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-- Review of J00F: Fresh and Sound Emporium Oct 17 2003
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Hahn Thanks for the support Tim, and thanks to all those that came out to witness such an amazing set. In spite of the lackluster turnout John proved that he's a consumate professional and played an absolutely amazing set. We did our very best! Actually we had John booked before System got Scumfrog; it was originally Seb Fontaine @ System that night which would not have been an issue. Secondly, I'd like to think that the Toronto scene is healthy enough to support an event like the one we had on a different weekend than Armin and PvD. Obviously the scene isn't what it was. It's morons like you that make it not even worth our time and hard earned money to try and keep an otherwise withering scene alive. Instead of sitting on your high horse and name calling the people who really tried to do something so snot nosed punks like you have somewhere to go on the weekend I suggest you try it yourself. Thanks again to everyone who came out that night

well said my friend
and these people call themselves tranceaddicts.....

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

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Originally posted by KevinEarth well said my friend and these people call themselves tranceaddicts.....

yep...i am a TA

Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

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Originally posted by djeso .. you should've seen them there before making a cheese comment!!!

I was there for both eso
both nights man

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

quote:

Originally posted by charmscars i don't think that constitutes ownage. i think it's an unwise PR move to lash out on a public message board. i think it's understandable to explain the situation (re: the change from fontaine to scumfrog etc). I think it's difficult for many party-goers to understand some of the logistical difficulties and things that come up in planning parties and whatnot. I think this was Fresh's first TO party, and I'm sure they learned from it. The scene isn't what it used to be, and throwing parties can be difficult, especially when you are going up against superclubs like the Guvernment. best of luck in future endeavours, taraxo

I'm not interested in PR at this point Tara. I had every right to say what I said and I'll say it again in a second.

We made A LOT of sacrifices to put this party on for people. Whether it be driving to and from Kitchener to stand outside of clubs at 5am in the pouring rain and freezing cold on the weekends amid bottles being thrown at us and threats of violence, to putting the event on our credit cards to finance it. Not only are we left with a huge debt but we have to put up with people calling us names on message boards for the effort? Throw PR out the window, you're damn right I'll have words with anyone who shows us that kind of disrespect. It's like people (and surprisingly people on this very board) show contempt for new promoters who are trying to keep our community alive! Unbelievable!

I understand the importance of professionalism after working in this industry for 3 years, but I have no problems putting anyone in their place for showing that kind of disrespect; we don't deserve it.

Again, to those who lend us their support, thank-you very much; we really do appreciate it.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Hahn I'm not interested in PR at this point Tara. I had every right to say what I said and I'll say it again in a second. We made A LOT of sacrifices to put this party on for people. Whether it be driving to and from Kitchener to stand outside of clubs at 5am in the pouring rain and freezing cold on the weekends amid bottles being thrown at us and threats of violence, to putting the event on our credit cards to finance it. Not only are we left with a huge debt but we have to put up with people calling us names on message boards for the effort? Throw PR out the window, you're damn right I'll have words with anyone who shows us that kind of disrespect. It's like people (and surprisingly people on this very board) show contempt for new promoters who are trying to keep our community alive! Unbelievable! I understand the importance of professionalism after working in this industry for 3 years, but I have no problems putting anyone in their place for showing that kind of disrespect; we don't deserve it. Again, to those who lend us their support, thank-you very much; we really do appreciate it.

I didnt go to this event or to scumfrog for that matter so my opinion is very UN-important on this occasion, but I do have to say that we the toronto clubbers appreciate you promoters in everything you do. The scene would not survive without you guys! Keep up the good work even for the lackluster turnout keep doing it, it will get better and better!

Glad some of you guys had fun!

