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Originally posted by ahlamalek We're not in Europe (even Europe have many moral standards).

MALEK! Don't make me get medieval on you, that's the point! This country has fucked-up moral standards!

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Its called respect, for yourself and the others around.

Doesn't violating people's freedom of expression constitute a lack of respect? If this girl doesn't even USE the lab, what right does she have to set the rules? Who determines what is disrespectful? And how is this disrespectful to anyone?

I keep hearing people say "it's disrespectful, it's a public place", but can anyone honestly explain HOW it's disrespectful?

This is all I want... in plain English, someone explain WHY the poster was disrespectful, without resorting to platitudes. I want a logical reason, not a phoney "standard" set by hypocritical over-the-top feminist extremists.

1. I have that poster. i LOVE it!

2. Durafei are you actually the only class that uses that room? I mean a university isnt elementary school where you only have one class. Could be other classes that use it. I'm not surprised at all they disallowed it. They reason they might allow it in europe or more liberal countries is because no one would be offended by it, not because they dont care. Just a different culture...

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Originally posted by DigiNut You guys are all missing the point of this post though. WHY is this obscene, inappropriate, why shouldn't it be allowed, etc.? Can someone honestly state what's wrong with it? It's just that people in this society have been trained to believe that "pornographic" images are somehow "wrong." Try meeting some European girls, they'll have very different opinions of all this...

theres no difference what society thinks about porn...it's still a place of learning and more importantly it is a public place of learning. if i was a gay guy that was paying lots of cash to be forced to look at almost naked girls i would be offended. theres nothing wrong with the pic itself, just where it was hung. you can't assume that some people won't be offended by nudity, and if u do, well thats just inconsiderate.

also the european thing is kind of weak because i happen to know for a fact that most euro universities are very consirvative and very respectful in regards to faculty. profs are always addressed as sir and students almost always stand up when speaking.

moreover, using the argument that our society was brought up thinking that porn was wrong is just arguing against yourself.

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Originally posted by DigiNut To elaborate on what brunette said... Malek, and the rest of you, I think the point Durafei has raised is that public or not public, what the hell is the problem with it? How is this picture offensive!? Honestly, some bitches take this shit too far, they insist that the world needs to be totally asexual or something. I'm sure these are the same types of people that can't take a compliment from any guy and go to watch the Vagina Monologues later on. It's not even about political correctness, it's just totally asinine. I can practically guarantee you that if a group of women posted up the opposite sort of picture, it would stay. People feel the need to constantly nag and bitch about how men are still "opressing" and "degrading" women with such pictures as if we've got something to apologize for.

and holy shit man...think about it...would you want to be forced to look at two guys kissing in underwear all day? I'm far from homophobic...i love fly and what used to be IT....but i still wouldnt want to see that everytime i had class.

political correctness is garbage. i hate being around people who are politically correct! in someways it's selfish! if i wanna see a poster two women kissing in my lab and no one else IN the lab minds then I will!!! don't come into my lab and tell me to take it down! mind your own business

what if i went into your bedroom and told you to take down your fucking n'sync posters and change your justin timberlake wallpaper on your desktop cuz i don't like it...im sure you wouldn't like that too much

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r HAHAAHAHHAA!! Have you been to college/university? lol... Sorry that statement sounds like MTV saying their programming is full of wholesome family values and then throw on Christine Agulara(sp? whatever the hell it is...) - Fighter...

hahaha i know that, girls at universities put so little on that us poor guys can't do our work right, and then authorities bitch that guys aren't doing good at schools

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Doesn't violating people's freedom of expression constitute a lack of respect? If this girl doesn't even USE the lab, what right does she have to set the rules? Who determines what is disrespectful? And how is this disrespectful to anyone?

your freedom ends where someone's else freedom starts. in that case, expressing herself about her disgust won over the guys expressing their ... euh horniness? You go to a club, say, hey girl i love your tities, can I put my **** in your ***** ? she's gonna slap you. are you gonna say "hey! freedom of speech!" hehehehe

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MALEK! Don't make me get medieval on you, that's the point! This country has fucked-up moral standards!

I don't think we have the right to judge or compare a society with another, let them be.

