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Originally posted by imokruok ---------- Ex-CIA director says Europe's elite drawing '1st breath of totalitarianism' ------------------------ Posted: November 28, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern ''People hate Jews to very much the degree that they have come to realize that this notion of the rule of law is something that came to the world something between three and four millennia ago in the Sinai desert. The idea that the government is above the ruler, and that rulers, whether it's King David or anyone else, are to be held to account by the people, by great prophets, by whomever - that notion essentially came out of the Sinai desert,'' Woolsey said.

Its a really interesting position Woolsey takes here on the Jews as the protectors/givers of Law. It is very Nietzche like. Nietzsche argued that the Jews were indeed the first to question the rulers (the superior), and were therefore able to bring the people over the rulers (the inferiors). This was done by "the salve revolt in morality" which was lead by the "Jews and the priests". That is what he writes in his Geneaology on Morals anyway, its interesting Woolsey adopts a similar line. Of course Nietzsche wasn't very friendly with Jews...


As for Palestinians and others who view Mr. Woolsey as terrorists, I am curious to hear why you think so? What has the CIA done under his regin that was terrorist like?
I'm trying to recall any CIA assasination attempts and so forth, and I recall none against any Palestinian targets during at least the later years of the clinton administration. I'm curious to see what specific events you attribute to him.

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Originally posted by Palestinian Hamas wouldn't be allowed to speak at York. Exactly. And that's why Woosley shouldn't be allowed either. Hamas has been labelled as terrorists. Well so was Woosley. Except labelled by others, by the victims.

Sorry, terrorists can't turn into victims when it suits them. Argue logically and rationally Palestinian. You should have been the sperm your mother swallowed!

CIA ATROCITIES

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator�s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.

This happened in Iran when the CIA deposed of Mosadegh and imposed the Shah . We wouldn't have Khomeini if it weren't for that operation.

This scenario has been repeated so many times that the CIA actually teaches it in a special school, the notorious "School of the Americas." (It opened in Panama but later moved to Fort Benning, Georgia.) Critics have nicknamed it the "School of the Dictators" and "School of the Assassins." Here, the CIA trains Latin American military officers how to conduct coups, including the use of interrogation, torture and murder.

The Association for Responsible Dissent estimates that by 1987, 6 million people had died as a result of CIA covert operations. (2) Former State Department official William Blum correctly calls this an "American Holocaust."

List of Atrocities

There is a large amount of research you could do to know what the CIA does. The following is a list of a few atrocities.

1953

Iran � CIA overthrows the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh in a military coup, after he threatened to nationalize British oil. The CIA replaces him with a dictator, the Shah of Iran, whose secret police, SAVAK, is as brutal as the Gestapo.

1954

Guatemala � CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz has threatened to nationalize the Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which CIA Director Allen Dulles also owns stock. Arbenz is replaced with a series of right-wing dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years.

1957-1973

Laos � The CIA carries out approximately one coup per year trying to nullify Laos� democratic elections. The problem is the Pathet Lao, a leftist group with enough popular support to be a member of any coalition government. In the late 50s, the CIA even creates an "Armee Clandestine" of Asian mercenaries to attack the Pathet Lao. After the CIA�s army suffers numerous defeats, the U.S. starts bombing, dropping more bombs on Laos than all the U.S. bombs dropped in World War II. A quarter of all Laotians will eventually become refugees, many living in caves.

1959

Haiti � The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of Haiti. He creates his own private police force, the "Tonton Macoutes," who terrorize the population with machetes. They will kill over 100,000 during the Duvalier family reign. The U.S. does not protest their dismal human rights record.

Dominican Republic � The CIA assassinates Rafael Trujillo, a murderous dictator Washington has supported since 1930. Trujillo�s business interests have grown so large (about 60 percent of the economy) that they have begun competing with American business interests.