Unfortunatly the turnout went beyond poor... it was a frikkin disaster! Never in my wildest dreams did i think that after 4 months of planning, handing out 10, 000+ flyers and the fact that its JOOF spinning, that we would get less than 200 people to show up!

so in light of this I truly do hope all had a fun time, enjoyed the extra sound & lighting we brought in and the 18 trays of FREE fruit we painstakenly prepared for you because it will be my last, and probaly Fresh's.... much luv to the partiers and the scene that I have been involved in for the past 8 years... you all rock and I will see you on dancefloors everywhere, but we got taken to school on this one.... so much for bringing our vision to the megacity.

take care and party safe!

quote:

Originally posted by kip Glad some of you guys had fun! Unfortunatly the turnout went beyond poor... it was a frikkin disaster! Never in my wildest dreams did i think that after 4 months of planning, handing out 10, 000+ flyers and the fact that its JOOF spinning, that we would get less than 200 people to show up! so in light of this I truly do hope all had a fun time, enjoyed the extra sound & lighting we brought in and the 18 trays of FREE fruit we painstakenly prepared for you because it will be my last, and probaly Fresh's.... much luv to the partiers and the scene that I have been involved in for the past 8 years... you all rock and I will see you on dancefloors everywhere, but we got taken to school on this one.... so much for bringing our vision to the megacity. take care and party safe!

dont give up so soon guys... not everyone is successful in their first event...it couldve bene due to anything that the turnout was bad....

Sorry it didn't work out for you guys. But don't give up just yet ! Next time will definitely be better ! Hell, it took Tiesto 6 years of residency at Breda's local nightclub before he got any recognition..

Too bad I couldn't be there either, due to my tight schedule


PS: this is Durafei posting from Ortemy's account.

I know the pain of pushing 20K in flyers and having 1000 ppl show up for a 3000 person expected
It hurts alot.

If I had known a single person @ j00f I would have gone. being a n00b to a city can suck.

to all who lost their shirts on this party, dont give up. there was just bad 'circumstances' surrounding this weekend that killed alot of your crowd.
I think seeing 6k ppl @ pvd shows that there is a market, its jsut a matter of grabbing them.

Thanks for the fruit! Much appreciated.
I'm interested in some of tracks Fleming played...he played breaks for a bit (which was very different!)
I definitely caught the
Robert Miles Children, mix in.

Did he play any tracks from his upcoming release? Le Voyage EP?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

quote:

Originally posted by charmscars i don't think that constitutes ownage. i think it's an unwise PR move to lash out on a public message board.

I agree 100%. I think this is the best post you've ever made on t.a Tara. LOL!

I can't believe the promoter had the gaul to blame us for not coming out? Blaming the scene? LOL! And then...calling us "morons" and whatever the fuck else he said. Nice work.

The minute I saw the posting for this party, the first thought that came into my head was "it's gonna be a quiet show".

quote:

Originally posted by Ortemy Sorry it didn't work out for you guys. But don't give up just yet ! Next time will definitely be better ! Hell, it took Tiesto 6 years of residency at Breda's local nightclub before he got any recognition.. Too bad I couldn't be there either, due to my tight schedule PS: this is Durafei posting from Ortemy's account.

Shit, Ilia, dont do this You scared the hell out of me, I thought like wtf did I do last night, that I posted smth an hour ago and dont remember it


Anyways, I feel sorry for Fresh, but yeah, it's really hard to compete with those mega clubs like Guv and Systems. Just Mark Oliver(who's a great DJ, but still, u can hear him play every week) got more ppl last night in GUV( I was not there, my friends told me), then JOOF on Friday.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Hahn I'm not interested in PR at this point Tara. I had every right to say what I said and I'll say it again in a second. We made A LOT of sacrifices to put this party on for people. Whether it be driving to and from Kitchener to stand outside of clubs at 5am in the pouring rain and freezing cold on the weekends amid bottles being thrown at us and threats of violence, to putting the event on our credit cards to finance it. Not only are we left with a huge debt but we have to put up with people calling us names on message boards for the effort? Throw PR out the window, you're damn right I'll have words with anyone who shows us that kind of disrespect. It's like people (and surprisingly people on this very board) show contempt for new promoters who are trying to keep our community alive! Unbelievable! I understand the importance of professionalism after working in this industry for 3 years, but I have no problems putting anyone in their place for showing that kind of disrespect; we don't deserve it. Again, to those who lend us their support, thank-you very much; we really do appreciate it.

if you are not concerned w/ PR i guess you can say what you like. I truly feel bad that things didn't work out. I'm sure that issues such as ppl having midterms and a whole host of other reasons worked in tandem to create the situation. It sounds as if you had a vision and put a lot of heart into it.

however, ppl don't consider the promoter's and their situation when they chose to go to a party. Ppl don't say 'we owe these hardworking promoters- let's go to their party.' I'm sure that when you go to a party there are a number of different things you consider (ie. cost, teh dj playing, if you want to go to a party that night etc, if you have to work the next day). It seems like you are taking this as a personal attack that ppl didn't show up. In different circumstances this party probably would have worked.