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Originally posted by DigiNut MALEK! Don't make me get medieval on you, that's the point! This country has fucked-up moral standards! Doesn't violating people's freedom of expression constitute a lack of respect? If this girl doesn't even USE the lab, what right does she have to set the rules? Who determines what is disrespectful? And how is this disrespectful to anyone? I keep hearing people say "it's disrespectful, it's a public place", but can anyone honestly explain HOW it's disrespectful? This is all I want... in plain English, someone explain WHY the poster was disrespectful, without resorting to platitudes. I want a logical reason, not a phoney "standard" set by hypocritical over-the-top feminist extremists.

If she doesn't use the lab, then how did she see it?

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Originally posted by Elmo-On-XTC political correctness is garbage. i hate being around people who are politically correct! in someways it's selfish! if i wanna see a poster two women kissing in my lab and no one else IN the lab minds then I will!!! don't come into my lab and tell me to take it down! mind your own business what if i went into your bedroom and told you to take down your fucking n'sync posters and change your justin timberlake wallpaper on your desktop cuz i don't like it...im sure you wouldn't like that too much

Are there at least 20 people in your room?

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Originally posted by DigiNut This is all I want... in plain English, someone explain WHY the poster was disrespectful, without resorting to platitudes. I want a logical reason, not a phoney "standard" set by hypocritical over-the-top feminist extremists.

You want an explanation as to why it might be offensive. Some people might see it as pornographic. An exploitation of female sexuality for entertainment. I certainly know what i feel when i see it. (and really i know what every guy is thinking too) I get a little friend poking my pants. There's two lesbians in bed making out in their underwear. I think the real purpose of the picture is pretty obvious. Its really not an 'expression' of lesbianism but a little bit of fun for kicks and boners.

sensorship crime sensorship...Blah blah blah... There are sensorship standards in every society. Even some you agree with. I dont think you would object if someone was asked to remove a NAZI poster they hung in a class room or soemthing that had ******s or 'kill the jews'. I certainly dont think most people would object to having that sensored. So its not sensorship you object to, its this particular picture. And if you have been living in Canada for more than a year or two you know that that would probably not be accepted. If you like the poster go hang it in your room and look at it in private. This isnt a form of sensorship you should be getting upset over.

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Originally posted by ahlamalek your freedom ends where someone's else freedom starts. in that case, expressing herself about her disgust won over the guys expressing their ... euh horniness? You go to a club, say, hey girl i love your tities, can I put my **** in your ***** ? she's gonna slap you. are you gonna say "hey! freedom of speech!" hehehehe

Yeah, you have the right to say that to a girl in a club, and she's got the right to slap you for it. She doesn't have the right to call the cops and have you ejected from the club because of it.

So, yeah, this girl had the right to be disgusted and complain, but it doesn't mean that the guys didn't have the right to put it up.

I'm still waiting to hear a LOGICAL explanation for why this can be considered disgusting and wrong.

If someone put up a poster of a Porsche, and a girl whined about it, I don't think people would really listen... so I'm sure you're saying "but that's NOT the same as putting up a poster of 2 chicks kissing!" Well HOW IS IT DIFFERENT to the extent of being offensive?

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Originally posted by discojoe You want an explanation as to why it might be offensive. Some people might see it as pornographic. An exploitation of female sexuality for entertainment. I certainly know what i feel when i see it. (and really i know what every guy is thinking too) I get a little friend poking my pants. There's two lesbians in bed making out in their underwear. I think the real purpose of the picture is pretty obvious. Its really not an 'expression' of lesbianism but a little bit of fun for kicks and boners.

Well that's a good point, but I'd have to ask how the "exploitation" of those two particular women (who obviously had the picture taken willingly!) equates to exploitation of women in general?

In fact, how does displaying the sexuality of any women equate to exploiting them? Does a poster of them kissing automatically imply that they're not good for anything else? How is this morally wrong? Since when did porn - and that poster isn't even showing skin - become hatred of women?

"Kill the jews" is inciting hatred and encouraging violent acts... I think that's slightly different.

P.S. I'm not getting particularly upset over this societal standard, I mean, I accept it, but I will say this: if any girl walks into my room and sees a sexy picture on my desktop (which, by the way, is not showing any skin either), and criticizes me over it, I'm kicking her out of the damn house on the spot.

