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-- For all people from the USA
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Originally posted by Aya Brea I turned 18 back in February, so I haven't gotten to vote yet, but I don't know if I even will.

As close of an election as we had last time around, no one can say now "My vote does not count or means anything"... When president was selected on mere numbers, you know that your vote does count!

I don't know about the rest of you all, but I will vote for Bush...

TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE! Him and his crew who took our Constitution and made it worthless. The same people who took your freedom away and are in the process of creating the military state. We are heading towards dictatorship - mark my words. If Bush, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld and Associates get what they want.

I have never felt so ashamed of being from America... being American.

I'll get off my soap box now... just do what MTV tells you to do - Rock the Vote! (hmmmmm... ok maybe not, but still go and vote!)

Re: For all people from the USA

quote:

Originally posted by DaveSaenz Do you guys vote? If more young people would vote we could be a powerful voting bloc. Instead they trample on us because of our apathy. I know it's a pain in the ass to vote, but if you don't, you can't complain about why you can't find a job, why your parents or relatives are losing their jobs, why your cousin is in Iraq dodging terrorists' bullets for energy companies, why you pay taxes for social security while it won't be of any help to you when you're old (if trends continue), why you're having trouble paying for college while Bill Gates is 4 billion richer from tax breaks, why you get an asthma attack when you breath the air in some cities, why it's unsafe to eat more than one can of tuna fish per week because of high levels of heavy metals in the oceans, why the last 3 percent of the Earth's giant redwood trees could soon be lost to greed, why most other countries hate us, why the government still insists on a war on drugs when many police officers talk of how fruitless it is, why 12 year old little girls in housing projects are being sued by large corporate interests instead of adopting a more sensible approach to file sharing.... Don't you want this to mean something again? I do. Thanks for your time. <3 David

i had a lot of trouble reading your post with that way too big image so i am quoting it so it is readable.

yes, i vote. doesnt seem to be making much difference to get what i want but i vote anyway.

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Originally posted by `pr0digy Voting just shows that your part of the system... Don't vote, get everyone to NOT vote. When there's a "None of the above" option, THEN vote.

The apathy of youth ... voting AFFECTS changes in the direction you wish. Of course no single candidate will 100% reflect your every single desire because it is simply impossible for a single candidate to satisfy the desires of 250 million people. It is your DUTY therefore to vote for the candidate that MOST reflects your opinions or provide support for the candidate that is running on your platform. If you don't like the two main parties, it is your duty to support an independant party such that it can gain greater support and recognition in order to spread the word to other voters. Everybody nowadays looks for instant gratification ... "oh none of the candidates I like are popular enough to win so I'm not going to bother voting." A democracy is only as strong as its constitutents. If you desire change, get off your lazy ass and make an effort to affect change.

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Originally posted by umes23 do you really think you can attribute things like why you don't have a job or why your job sucks to the president?

I never mentioned the president, but perhaps you were not addressing me in your saying that.

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i think this is probably naiive. anyway, the "choices" you get in this democracy are not really options. you have two parties and only their nominees that will ever be voted to office.

Yes I think it is being Naive on your part. I know the two largest parties have a strong and loyal constituency, but there are still independents/members of other parties who make it into office. Look at Jessie Ventura.

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in the grand scheme of things, it's a choice between two very close things. the distinctions that seperate democrats and republicans are minute.

If you're talking about a comparison between GW Bush, and say Joe Lieberman, I'd tend to agree with you. This is not always true however. Arnold (let's just call him the 'terminator' since I can't spell his last name) is a Republican mainly on economic policy alone. He is pro-choice, and far from right-wing on other important social issues. Howard Dean is very much the opposite of Bush in most of his ideals, and Wes Clark seems hard to guage at this time.

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it is impossible to vote someone into presidency who actually stands for something different or novel. if that's what you want, who are you going to vote for?

You should vote for the person/persons who best represent your ideals.