It sucks that ppl insulted you w/o knowing the details. It isn't fair...but i think it's part and parcel of the industry.


taraxo

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Hahn I'm not interested in PR at this point Tara. I had every right to say what I said and I'll say it again in a second.

you know what...thats pretty stupid from a business perspective...as is throwing any party at all after a weekend like last. it was pretty empty for scumfrog as well from what i heard...not empty but you could tell pppl werent going out after the armin/pvd binge we all had.

so stop bitching...

you chose a bad location and a bad date...as far as im concerned...im glad u guys lost money (which im sure u did) because i like wwhen stupid ppl dont succeed. havent u learned anything from turbo/SE's past????

DUMBASS

and then u go on here and lash out at the ppl who were tired and/or wanted to see scumfrog more??? what a dumbass

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

quote:

Originally posted by charmscars if you are not concerned w/ PR i guess you can say what you like. I truly feel bad that things didn't work out. I'm sure that issues such as ppl having midterms and a whole host of other reasons worked in tandem to create the situation. It sounds as if you had a vision and put a lot of heart into it. however, ppl don't consider the promoter's and their situation when they chose to go to a party. Ppl don't say 'we owe these hardworking promoters- let's go to their party.' I'm sure that when you go to a party there are a number of different things you consider (ie. cost, teh dj playing, if you want to go to a party that night etc, if you have to work the next day). It seems like you are taking this as a personal attack that ppl didn't show up. In different circumstances this party probably would have worked. It sucks that ppl insulted you w/o knowing the details. It isn't fair...but i think it's part and parcel of the industry. taraxo

couldnt have said it better....

*sigh*

I don't think there was anything that Fresh could have done any better to have a great party... but Tara, you're right, the surrounding circumstances really took away from their spotlight. It wasn't one major thing that brought this event to its knees... it was a lot of little things that are hard to see 2 months before hand. I really really really would hate to see you guys give up after this one. You guys have come SOOO far in the past few years and you've learned so much. This time you came SO close to a killer party... I genuinely hope you don't all give up. Obviously a break is probably in order, but try again... maybe a year from now... maybe 2 years... whatever, you've gained so much knowledge about the scene and how to put a good party on it would be a waste of great experience (cuz there's no such thing as positive or negative... just knowledge gained... which is always good).

ANNND I STILL say... I can't wait for the next one

quote:

Originally posted by Dizc it was a lot of little things that are hard to see 2 months before hand

Ok this is what I have a problem with. I bet the promoters were bang on amazing for the night of. I bet the decor, the sound, the light and all that jazz was up to par. I bet they were brilliant promoters and you're right unforseen circumstances happen.

BUT...

The lineup is what didn't get me out. I'm sorry, but I've seen J00F three times now. And although he's brilliant, the lineup really wasn't all that fresh in an ever expanding and demanding Toronto scene. Bottom line. Let's not put the blame on everyone else, this is what pissed me off. It is a business, like every other business.

And in terms of harping on the ta's, that is such a bullshit move. We are here to support anything, and willing to pretty much fucking go anywhere for that anything. Fuck look at the support we gave Viva way the fuck in nowhere land, and we never bitched. Again, great PR move.

Know what Tara, you're absolutely right in your last post. I don't feel people owed it to us to show up just because we tried to put on a good party. That wasn't my point at all. Hey, shit happens, who am I to dictate how people spend their leisure time; I'm a partier too! The party flopped, oh well, we'll get over it and move on.
But I don't think we deserve the name calling for trying to make the effort. That was my WHOLE point. And let's face it, the scene has become polluted with people that just sit there on message boards and bash those who try and make the effort. NO ONE can deny that fact.

To those who have called us dumbasses for the timing of the event keep this in mind: we booked John over 2 months in advance from the party. Info on the surrounding events were released long after that, so we had no idea the other events were even happening when we planned our party and by that time it was too late anyway..
You don't book a dj like John '00' Fleming 1 month before your event; and you don't find out about competitive events 2 months before your event either. Think about what you say before you say something that makes no sense otherwise you make YOURSELVES look like dumbasses. I'll leave it at that.