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It's just that people in this society have been trained to believe that "pornographic" images are somehow "wrong." Try meeting some European girls, they'll have very different opinions of all this...

ok just for the record not all Euros think alike. I think the Euros you are talking about are the Germans and Dutch jk
Just because nudity and sex are more of natural thing in Europe doesn't mean that they have no manners

regarding your issue, i think it's a majority thing. when you are a minority you have to follow the majorities law.

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Doesn't violating people's freedom of expression constitute a lack of respect?

how about people who want express them selves by going naked to school?

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Originally posted by DigiNut I'm still waiting to hear a LOGICAL explanation for why this can be considered disgusting and wrong.

I'm affraid there's no such thing as a logical explanation for this case. That poster represents something that is abstract, our morality is abstract, and the way we each interpret what we see is abstract. So all this together leaves little to logics or black and white situations.

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In fact, how does displaying the sexuality of any women equate to exploiting them? Does a poster of them kissing automatically imply that they're not good for anything else? How is this morally wrong? Since when did porn - and that poster isn't even showing skin - become hatred of women?

Its not hatred, its degrading. You put 2 girls in a poster that kisses each other, and we all know what kind of ideas men get. It transforms those women into sexual toys and the girl who saw it has the right to bitch after it.

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Originally posted by brunette that is %^&*( ridiculous they can legalize gay marriages, they can be publicly affectionate but that, that is unacceptable I don't see the poster being in any way repugnant, distasteful or offensive

Well said, exactly my point! Gay and Lesbian Community of University of Waterloo also has EXACTLY the same poster hanging in their office, and nobody tried to take it down!
Not to mention that this poster was bought in Student Life Center in our university during traditional sale of posters in the begining of each semster.

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Originally posted by DigiNut In fact, how does displaying the sexuality of any women equate to exploiting them? Does a poster of them kissing automatically imply that they're not good for anything else? How is this morally wrong? Since when did porn - and that poster isn't even showing skin - become hatred of women?

well i think you for the most part see my point. but if you dont think this is true then ask yourself this. would it be alright if they posted a picture of two girls fucking each other with a dildoe? would that be alright? or what about a guy slapping a girl in the face with his dick and cumming in her eye. would you have any problem if the university asked for that to be removed? i mean afterall they chose to do that right? they weren't forced to do that. Does a poster of a girl with cum in her face imply shes good for anything else? I think you know you wouldnt make much of a fuss if they didnt allow that. I dont think you would want porn posted on the wall in your baby sisters nursury school. I dont think you would like somebody forcing your mother to look at bondage porno. You know full well sex can at times be offensive. When its offensive is different for everyone, but the fact is you see it CAN be offensive. And if it offends that girl whether you like it or not i think as a sign of respect to her you should simply take it down. Its about respect. Respect for your sisters and mothers and other women in society.

Its not just a picture of two women kissing. Its a picture of two half naked models making out in bed. It may not offend you or me but it seems to have offended somebody. I think her right to come to a comfortable environment outweighs your right to jerk off in class.

IF you want to make a point of this, put up a non erotic photo of a man and woman kissing.

if nobody complains, put the other back up. They complain about, then they are being unjust and SHOULDNT be able to have anything done about it.

that doenst mean that nothing would happen, but it should set a precedant/standard.

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Originally posted by ahlamalek I'm affraid there's no such thing as a logical explanation for this case. That poster represents something that is abstract, our morality is abstract, and the way we each interpret what we see is abstract. So all this together leaves little to logics or black and white situations. Its not hatred, its degrading. You put 2 girls in a poster that kisses each other, and we all know what kind of ideas men get. It transforms those women into sexual toys and the girl who saw it has the right to bitch after it.

good points man

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Originally posted by ahlamalek I'm affraid there's no such thing as a logical explanation for this case. That poster represents something that is abstract, our morality is abstract, and the way we each interpret what we see is abstract. So all this together leaves little to logics or black and white situations.

So basically what you're saying is that it's subjective. Thus, whose opinion is more important - the people who are in the lab 16 hours a day, or some ditz who happened to be passing by and will probably never go there again?

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Its not hatred, its degrading. You put 2 girls in a poster that kisses each other, and we all know what kind of ideas men get. It transforms those women into sexual toys and the girl who saw it has the right to bitch after it.

