant women going into labour were denied access to hospitals and their babies died. Many children were shot and killed as they demonstrated. 1996 was terrible but I will not go over the details right now.
By the year 2000 we were fed up. Our leadership did not back down on Oslo but we decided to fight back because our people were dying. It was Barak that broke negotiations because of the intifada. And the intifada started again because of the lack of Israeli good faith in negotiations and their most disgusting offer that Barak proposed, which was absolute garbage. No, we will not back down. We will not end the intifada. Not until you leave us alone. Go back to your country. Go back to Israel. Protect your borders, but get out.
And you tell me about a map of all of Palestine including Israel in Fatah's offices. Yes, so why is it also that the Knesset has a map of Greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates? And why does Israel still have it's maps without the occupied territories as Palestine? Why are most of the western world maps with Israel as the whole strip of land and no occupied territories? It goes both ways, buddy. But this is normal. It doesn't mean anything. Even if we have two states, we will still be different in our maps. It's normal.
Oh by the way, the Americans did kill loyalists in cold blood, which were civilians. George Washington was considered a terrorist by the British. The British media portrayed him as a terrorist. He wanted to burn down New York. This is human nature I can't stop saying it. Innocent civilians are always targetted in such revolutions. It's not right, but this is life.

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian First of all we were under your occupation for 36 years. So no, sorry, we will not stop the Palestinian Revolution. We gave you numerous chances. And Viber, 1996 was one of the worst years of the Oslo accords. Many pregnant women going into labour were denied access to hospitals and their babies died. Many children were shot and killed as they demonstrated. 1996 was terrible but I will not go over the details right now. By the year 2000 we were fed up. Our leadership did not back down on Oslo but we decided to fight back because our people were dying. It was Barak that broke negotiations because of the intifada. And the intifada started again because of the lack of Israeli good faith in negotiations and their most disgusting offer that Barak proposed, which was absolute garbage. No, we will not back down. We will not end the intifada. Not until you leave us alone. Go back to your country. Go back to Israel. Protect your borders, but get out. And you tell me about a map of all of Palestine including Israel in Fatah's offices. Yes, so why is it also that the Knesset has a map of Greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates? And why does Israel still have it's maps without the occupied territories as Palestine? Why are most of the western world maps with Israel as the whole strip of land and no occupied territories? It goes both ways, buddy. But this is normal. It doesn't mean anything. Even if we have two states, we will still be different in our maps. It's normal. Oh by the way, the Americans did kill loyalists in cold blood, which were civilians. George Washington was considered a terrorist by the British. The British media portrayed him as a terrorist. He wanted to burn down New York. This is human nature I can't stop saying it. Innocent civilians are always targetted in such revolutions. It's not right, but this is life.

if the Barak proposal in Taba is absolute garbege then how come the pal" are agreeing to it now,it hasent changed,and also i think that 94% of the terretories+a fair agreement about jerusalem is a fair sulotion(im talking about the Clinton layout in taba and not the first taba if youve got confused..)
your freedom fighters are only stoping and killing any chance for peace,your "revolution" will never happen until the Orginazations will get the Idea of the israeli state,the idea that the whole jerusalem will never be theirs and not even tel-aviv.
you should check the leaders view"s like i did,AS a top fatah member said: "the intifada is not our way of getting a bigger part of israel in a peace plan,its for winning israel in the war"(including tel-aviv Etc)
plus dont twist things around it was the palstinians who refused to this offer becuse of the returning right and a few more other reasons..

BTW:i dont really beileve youre "facts" about 96,becuse Shimon peres was the prime minister beck then..

1996 massacres

Barak's offer at Camp David was garbage. But negotiations did not end. Another meeting was held in Taba where there was progress. Then Barak closed negotiations because of the intifada and because he was facing Sharon in the elections. Israel was never serious about a true two state solution based on equality and respect for the inalienable human rights of all people. The right of return was only a part of it.