I know there are some terrific people out there; I've met many of you in the last 3 years, many amazing people on this board. Thanks so much for your support. It's been a pleasure meeting some of you, I'll see you in the clubs, I still have alot of djing to do!

Here's my review:

DJ's:
Greg Benz
I got there around 12:30 to hear Greg Benz open. I thought he did an excellent job, starting with some progressive house then moving on to progressive Trance... setting up JOOF very nice!!

John "OO" Flemming
Holy Fuck!!!!! IF I were to pick a DJ as an example of what Trance should sound like then if definitely would be JOOF!!! This guy probably played the best set I've heard since 2001!!! The thing that I loved about his set was that it was 0% cheese, and it just got better and better as the night went on. Usually I know alot of the tracks being played by a dj, but this night i didn't know what most of them were.... one track I did recognize was Moogwai - Labrynth (i forgot which version), and another track he played was a new Digital Blonde song, which will be out in the future on JOOF recordings... wicked track forsure.

This party was well organized and the promoters, Fresh-Entertainment did a great job with picking a nice venue with great sound for this event, aswell as doing extra stuff for those that showed up to this event by preparing sticks of fresh fruit for everyone to enjoy. So I would like to Thank Fresh Entertainment for making this event happen.
The only disappointment I had was the lack of ppl that showed up for this event. It's sad to know that the scene has diminished so much, that an event like this ends up having such a low turn-out. If this were 99/00 a party like this would have been rammed. Respect to all that showed up, and keep supporting the scene!!!

I wasn't planning on attending either Scumfrog or J00F due to excessive exhaustion & exams, but a last minute decision and a drive from someone and I was on my way to Systems. And let me say that the venue was by far less than "busy", so yes it just goes to show you that not a lotta ppl were out that nite for various different reasons.

Dennis & Fresh, I'm sure that you guys put huge effort into this undertaking and I just want to say that as much as it hurts, don't let something like this bring you down. TO is a very tough market to crack and I've seen so many promoters fail in the past that it's just not worth killing yourself over for one failed event.

Perhaps next time you guys outta go with something a bit more lowkey and sort of establish your rapport with the rest of the community. I have no doubt that once people experience what you guys are all about they'll be more forthcoming and supportive in the future. I cannot however, attribute the low turnout with the state of the scene here. Trance in TO has never died, and the fact that this event didn't draw a huge crowd misrepresents the true nature of our community.

Lastly, don't let negative comments get to you. This is a messageboard and you're going to find "name calling" and slurs no matter where on the net you go. Just keep in mind that the comments of some don't necessarily reflect the views of all. I hope you guys can recover from this in one way or another. Losing another trance promoter in this city helps no one and I'm sure we'll all appreciate being able to see more headliners grace this fine city.

In any case I hope you guys can bounce back and remember never to give up!

quote:

Originally posted by jpgrdnr Thanks for the fruit! Much appreciated. I'm interested in some of tracks Fleming played...he played breaks for a bit (which was very different!) I definitely caught the Robert Miles Children, mix in. Did he play any tracks from his upcoming release? Le Voyage EP?

He played:
Moogwai - Labrynth (part 2 remix)
The Digital Blonde - Karma
now, i can't remember forsure, but I'm pretty sure he opened with Miika Kuisma - Orion

I think he played "A New Sound" from his Le Voyage E.P.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OPE FIGURES

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Hahn ... Actually we had John booked before System got Scumfrog; it was originally Seb Fontaine @ System that night which would not have been an issue. Secondly, I'd like to think that the Toronto scene is healthy enough to support an event like the one we had on a different weekend than Armin and PvD. Obviously the scene isn't what it was. It's morons like you that make it not even worth our time and hard earned money to try and keep an otherwise withering scene alive. Instead of sitting on your high horse and name calling the people who really tried to do something so snot nosed punks like you have somewhere to go on the weekend I suggest you try it yourself. Thanks again to everyone who came out that night

I admit that I was wrong to refer to the promoters in that way. I'm sorry. I was annoyed with KevinEarth's bashing of Armin and PVD...my real intent was to tell him to direct his apparent frustration with the turnout away from the people who didn't attend, and to look at the real factors.