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i have friends that really like nader for example. they might vote, but their vote is just a record somewhere in the books. it will never count in consequence. if people feel this way and decide not to vote, i understand their 'apathy'. it's basically refusing to make the choice between two things you don't agree with.

I like some of what Nader has to say as well.
If enough people voted for the members of Nader's party, they could at the very least make members of the democratic party take a look at the issues that caused some of their core constituency to defect. At the very most they could even win some positions in power. This would help the democrats to improve themselves in the long-run.

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Originally posted by occrider The apathy of youth ... voting AFFECTS changes in the direction you wish. Of course no single candidate will 100% reflect your every single desire because it is simply impossible for a single candidate to satisfy the desires of 250 million people. It is your DUTY therefore to vote for the candidate that MOST reflects your opinions or provide support for the candidate that is running on your platform. If you don't like the two main parties, it is your duty to support an independant party such that it can gain greater support and recognition in order to spread the word to other voters. Everybody nowadays looks for instant gratification ... "oh none of the candidates I like are popular enough to win so I'm not going to bother voting." A democracy is only as strong as its constitutents. If you desire change, get off your lazy ass and make an effort to affect change.

I'm all for making an effort to affect change. When your going to overthrow the piece of shit "democracy" we enjoy now, stop by my place and hook me up with an AK, I'll be waiting.

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Originally posted by `pr0digy I'm all for making an effort to affect change. When your going to overthrow the piece of shit "democracy" we enjoy now, stop by my place and hook me up with an AK, I'll be waiting.

do you REALLY believe what you write?
BTW. democracy is perfectly suited for being overthrown using the system. Start a party, get into power and then you can renew/ improve the system if you wish.

You know, democracy is an AWEFUL way to run a country, but it's be best anyone has found yet.

quote:

Originally posted by `pr0digy I'm all for making an effort to affect change. When your going to overthrow the piece of shit "democracy" we enjoy now, stop by my place and hook me up with an AK, I'll be waiting.

Well if your system of governance is so great I'm sure you won't have any problems attracting the masses to vote it in place. Or you can use your AK to "force" your utopian democracy (whatever vision you have of it) on the people I suppose.

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Originally posted by drizzt81 do you REALLY believe what you write? BTW. democracy is perfectly suited for being overthrown using the system. Start a party, get into power and then you can renew/ improve the system if you wish. You know, democracy is an AWEFUL way to run a country, but it's be best anyone has found yet.

Millions of people have died for the right to vote and now that they have the right they take it for granted. Everyone who enjoys living free and having a say, albeit a small one, should excercise their right to vote. You don't have to agree with all the platforms each candidate is running under, but choosing not to vote is like saying that you would just rather have someone be chosen for you. I know I only make up 1 vote, but I vote every year for who I FEEL would make a better president. Now, I know that the president doesnt make up 100% of the democratic party, that the house and senate push and pull at certain legislature, but just think of it this way. Had all of you gotten up and voted maybe you would have gotten enough votes for a senator who wanted to VETO the rave act...1 PERSON CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE and 1 STEP AT A TIME

quote:

Originally posted by LuNaSeA i can wait to vote man. good call. im moving out of this country if bush gets re-elected. and if he does, then whenever someone says americans are stupid, i'll just yep, most of them are.

did anyone else find this ironic? sorry lunasea, but you set yourself up for it...

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Originally posted by rainbow_marble did anyone else find this ironic? sorry lunasea, but you set yourself up for it...

why?
I mean she is just consequent, she says that she will try her best to vote for the right person and if that person doesn't get elected, instead of bitching about it, she exercises her right to leave the country.. isn't freedom a great thing?

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Originally posted by Redeye You don't have to agree with all the platforms each candidate is running under, but choosing not to vote is like saying that you would just rather have someone be chosen for you.

hmm.. i have an idea:

I will act as a PROXY voter for all you lazy bums that don't want to vote. Just write a letter -heck i will produce a standardized one FOR you that you only need to sign- that allows me to cast YOUR vote.

that would finally allow me to vote in the US

sounds like a good deal, doesn't it? You don't have to do anything and I get a couple (49% of the US population) of votes and get to practially 'pick' my president.