1996 was a horrible year for Palestinians. I'm not asking you to believe my facts. You can choose to keep your zionist eyes closed, that's up to you. But let me refresh your memory. First of all Shimon Peres is not an angel. Either way, it was the second half of 1996 where it got bad. I believe Netanyahu was PM then. There is a lot more than what I posted below but I don't want to take more space than I already have.

September 25, 1996
Gaza witnesses its bloodiest day ever, as the number of Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip rises to 25.

As of 18.00 this evening, 14 Palestinians had been injured in Rafah, six in Khan Younis, and two in the middle camps of the Gaza Strip. Israeli helicopter gunners are currently opening fire on civilian areas in Rafah itself. Israeli Defense Force installations are being reinforced within the Gaza Strip, while Israeli soldiers are continuing to use live ammunition against Palestinian civilians.

After a period of calm this morning, the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights� fieldworkers report that clashes have broken out in Rafah, Khan Younis, and near Kfar Darom settlement in the middle of the Gaza Strip. Israeli soldiers are using lethal force randomly and the number of injuries is increasing by the hour.

It has been reported that Israeli forces have continued to fire randomly at Palestinians in the West Bank, including at the Friday prayers at Al-Aqsa Mosque, where it is reported that three Palestinians worshippers were killed today and some 70 injured.

Israeli occupying forces throughout the Gaza Strip acted without control and fired randomly at Palestinian civilians, killing many and wounding hundreds. This is evident from the fact that Israeli fire was directed at the torsos and heads of Palestinians, clearly aiming to kill or grievously injure. Also, high-powered high-calibre automatic weapons were used by Israeli forces. The Israeli forces reinforced their positions with tanks, armored personnel carriers, and helicopters and these were employed to fire indiscriminately into heavily populated in Rafah, Khan Younis, and near Kfar Darom settlement.

An updated list of the names of Palestinian civilians killed, as well as any additional information available regarding residency, age, and the nature of injury follows:

1. Nura Musa Abu Sa�ad. From Deir al-Balah, 13 years old, shot in head.

2. Qasim Suleiman Al-Buhisi. From Zawaydah village, 16 years old, head injuries.

3. Mohammed Al-Bayumi. From Rafah, 16 years old, head injuries.

4. Hani Jalal Musa. From Deir al-Balah, 18 years old, bodily injuries.

5. Riziq Suleiman Al-Hawajri. From Zawaydah Village, 30 years old, bodily injuries.

6. Ahmad Salim Al-Najar. From Khan Younis, 19 years old, head injuries.

7. Mohammed �Abdul Karim Al-Astal. From Khan Younis, 12 years old.

8. �Abdul Majid Saleh Hamad. From Khan Younis, 23 years old, chest injuries.

9. Mohammed Fathi Hasballah. 20 years old, shot in chest

10. Hazim Fawzi Saqer. 20 years old, shot in head.

11. Rashad Khader Abu Quta. 18 years old, shot in the head.

12. Hassan Mohammed al-Yazji. From Jabaliya, 28 years old, shot in the head.

In addition, at least 315 wounded Palestinians have been treated in the Gaza Strip�s three main hospitals and in several clinics in Rafah. This number does not include hundreds of wounded who have been
treated in other local clinics.

A Bloody Day in the Gaza Strip

Published @ 08.30 GMT (10.30 local time) 26 September

From the very early hours of Thursday, 26 September 1996, a state of extreme tension has prevailed in the Gaza Strip, as protests, sparked by the massacre of Palestinian civilians at the hands of the Israeli armed forces in the West Bank, erupted throughout the Gaza Strip. Incidents of protest and violence have been concentrated in areas close to Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip and near crossroads controlled by Israeli military forces, especially in the areas of Kfar Dorom and Netsarim in the middle of the Gaza Strip, in Rafah, and around the Erez checkpoint on the northern border of the Gaza Strip with Israel.