Wether or not Scumfrog was booked first, while relevant of course, is secondary to the poor timing and location for J00F. System wasn't exactly packed for Scumfrog either, which seems to indicate that it was poor timing that was the reason for the low turnout for J00F as well. You have to at least admit that booking J00F right after Armin & PVD was NOT a good move...all indications suggest that most people that went out last week didn't go out at all this past weekend. System will always draw SOME people, and even if they lose a few bucks on any given night, they have consistency and will turn a profit in the end.

I don't know how many parties you guys throw in a year, but I'm doubting you have System's luxery of not having to promote nearly as hard as you...so you need to be smarter.

While I was definitely wrong to refer to you guys as "dumbasses", calling me a snot nosed kid (um, far from it) isn't so productive, especially when you rely on people like me and the "snot nosed kids" to fill your parties. If I "tried it myself", I wouldn't book a presumably expensive DJ on the weekend after the Guv 7 year anniversary, that much I know.

Again, I am sorry for my intial remark, it was out of line...but calling me names and blaming the scene for you losing $$$ isn't too productive either.

wells i dunno what happened, but something definately went wrong .. this party didn't even register on the Tribe.ca radar.. there's no review for it!

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL wells i dunno what happened, but something definately went wrong .. this party didn't even register on the Tribe.ca radar.. there's no review for it!

there are some pics of it in the pic thread (on tribe)tho.


in my amateaur opinion, these variables likely played in part, not everything is stuff that could have been foreseen by a promoter:

-weekend after massive long-weekend party at guvernment (ppl usually don't want to go out th enext weekend unless they are more entrenched in the scene)
-location that has an iffy repuation and no real weekly draw
-most students have mid-terms right now
-a lot of ppl have colds/illness right now (likely a lot that went to guv last week..it seems that the combo of partying all night and being w/n in a close proximity makes a lot of ppl sick)
- cost of tickets- compared to system where it is easy peasy to get some sort of list- i know i haven't paid to go there since i can't remember
- scumfrog playing the same night- never having played in TO before

** at the same, i don't think that having party after a big GUV party is teh kiss of death. TR booked Dumonde the weekend after L of L and that was a big sucess (this probably also had to do w/ the fact that dumonde had never been there before (and many ppl had been awaiting them) and the club had a strong regular clientele)


I don't doubt that many efforts were taken to make the night go well (extra lights, making sure teh sounsystem was in top form). the fact that you guys did teh fruit trays make me have a pang of sadness (i think then when parties provide fruit it's such a thoughtful thing )

i'm not sure what else could have helped.

perhaps making a contest to give out some free passes, or giving out more free passes to women especially (so even if you didn't make $ you woiuld still have the appearance if a fuller club which might have helped w/ future events) and atleast would have increased sales at the bar- and I say give passes to women b/c 1) they will bring their guys friends (2) obviously it's better to have women in the clubs b/c guys will stay where the women are.

In addition, it probably was a bigger challenge b/c teh promoters are from k/w. i'm guessing that they know ppl in toronto, but probably not as many as many local promoters. i'm sure they brought ppl down from k/w but i realize that that can be difficult.

as i mentioned earlier, best of luck in the future to all of those involved,

taraxo

Wow,
Some people need to grow up.....

Anyways Myself and a few of my closest attended the party and thought it was great! The staff right up to the door man was very courteous in seeing that we were looked after. We got there as Greg Benz was warming up the crowd with more melodic stuff. Looked like he was having a good time and it was transparent through the crowd.
John OO hit the decks to a half empty room but smiles were all that you could see from the Trance Legend. He played some wicked hard trance that kept me moving. Apart from the wicked music, the vibe in the club was very friendly as well. I didn't know a lot of the tracks he spun as it has been a while since I attended a trance party but it was def'n not cheese and that made me happy.
I have to thank the fresh crew for throwing the party, and as for those who are bashing these guys for throwing a party because it is on the weekend after another big party or cause scumfrog was there, give your head a shake. This John OO Flemming and throwing a party does take some risk, I think these guys hold a lot of class in trying to provide us partiers with a good night out and you know what even know the party may have cost them some coin, they can still say they threw a wicked party and those who were there enjoyed themselves. Grow up people...

BTW went over to Scumfrog after the party and had a blast to finish the night off. Wasn't there long enough to give a decent review but saw a couple of TA's. Hope everyone had a good weekend.

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