Yes, we know what kind of ideas men get, but how does that make the women sexual toys? There is something missing in the logic here, and that something is basically being filled in by the daily brainwashing we've gotten every day of our lives. Question your beliefs. What are they really based on?

Discojoe: Your point is well-taken, but where do you draw the line? A lot of things can be interpreted as sexual. A century ago, nude paintings were all the rage... now they're just pornographic. This debate has been going on for a long time in politics and has never quite been resolved, so don't try to portray it as so black-and-white here... there is a fine line between "art" and "porn" and it's really hard to say where that line is.

Didn't see j-spot's post until now, but that's similar to my point... I'd like to see how the same people react to an ordinary kissing photo.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Discojoe: Your point is well-taken, but where do you draw the line? A lot of things can be interpreted as sexual. A century ago, nude paintings were all the rage... now they're just pornographic. This debate has been going on for a long time in politics and has never quite been resolved, so don't try to portray it as so black-and-white here... there is a fine line between "art" and "porn" and it's really hard to say where that line is.

My whole point is that its not black and white. I really think you were trying to make it black and white. It is sensorship and therefore is wrong. There is a 'relative' fine line between art and porn. Again my point is somebody thought that poster crossed that line (and understandably so) and it bothered her. Again I think her right to a comfortable envrironment outweighs those students right to sexual excitement in a class room.
Sometimes the right to feedom of expression outweighs somebody elses right to comfortability. In this case it doesnt plain and simple. There are some kinds of sensorship issues worth raising arms to. This particular one isnt.

i see that poster around campus but it dont last too long in one spot...

what she finds OFFENSIVE is that she is probably too unattractive to be in a picture like that, so she doesnt want anybody else looking at those girls.. to that girl: taking that poster down wont make you any more attractive sorry

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Originally posted by discojoe My whole point is that its not black and white. I really think you were trying to make it black and white. It is sensorship and therefore is wrong. There is a 'relative' fine line between art and porn. Again my point is somebody thought that poster crossed that line (and understandably so) and it bothered her. Again I think her right to a comfortable envrironment outweighs those students right to sexual excitement in a class room.

I'm sorry, but where does the charter guarantee a "right to a comfortable environment?"

You're saying one person's morals outweighs the morals of 20 other people? Why, because those 20 other people are all men? I'm not seeing how, just because SHE says they crossed the line, it means that they DID cross it.

If several women who routinely used the lab had complained about this, then I could understand... but one girl, who rarely uses it? Come on...

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Originally posted by jdjd i see that poster around campus but it dont last too long in one spot... what she finds OFFENSIVE is that she is probably too unattractive to be in a picture like that, so she doesnt want anybody else looking at those girls.. to that girl: taking that poster down wont make you any more attractive sorry

This is a very cynical and, I'm sure many would say, inappropriate response to the issue, but I'm sorry to say I think it's probably true.


P.S. It's censorship!!

P.S. It's censorship!! [/QUOTE]

ya haha im still recovering from last joints...

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Originally posted by DigiNut I'm sorry, but where does the charter guarantee a "right to a comfortable environment?" You're saying one person's morals outweighs the morals of 20 other people? Why, because those 20 other people are all men? I'm not seeing how, just because SHE says they crossed the line, it means that they DID cross it.

where does the charter say a university can't control whats put on its walls?

she wasnt the one who asked for the poster to be removed remember. It was a whole commitee of people. Some of whom included men. they were obviously thought the poster was distasteful too.

I can't believe the 'come on' arguement... Come on its just a fucking poster. Is it really a loss to the world if the university doesnt want porn on its walls? Come on man is it really a big issue?

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Originally posted by discojoe she wasnt the one who asked for the poster to be removed remember. It was a whole commitee of people. Some of whom included men. they were obviously thought the poster was distasteful too.

You're basing this on what info? You don't know how it went... the girl may have walked in there screaming for it to be taken down, and they just gave in because they didn't want any trouble.

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Originally posted by DigiNut This is a very cynical and, I'm sure many would say, inappropriate response to the issue, but I'm sorry to say I think it's probably true.

so then what's your point? if you think its true then why hide it?

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