A special team from the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights is closely monitoring the events which are currently occurring all over the Gaza Strip. Our field workers have reported that Israeli soldiers are using excessive force and shooting randomly at demonstrating Palestinian civilians, in clashes the likes of which have not been seen since the redeployment of Israeli forces in May 1994.

According to information obtained by the Centre as of 08.30 GMT (10.30 local time), at least five Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israeli soldiers using live ammunition, including a 13-year-old girl, while the number of Palestinians wounded is over 100. Gaza�s hospitals are in a state of emergency, and the sirens of ambulances transporting more wounded from the areas where clashes are taking place can be heard racing through the streets.

The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights is calling upon the international community for immediate and urgent intervention to put an end to the Israeli massacres of Palestinian civilians and to stop the bloodshed in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

The Palestinian Centre holds the Israeli armed forces and the Israeli government totally responsible for the deterioration of the current situation and for the killing of Palestinian civilians in cold blood.

NOTE: The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights has set up a special operations room to monitor events as they unfold, and will continue to publish information about the developing situation.

Palestinian is owning you all..

Mjusik Cox sucker.. read some Amnesty International reports so you have an IDea about what youare talking about..

And you wated a case where the IDF killed children!!!

quote:

In October 2001, Harper's magazine published the "Gaza Diary" of journalist Chris Hedges. Hedges' entry for June 17, 2001 provides even more shocking evidence of the wanton and deliberate killing of Palestinian children by Israeli soldiers at Gaza's Khan Yunis refugee camp. Hedges writes: "I sit in the shade of a palm-roofed hut on the edge of the dunes, momentarily defeated by the heat, the grit, the jostling crowds, the stench of the open sewers and rotting garbage. A friend of Azmi's brings me, on a tray, a cold glass of tart, red carcade juice." "Barefoot boys, clutching kites made out of scraps of paper and ragged soccer balls, squat a few feet away under scrub trees. Men in flowing white or gray galabias -- homespun robes -- smoke cigarettes in the shade of slim eaves. Two emaciated donkeys, their ribs protruding, are tethered to wooden carts with rubber wheels." "It is still. The camp waits, as if holding its breath. And then, out of the dry furnace air, a disembodied voice crackles over a loudspeaker." ""Come on, dogs," the voice booms in Arabic. "Where are all the dogs of Khan Younis? Come! Come!"" "I stand up. I walk outside the hut. The invective continues to spew: "Son of a bitch!" "Son of a whore!" "Your mother's ****!"" "The boys dart in small packs up the sloping dunes to the electric fence that separates the camp from the Jewish settlement. They lob rocks toward two armored jeeps parked on top of the dune and mounted with loudspeakers. Three ambulances line the road below the dunes in anticipation of what is to come." "A percussion grenade explodes. The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter, running clumsily across the heavy sand. They descend out of sight behind a sandbank in front of me. There are no sounds of gunfire. The soldiers shoot with silencers. The bullets from the M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children's slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos." "Yesterday at this spot the Israelis shot eight young men, six of whom were under the age of eighteen. One was twelve. This afternoon they kill an eleven-year-old boy, Ali Murad, and seriously wound four more, three of whom are under eighteen. Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered -- death squads gunned them down in El Salvador and Guatemala, mothers with infants were lined up and massacred in Algeria, and Serb snipers put children in their sights and watched them crumple onto the pavement in Sarajevo -- but I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport."

Suck my Cox

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik what would you cal it then?

I'd call it, so much hate and resentment against the Jew's from the Arab/Muslim camp that it drives them to kill Jews as an honourable deed.

We are not after them for one specific act of terror, but rather against a whole infrastructure. A cycle means, �tit-for-tat�, Israel plays more along the lines of ultimately eliminating terror, and not just retaliation for �one� specific act of it.

If the Arabs put down their weapons today their would be no more violence, on the other hand, if the Jewish state surrendered its arms, there would be no more Israel.... and the pattern would continue until we end up where history repeats itself...genocide.