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Originally posted by CynepMeH As close of an election as we had last time around, no one can say now "My vote does not count or means anything"... When president was selected on mere numbers, you know that your vote does count! I don't know about the rest of you all, but I will vote for Bush... TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE! Him and his crew who took our Constitution and made it worthless. The same people who took your freedom away and are in the process of creating the military state. We are heading towards dictatorship - mark my words. If Bush, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld and Associates get what they want. I have never felt so ashamed of being from America... being American. I'll get off my soap box now... just do what MTV tells you to do - Rock the Vote! (hmmmmm... ok maybe not, but still go and vote!)

Your statement shows that you know very little or close to nothing about politics. Bush, Ashcroft and Rumsfield want anything but a dictatorship... They are combatting those who believe that our freedom is the root of all evil. Those people who ran planes into our towers are the ones im talking about. You believe George Bush is making the Constitution worthless... Bold comment to say if you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Tell me exactly how he is making it worthless? Making a military state? Perhaps the War in Iraq came a little early, however it was needed. Hussein was a madman... killing his own people, funding terrorist groups (terrorist groups in Israel) and running a Totalitarian Dictatorship. Once Ibrihim al Jafari and his Cabinet gets Iraq up and running again, they will be much more prosperous than they ever were, perhaps even able to set an example for other Middle East countries.

If anything, strong liberals want the constitution to be worthless. They believe in very strong, large national government and for the regular individual to be nearly worthless. They do not want anyone super wealthy, nor anyone in horrible poverty, but more of a balanced sense. To some that may sound nice, but it also is one step closer to Communism.

Im sorry that you are ashamed to be an American. Maybe you should move?

quote:

Originally posted by rainbow_marble You believe George Bush is making the Constitution worthless... Bold comment to say if you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Tell me exactly how he is making it worthless? Making a military state?

Not really sure, but if you guys mean "police state" in the Orwellian sense, then I think Bush is definetely moving towards it at full steam. The amount of "tab-keeping" that the government does is pretty big, and all of that is done in the name of "fighting terrorism".

If fighting the people (terrorists) that "attack our freedom" means that you destory the freedom, will you not loose by default?

About the "Maybe you should move?" part:
Why should he? I mean, he wants to improve the things that he thinks are wrong in this country, and he is entiteld to doing so.
I am not really proud to be German either; currently I feel that there isn't really much to Germany. Unfortunately, the structures that keep us (Germans) from recovering are so deeply entrechned that I don't see recovery coming up in any near future, hence I am moving out. Still I am voting for the party that I consider the most likly candidate for recovery, I am just working towards having an exit option on hand, in case things get worse.

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If anything, strong liberals want the constitution to be worthless. They believe in very strong, large national government and for the regular individual to be nearly worthless.

so tell me, what does LIBERAL mean? I heard that it means free, if you desire freedom, how can you want a strong national government? I see the Bush administration moving towards that much more than anyone else, looking at the Department of GeStaPo..err I mean Department of Homeland Security

Well, we certainly are losing our freedoms under the current administration. They're basically stripping away our constitutional rights one by one. If you can't see or understand that then something has to be wrong with you.

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/civil_liberties/


Here's a good book for you to read:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books

copied from the net:

As the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution reflect, individuals have the natural and God-given right to live their lives any way they choose, so long as their conduct is peaceful. It is the duty of government to protect, not destroy, these inherent and inalienable rights.

Thus, for well over a century, the American people said "No" to such anti-free-market government policies as income taxation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, immigration controls, economic regulations, drug laws, gun control, and public schooling. Despite the tragic exception of slavery, the result was the most prosperous, healthy, literate, and compassionate society in history. Unfortunately, in the 20th century, our country has moved in an opposite direction. Operating through the IRS, DEA, ATF, INS, FDA, FTC , and a multitude of other bureaucracies, our government has waged immoral and destructive wars on our freedom, our property, and our well-being.

quote:

Originally posted by rainbow_marble If anything, strong liberals want the constitution to be worthless. They believe in very strong, large national government and for the regular individual to be nearly worthless.

