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-- Palestinians, history and struggle
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No i didnt,i tried to make a diffrent point,look hard and you will find it.


if you didnt:the point was that there"s a diffrence between giving a dollar for a kid to throw granedes at soldiers or to shoot at them(what kills the boy sometimes) and between letting a young boy thouch an unloaded gun or to even teach him how to use it so he will feel safer in a time of trouble with the "neiboors".
thats all.

give it up viber, your point isn't taken seriously. You think children aren't given guns to protect themselves in refugee camps invaded by tanks? They need to feel safer too.

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian give it up viber, your point isn't taken seriously. You think children aren't given guns to protect themselves in refugee camps invaded by tanks? They need to feel safer too.

Total bullshit. We can see even in America what happens when you give guns to the general public. They never end up serving their purpose of protection, and instead they are used to commit crimes.

People should not be allowed to have guns, let alone children.

they protect themselves against tanks with sling shots

are you in the NRA Galapidate?

This isn't America, Galapidate. It's a war zone in refugee camps.

If everyone is given weapons, like guns for "protection" we know what "self protection" these guns will serve if these people have a deep hatred for the other side.

Scenerio1: everyone is given guns

vs

Scenerio2: no one has guns or any weapons


you decide.

Both sides are a bunch of dicks anyways, i say they might as well have a war against each other with no external funding or help.

Stupid as it is, peace isnt even a solution anymore

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian give it up viber, your point isn't taken seriously. You think children aren't given guns to protect themselves in refugee camps invaded by tanks? They need to feel safer too.

Haha,yea its exactly the same,using kids for a guerilla army and showing a jewish kid a gun so he will know how to use it when an arab man is entering his room and attacking him with a knife.
but let me guesss,the israeli army is evil and the kids with the guns are becuse of him,arrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
have fun swimming in the arab demamogy.

I do realize this isn't in America. However, I just think it is immoral to give guns to minors.

quote:

Originally posted by Galapidate I do realize this isn't in America. However, I just think it is immoral to give guns to minors.

the conditions are absolutely uncomparable. you cannot logically say that children should not be given guns in a war zone. enter a war zone and then ask yourself if you'd feel safer with a gun.

Both sides are a bunch of dicks anyways..

I totally disagree with this kind of approach to a political theme like this.U Can't Say that! If This is your opinion,don't post,go listen to your music and don't care about these subjects..
Palestinians are forced to act,to take guns,they are resisting against an enemy who has a huge army (and not guerilla formations) with reliance to U.S.A.Arabs are in morally rightfull resistance and defence.Viber u must realise who is the attacker and who defends!!
U have baptised arabs as "terorrists",when daily u attack and leave homeless kids with no other way but to a carry a bomb and explode..
I am with the jews soldiers who denied to go to the arab territory to attack them.I am with Idifada because palestinians fight for their national independence.If u can say viber what are the losses fot each side u could see by yourself that your national security as the murderer Sharon says is nothing but a big lie!!! Who broke the peace tha was declared before the second Palestinian Resistance started? Do u or not invade in Palestinian land,bring settlers to alter the population.. Where is your truth?? Fondamelism wherever this comes from is the worst thing in the world..

I'am from Greece and I have many friend palestinians and jews,to be a fanatic and not see in the depths of the problem is the worst..But the truth is tha the justice is with the Arabs..Israel government must stop the attacks in order to go to a solution..

Both sides are a bunch of dicks anyways..

I totally disagree with this kind of approach to a political theme like this.U Can't Say that! If This is your opinion,don't post,go listen to your music and don't care about these subjects..
Palestinians are forced to act,to take guns,they are resisting against an enemy who has a huge army (and not guerilla formations) with reliance to U.S.A.Arabs are in morally rightfull resistance and defence.Viber u must realise who is the attacker and who defends!!
U have baptised arabs as "terorrists",when daily u attack and leave homeless kids with no other way but to a carry a bomb and explode..
I am with the jews soldiers who denied to go to the arab territory to attack them.I am with Idifada because palestinians fight for their national independence.If u can say viber what are the losses fot each side u could see by yourself that your national security as the murderer Sharon says is nothing but a big lie!!! Who broke the peace tha was declared before the second Palestinian Resistance started? Do u or not invade in Palestinian land,bring settlers to alter the population.. Where is your truth?? Fondamelism wherever this comes from is the worst thing in the world..

I'am from Greece and I have many friend palestinians and jews,to be a fanatic and not see in the depths of the problem is the worst..But the truth is tha the justice is with the Arabs..Israel government must stop the attacks in order to go to a solution..

You know what?,i overreacted i assumed shit that i shouldnt,nothing say in this pic that the father was teaching his son how to shoot with it,if we'll be basing on facts then probably it was an unloaded gun in an indepandance day showing of unloaded guns and tanks and the father watched his kid so he wouldnt injure himself,in fact,now when i think about it it will be along time until the jewish parents will give their children a gun for protection.
I don't know what i was thinking,sorry for misleading you guys,dont take what i said before about the jews as facts,what i said about the orginazations (aka the palastinian army) was true based on what Abbas and sevral Hamas,jihad and other orginazation's leaders said in the past and the known movies of childrens being used as shields by the orginazations.

quote:

Originally posted by sacrief Both sides are a bunch of dicks anyways.. I'am from Greece and I have many friend palestinians and jews,to be a fanatic and not see in the depths of the problem is the worst..But the truth is tha the justice is with the Arabs..Israel government must stop the attacks in order to go to a solution..