Re: Re: Resistance

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik exactly and when you retards chil the fuck out and stop blowing shit up you will get your land all to yourself. fuck, Israel is holding this giant peace of steak above you saying "sit doggie, sit" and all you keep doing is jummping up on them. just sit the fuck down and eat your food.

SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL!

quote:

Originally posted by Arafuct If the Arabs put down their weapons today their would be no more violence, on the other hand, if the Jewish state surrendered its arms, there would be no more Israel...

this simple arguement is basicly what it winds down to.
anyway you look at it the misery that is befacing the palestinians today could all just go away if the terrorists deside to disband completely. no more israeli state terrorism, no more civilian casualties, no more propertie damage, no more road blocks. Israel has proven that it can be held as a responsible peaceful neighbour when relations are friendly (ie Egypt, Jordan). On the other hand if israel were to stop its self defense it would be only a matter of seconds before terrorists take advantage of the lowered secuirty (ie suicide bombings following the oslo accords). palestine has so much to gain by fixing the terrorism that resides within their power. israel has so much to lose if it does not defend itself.

'Palestinian', you win the prize for the most shameless propaganda ever published on this forum. I'm about to decide if starting a dialogue with you has any sense at all.

One thing, though.

"September 25, 1996
Gaza witnesses its bloodiest day ever, as the number of Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip rises to 25.
"

Should I list all the terrorist attack which resulted in an Israeli death toll higher than 25?

Palestinian i would like to let you know that your posts don't go unheaded, the general consensus may believe your posts are propaganda (and what do you expect trying to explain concepts very challenging to these nationalists?) If you persevere you may get through to those with above room temperature IQ's

Using concepts such as violence / revenge as an instinctual characteristic of humanity is probably the most effective way to convey this information. Although we all have very different ideals, we have the same collective instincts, our own perception of justice.

I often draw comparisons between the Likud party and certain national socialist parties of old, not to incite indignant invective, but to show that none of us are any different and our ideals are completely circumstantial. If melech_mike / djbaron were raised in impoverished Palestine they would be first in line to take justice into their own hands..

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy this simple arguement is basicly what it winds down to. anyway you look at it the misery that is befacing the palestinians today could all just go away if the terrorists deside to disband completely. no more israeli state terrorism, no more civilian casualties, no more propertie damage, no more road blocks. Israel has proven that it can be held as a responsible peaceful neighbour when relations are friendly (ie Egypt, Jordan). On the other hand if israel were to stop its self defense it would be only a matter of seconds before terrorists take advantage of the lowered secuirty (ie suicide bombings following the oslo accords). palestine has so much to gain by fixing the terrorism that resides within their power. israel has so much to lose if it does not defend itself.

what about the many years before the uprising began? before anyone took up arms? no deal was reached then

quote:

Originally posted by tathi Palestinian i would like to let you know that your posts don't go unheaded, the general consensus may believe your posts are propaganda (and what do you expect trying to explain concepts very challenging to these nationalists?) If you persevere you may get through to those with above room temperature IQ's Using concepts such as violence / revenge as an instinctual characteristic of humanity is probably the most effective way to convey this information. Although we all have very different ideals, we have the same collective instincts, our own perception of justice. I often draw comparisons between the Likud party and certain national socialist parties of old, not to incite indignant invective, but to show that none of us are any different and our ideals are completely circumstantial. If melech_mike / djbaron were raised in impoverished Palestine they would be first in line to take justice into their own hands..