And what world are you talking about? Surely not ours. Maybe you're confusing liberalism with communism, because most liberals still want capitalism and free trade... and not so much government intervention, just the OPPOSITE of what you are saying.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X copied from the net: Thus, for well over a century, the American people said "No" to such anti-free-market government policies as income taxation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, immigration controls, economic regulations, drug laws, gun control, and public schooling.

But not having public schooling is -imho- a poor choice. The major problem with governmental regulation is striking the healthy balance.

And the US is currently moving away from that balance.. so is germany

quote:

Originally posted by rainbow_marble Your statement shows that you know very little or close to nothing about politics. Bush, Ashcroft and Rumsfield want anything but a dictatorship... They are combatting those who believe that our freedom is the root of all evil. Those people who ran planes into our towers are the ones im talking about. You believe George Bush is making the Constitution worthless... Bold comment to say if you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Tell me exactly how he is making it worthless? Making a military state? Perhaps the War in Iraq came a little early, however it was needed. Hussein was a madman... killing his own people, funding terrorist groups (terrorist groups in Israel) and running a Totalitarian Dictatorship. Once Ibrihim al Jafari and his Cabinet gets Iraq up and running again, they will be much more prosperous than they ever were, perhaps even able to set an example for other Middle East countries. If anything, strong liberals want the constitution to be worthless. They believe in very strong, large national government and for the regular individual to be nearly worthless. They do not want anyone super wealthy, nor anyone in horrible poverty, but more of a balanced sense. To some that may sound nice, but it also is one step closer to Communism. Im sorry that you are ashamed to be an American. Maybe you should move?

The truth is there is no such as thing as pure democracy. call me a conspiracy theorist, ut we do live in a quasi-dictatorship, and we aways will. we will never know true freedom, because true freedom is anarchy, it's freedom from everything.
I believe that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (rumsfeld, cheney, ashcroft and condi) and the dumbass Bush are trying to suck up every last iota of powe they can find. i know you're gonna argue with me, but face it, that the society we live in.

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 I believe that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (rumsfeld, cheney, ashcroft and condi) and the dumbass Bush are trying to suck up every last iota of powe they can find. i know you're gonna argue with me, but face it, that the society we live in.

and why wouldn't they? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

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Originally posted by drizzt81 and why wouldn't they? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

exactly my point. altho with these guys, they make it more obvious than past leaders.

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 exactly my point. altho with these guys, they make it more obvious than past leaders.

Bingo!

THEY ARE the incompetents for thinking that ALL U.S. Citizens are sheep. Many of us never grew the wool that they want to pull over our eyes.


http://www.infotoday.com/searcher/jun03/drake.shtml

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Bingo! THEY ARE the incompetents for thinking that ALL U.S. Citizens are sheep. Many of us never grew the wool that they want to pull over our eyes.

the question is:
Are ENOUGH U.S. Citizens sheep so that they can get away with it?

I pray not :S

Whoah this thread got big pretty quickly. At any rate, :

quote:

The truth is there is no such as thing as pure democracy. call me a conspiracy theorist, ut we do live in a quasi-dictatorship, and we aways will. we will never know true freedom, because true freedom is anarchy, it's freedom from everything. I believe that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (rumsfeld, cheney, ashcroft and condi) and the dumbass Bush are trying to suck up every last iota of powe they can find. i know you're gonna argue with me, but face it, that the society we live in.

You must know better ... come on.

Was bush left out of the 4 horsemen because they didn't want a horsemen that looked like a monkey?

Calling our current policy neo-McCarthyism wouldn't be too much of a stretch. It's just that now they have huge computer databases and spy-technology in which to gather their information.




Hi guys! How much are they paying you to lease YOUR souls?

It all adds up little by little. The press has even been dealing with it for some time now.

Now they're starting with secret supboena's?
http://www.ap.org/pages/whatsnew/coverquest.html

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