Ecuador � The CIA-backed military forces the democratically elected President Jose Velasco to resign. Vice President Carlos Arosemana replaces him; the CIA fills the now vacant vice presidency with its own man.

Congo (Zaire) � The CIA assassinates the democratically elected Patrice Lumumba. However, public support for Lumumba�s politics runs so high that the CIA cannot clearly install his opponents in power. Four years of political turmoil follow.

1963

Dominican Republic � The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Juan Bosch in a military coup. The CIA installs a repressive, right-wing junta.

Ecuador � A CIA-backed military coup overthrows President Arosemana, whose independent (not socialist) policies have become unacceptable to Washington. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

1964

Brazil � A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the democratically elected government of Joao Goulart. The junta that replaces it will, in the next two decades, become one of the most bloodthirsty in history. General Castelo Branco will create Latin America�s first death squads, or bands of secret police who hunt down "communists" for torture, interrogation and murder. Often these "communists" are no more than Branco�s political opponents. Later it is revealed that the CIA trains the death squads.

1965

Indonesia � The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, will massacre between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being "communist." The CIA supplies the names of countless suspects.

1993

Haiti � The chaos in Haiti grows so bad that President Clinton has no choice but to remove the Haitian military dictator, Raoul Cedras, on threat of U.S. invasion. The U.S. occupiers do not arrest Haiti�s military leaders for crimes against humanity, but instead ensure their safety and rich retirements. Aristide is returned to power only after being forced to accept an agenda favorable to the country�s ruling class.

Palestinian, ok I understand your argument the CIA was evil, but how does this exactly make Mr. Woolsey a terrorist?

Did the CIA have terrorist-like conduct under his adminstration of it, if so when and against who?

Assuming the CIA is a terrorist organization, does this not mean every single US legislature is a terrorist, as they support terrorist by giving the CIA funding? Further would this not make every US president a terrorist? US Presidents are the commander and chiefs and so technially they are the head of the CIA, they also appoint the CIA's director, and give the director commands of operation. Therefore since Bill Clinton was president who had Mr. Woolsey serve under him, would Bill Clinton not be a terrorist, or at least a terrorist supporter for allowing such an organzation to operate under his leadership?

I'm curious, do you think Bill Clinton was a terrorist?


I understand your historical concerns with the CIA, but to the best of my knowledge they have done little that can even be precieved as a terrorist action for the past 10 years. For this reason I do not believe it is fair to equate Mr. Woolsey, the CIA, or Bill Clinton with groups like Hamas and so forth.

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Originally posted by Yoepus Palestinian, ok I understand your argument the CIA was evil, but how does this exactly make Mr. Woolsey a terrorist? Did the CIA have terrorist-like conduct under his adminstration of it, if so when and against who? Assuming the CIA is a terrorist organization, does this not mean every single US legislature is a terrorist, as they support terrorist by giving the CIA funding? Further would this not make every US president a terrorist? US Presidents are the commander and chiefs and so technially they are the head of the CIA, they also appoint the CIA's director, and give the director commands of operation. Therefore since Bill Clinton was president who had Mr. Woolsey serve under him, would Bill Clinton not be a terrorist, or at least a terrorist supporter for allowing such an organzation to operate under his leadership? I'm curious, do you think Bill Clinton was a terrorist? I understand your historical concerns with the CIA, but to the best of my knowledge they have done little that can even be precieved as a terrorist action for the past 10 years. For this reason I do not believe it is fair to equate Mr. Woolsey, the CIA, or Bill Clinton with groups like Hamas and so forth.

Its called state-sponsored terrorism, weve had this discussion before Yoepus remember

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Its called state-sponsored terrorism, weve had this discussion before Yoepus remember

Ya but that debate was abotu Israel being a state-sponsorer...

I didn't know you guys believed the US is a state sponsorer of terrorism too. That's real sad, that means to you every President, Judge, Legislature, and taxpayer is then also a terrorist as well because they support this terrorist nation.

Way to go for nullying a term.

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