You are very intelligent tathi, thanks

As for the others,
Palestinians ended the first uprising in 1993 to give Israel a chance to stop its aggression. The Americans would never even think of stopping their revolution to give Britain a chance back then. You're not supposed to give the murderer a chance when you revolt against him, but we have. We gave 9 years of Oslo. Israeli military kept killing civilians. They kept torturing people. Even before the first uprising, Israel wouldn't recognize Palestinian right to self determination. Who are you trying to deceive? We have let down our weapons countless times. You just don't hear about it. You only hear about it when some Hamas member has revenge. There's a lot more to it than that. Why should a defenseless people stop resisting the fourth most powerful military in the world that keeps taking their land, destroying farms, orchards, homes and trees? On what basis will the Israeli military end its occupation fully if we stop? Whenever negotiations happen, Israel takes more land and the wall keeps being built and more people are denied access to hospitals and schools. We have announced that if you end the occupation we will not fight you. And what do you mean Israel will cease to exist? Think about what you're saying. IT'S THE FOURTH MOST POWERFUL MILITARY IN THE WORLD. AGAINST ONE OF THE WEAKEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. GO back to Israel. Take your tanks, soldiers, roadblocks, checkpoints, settlements, your wall, your curfews, your collective punishments and extrajudicial assissinations, your gas grenades, and go back to Israel. Reinforce the border if you wish. But please, tell that annoying helicopter to move away from above my grandfather's house. His face turns yellow with fright every time he hears it hovering above the house. Get off my land.

Well, all I'll say it's nice to finally have a person who can shed some light on the conflict from the palestinian side. It'll be interesting to see how the situation will develop.

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian You are very intelligent tathi, thanks As for the others, Palestinians ended the first uprising in 1993 to give Israel a chance to stop its aggression. The Americans would never even think of stopping their revolution to give Britain a chance back then. You're not supposed to give the murderer a chance when you revolt against him, but we have. We gave 9 years of Oslo. Israeli military kept killing civilians. They kept torturing people. Even before the first uprising, Israel wouldn't recognize Palestinian right to self determination. Who are you trying to deceive? We have let down our weapons countless times. You just don't hear about it. You only hear about it when some Hamas member has revenge. There's a lot more to it than that. Why should a defenseless people stop resisting the fourth most powerful military in the world that keeps taking their land, destroying farms, orchards, homes and trees? On what basis will the Israeli military end its occupation fully if we stop? Whenever negotiations happen, Israel takes more land and the wall keeps being built and more people are denied access to hospitals and schools. We have announced that if you end the occupation we will not fight you. And what do you mean Israel will cease to exist? Think about what you're saying. IT'S THE FOURTH MOST POWERFUL MILITARY IN THE WORLD. AGAINST ONE OF THE WEAKEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. GO back to Israel. Take your tanks, soldiers, roadblocks, checkpoints, settlements, your wall, your curfews, your collective punishments and extrajudicial assissinations, your gas grenades, and go back to Israel. Reinforce the border if you wish. But please, tell that annoying helicopter to move away from above my grandfather's house. His face turns yellow with fright every time he hears it hovering above the house. Get off my land.

myths�
Can you stop dropping standardic slogans and abandon over-simplification? You draw us a picture where brutal military meets a bunch of humiliated angels. Who do you try to fool? I've never heard a more naive description of the post-Oslo period, you're ridiculous!
"Israeli military kept killing civilians". That's teletubby level.

Until the beginnings of the 90s the PLO declared that it won't rest until Israel was destroyed. That was the official PLO policy, just like today's Hamas. It was only after American pressure (establishing a new "order" which began with the 1991 Madrid conference) that the PLO leadership started to accept a two-state solution. After hesistating long time (which, I think, is pretty plausible given the experiences Israel had with Arafat and his gang) Israeli entered negotations reuslting in the Oslo-agreements where the Palestinians gained de facto independence. Until 2000 the PLO controlled more than 95% of the Palestinian population. Arafat had long enough time to create a basis on which a final peace agreement could be reached. However, he didn't care about economic growth (despite the fact that no other people on the world received as much money from the EU / US as the Palestinians......If u wanna know where the money went I'd suggest you take an atlas and look for "Zurich" and "Paris") education, not even the simplest infrastructure or a regular police force. Instead of preparing his people for a compromise he kept insisting on the "holy right to return to palestine" or bullshitting about "dying as a martyr for jerusalem". He finally proved that he's not up to a peaceful solution when he rejected both Taba and the Camp David offert. It's simple and clear, no need to look for excuses: "General Arafat" (remember how he insisted on being called GENERAL when being interviews by CNN's Christiana Amanpour 2 years ago?) will never change the uniform to a regular suit. He doesn't wanna end up as a political leader with *responsibilities", all he cares about is his role as "marytr", fighter, rebell..whatever. He doesnt care for his own people. Neither do the other corrupt basatards such as the al aqusa martyrs, Hamas or Jihad. All they want is power and destruction.
Bottom Line: As long as the palestinian leaders will prefer Israel's destruction to fulfillment of Palestinian hopes and aspirations, you'll see the IDF reacting again and again. cause and effect is what they call it.

Re: 1996 massacres

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian Barak's offer at Camp David was garbage. But negotiations did not end. Another meeting was held in Taba where there was progress. Then Barak closed negotiations because of the intifada and because he was facing Sharon in the elections.

thats not true ,the offers was Documented and there were witnesses to this offers and for the refusal of the pal",and about the election shit,youve totaly twisted things around,the pal" thought that they will get more from sharon and bush and this was one of their reasons to reject the offer,other reasons are:they thought that the intifada will get them more cards on the next peace offer(as the presidential secutery said:"theres no rush to pick the fruits of the intifada right awey",the terror Org. leaders like the Fatah"s maroan barguti is the ones to agree the most with this reason,and as you know terror=no agreement),they didnt want to leave the "returning right" and many other reasons,and this is only making my facts stronger,beileve me when i say that the pal" dont want only what they deserve

quote:

Israel was never serious about a true two state solution based on equality and respect for the inalienable human rights of all people. The right of return was only a part of it.

not true,israel wants to solve this problem more then any one else,but you cant do peace with an authority that sometimes cant and mostly dont want to control all of its powers,and even sponsering terror, that will never lead to a pal" state.
like ive said,the international community is only admitting in section 194 that say that the refuges should get beck to their home,but not to their homeland=israel and also the international community has accepted some of israel"s sulotions to the refuge problem in Taba .
the UN is always right,you said it!you cant be selective about their opinions when you wants to.

quote:

1996 was a horrible year for Palestinians. I'm not asking you to believe my facts. You can choose to keep your zionist eyes closed, that's up to you. But let me refresh your memory. First of all Shimon Peres is not an angel. Either way, it was the second half of 1996 where it got bad. I believe Netanyahu was PM then. There is a lot more than what I posted below but I don't want to take more space than I already have. September 25, 1996 Gaza witnesses its bloodiest day ever, as the number of Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip rises to 25. As of 18.00 this evening, 14 Palestinians had been injured in Rafah, six in Khan Younis, and two in the middle camps of the Gaza Strip. Israeli helicopter gunners are currently opening fire on civilian areas in Rafah itself. Israeli Defense Force installations are being reinforced within the Gaza Strip, while Israeli soldiers are continuing to use live ammunition against Palestinian civilians. After a period of calm this morning, the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights� fieldworkers report that clashes have broken out in Rafah, Khan Younis, and near Kfar Darom settlement in the middle of the Gaza Strip. Israeli soldiers are using lethal force randomly and the number of injuries is increasing by the hour. It has been reported that Israeli forces have continued to fire randomly at Palestinians in the West Bank, including at the Friday prayers at Al-Aqsa Mosque, where it is reported that three Palestinians worshippers were killed today and some 70 injured. Israeli occupying forces throughout the Gaza Strip acted without control and fired randomly at Palestinian civilians, killing many and wounding hundreds. This is evident from the fact that Israeli fire was directed at the torsos and heads of Palestinians, clearly aiming to kill or grievously injure. Also, high-powered high-calibre automatic weapons were used by Israeli forces. The Israeli forces reinforced their positions with tanks, armored personnel carriers, and helicopters and these were employed to fire indiscriminately into heavily populated in Rafah, Khan Younis, and near Kfar Darom settlement. An updated list of the names of Palestinian civilians killed, as well as any additional information available regarding residency, age, and the nature of injury follows: 1. Nura Musa Abu Sa�ad. From Deir al-Balah, 13 years old, shot in head. 2. Qasim Suleiman Al-Buhisi. From Zawaydah village, 16 years old, head injuries. 3. Mohammed Al-Bayumi. From Rafah, 16 years old, head injuries. 4. Hani Jalal Musa. From Deir al-Balah, 18 years old, bodily injuries. 5. Riziq Suleiman Al-Hawajri. From Zawaydah Village, 30 years old, bodily injuries. 6. Ahmad Salim Al-Najar. From Khan Younis, 19 years old, head injuries. 7. Mohammed �Abdul Karim Al-Astal. From Khan Younis, 12 years old. 8. �Abdul Majid Saleh Hamad. From Khan Younis, 23 years old, chest injuries. 9. Mohammed Fathi Hasballah. 20 years old, shot in chest 10. Hazim Fawzi Saqer. 20 years old, shot in head. 11. Rashad Khader Abu Quta. 18 years old, shot in the head. 12. Hassan Mohammed al-Yazji. From Jabaliya, 28 years old, shot in the head. In addition, at least 315 wounded Palestinians have been treated in the Gaza Strip�s three main hospitals and in several clinics in Rafah. This number does not include hundreds of wounded who have been treated in other local clinics. A Bloody Day in the Gaza Strip Published @ 08.30 GMT (10.30 local time) 26 September From the very early hours of Thursday, 26 September 1996, a state of extreme tension has prevailed in the Gaza Strip, as protests, sparked by the massacre of Palestinian civilians at the hands of the Israeli armed forces in the West Bank, erupted throughout the Gaza Strip. Incidents of protest and violence have been concentrated in areas close to Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip and near crossroads controlled by Israeli military forces, especially in the areas of Kfar Dorom and Netsarim in the middle of the Gaza Strip, in Rafah, and around the Erez checkpoint on the northern border of the Gaza Strip with Israel. A special team from the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights is closely monitoring the events which are currently occurring all over the Gaza Strip. Our field workers have reported that Israeli soldiers are using excessive force and shooting randomly at demonstrating Palestinian civilians, in clashes the likes of which have not been seen since the redeployment of Israeli forces in May 1994. According to information obtained by the Centre as of 08.30 GMT (10.30 local time), at least five Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israeli soldiers using live ammunition, including a 13-year-old girl, while the number of Palestinians wounded is over 100. Gaza�s hospitals are in a state of emergency, and the sirens of ambulances transporting more wounded from the areas where clashes are taking place can be heard racing through the streets. The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights is calling upon the international community for immediate and urgent intervention to put an end to the Israeli massacres of Palestinian civilians and to stop the bloodshed in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. The Palestinian Centre holds the Israeli armed forces and the Israeli government totally responsible for the deterioration of the current situation and for the killing of Palestinian civilians in cold blood. NOTE: The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights has set up a special operations room to monitor events as they unfold, and will continue to publish information about the developing situation.

first of all when i said that there were terror attacks in 96 what i meant was the peres admin.
taken from BBC:

quote:

February/March 1996 Series of Hamas suicide bomb attacks, killing 57 israelies

keep in mind that there were no hard militery action aginst the pal" in that time and there were still Scuicide boombers,so what do we learn?and i addition we also learn that the militery actions under the netanyahu admin. came as a RESPONSE



and now about what you wrote,i saw some diffrente stories:
from BBC

quote:

At least 10 Israelis and 20 palastinians have been killed and hundreds wounded in two days of fighting --

besides that i havent saw what you wrote in any other objective news site(even though BBC is a little more anti-israel),do you really want me to beileve any section of the PO that spends billions on terror and scuicide boombers comes out of it sections?!



and here is more violations of the oslo agreements PO:http://www.geocities.com/colosseum/.../violation.html
notice the violation of human right from the PO as well


BTW:do you even like trance or are you here just for the poletics?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.