Justice is with the innocent, not any one side in this conflict. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa are not any less culpable than the IDF, until people realize that fanaticism and tit for tat violence offers nothing but bloodshed and the continual downthroddeness of the Palestinian population as a whole, this festering puss will continue to plague the region. I still maintain that the Palestinians need a strong leader, stronger than anything Yasser Arafat has to offer. One who leads through humility, fairness and most importantly for the benefit of raising his people from despair. It hurts me to see Palestinians fleeing their homes from an Israeli incursion but often what usually precedes such actions, either a bombing or an underground weapons tunnel, as in the case of Gaza.

Viber, who the hell are you to dictate what's going on in the pictures we're posting?? I can look at a picture and make up any story I want about it and this is what you're doing. These are racist assumptions. My whole point in posting the picture was to show that you cannot look at a picture and make up a story sayind that 'palestinians teach their children to kill with guns'. You have no arguement by posting a picture.

NYC Trancefan, we have a leader that we're satisfied with, thank you. You must realize that Israel is waging a campaign to ethnically cleanse Palestine. They're doing to us what was done to the blacks, and what was done to the Native Americans. Survival is precious. You can criticize Hamas, Jihad, and Al Aksa Martyrs all you want, but in the end, this is what persecuted people do to survive.

What is needed is for Israel to abide by International Law and not any more concessions from the Palestinian people.

heh,yea im distorting the truth!!!!!!!11

you don't know if that gun was loaded, you don't know what the man is telling the kid. you don't know what's going on in these pictures, so stop assuming shit out of your ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian NYC Trancefan, we have a leader that we're satisfied with, thank you. You must realize that Israel is waging a campaign to ethnically cleanse Palestine. They're doing to us what was done to the blacks, and what was done to the Native Americans. Survival is precious. You can criticize Hamas, Jihad, and Al Aksa Martyrs all you want, but in the end, this is what persecuted people do to survive. What is needed is for Israel to abide by International Law and not any more concessions from the Palestinian people.

I fully understand that Mr. Arafat is the leader of the Palestinians, my point was that the Palestinians are fighting to establish a functioning, viable and independent state for themselves and as such requires a leader who isn't in a perpetual state of political battles as is the case of Yasser Arafat, why is it that Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazzen) got nowhere under Arafat's leadership, now we have Abu Ala, I wish that talks can resume but I get the feeling that the buck starts and stops with Yasser Arafat and his inner circle and if he doesn't feel that he is an integral part of the peace talks, they will get nowhere. Arafat like many leaders don't seem to know when it is time to step back and for the greater good of the people make personal sacrifices. Why was it so hard for him to grant Mahmoud Abbas the ability to have a stronger say over the security forces, instead Arafat was intent on maintaining control. The Palestinian people have suffered long enough and what is taking place today offers little hope for the future and that is the sad reality. Certainly you cannot argue Palestinian that the people of Palestine need a leader that is strong, free from corruption, and willing to make the tough choices to the benefit of his people even if he loses some political control. Maybe you have a different angle being Palestinian. The ultimate endgame is a Palestinian state and that can come from only one means, a negotiated treaty with Israel.

Hey palestinian, what's hilarious about the pictures is that it looks like your avatar is the famous picture the Pali's staged for the media. 90 degrees to the right of that guy is a wall of media, maybe 50-60 photographers, who were called to take a picture of guys with flags and rocks.

I also get a kick out the "refugee camps" moniker. Like they're all living in tents or something. Which is nowhere near the truth, but that's what they all want people who have never been there to think. The Israeli settlements are far closer to "camp" conditions than the Palestinian cities.

The Palestinian Authority

I can see problems in the Palestinian Authority, corruption being a big issue. Elections are also overdue; we were supposed to have elections in 1999. Elections at this point in time are also extremely difficult if people are confined to their homes or have to go through check points to vote. The officials in the PA use this fact to keep a grip on power, while the Sharon government use it to keep a common enemy and the usual people to blame.

Mahmoud Abbas and Ahmad Qurei (Abu Ala') are not elected officials by the Palestinian people. They are chosen by Yasser Arafat because the United States has pressured our leadership to do so without consent of the Palestinian people. Nevertheless, whatever the Palestinian Prime Minister chooses to do, it will be under the supervision of Yasser Arafat, the elected President of the PA. And this is what the people want and will not give it up.

The PA has made numerous sacrifices for the Palestinian people. The main one of course being the concession of 78% of original Palestine and the recognition of Israel as a sovereign Jewish state. The division of the Occupied Territories into Areas A, B, and C were accepted by the PA for the duration of the negotiations including Israeli control of 80% of the Territories' water. The demilitarization of the new Palestinian state is a sacrifice that the PA is willing to make.

The ultimate sacrifice that Israel wishes of the PA is to give up the internationally recognized Right of Return for refugees. This will upset millions of Palestinians and NGOs worldwide. UN Resolution 194. No one knows whether the PA will throw that away or not and many don't think that it should be in their hands. It is a right that cannot be denied to anyone.

Another thing. When South Africa under Apartheid negotiated with the blacks, the country was under fire. Violence was eating up the place. But peace talks prevailed. What is the difference between this conflict and the Israeli/Palestinian one? It's that Israel will not negotiate and get it overwith until all violence from the Palestinian side stops. South African leaders recognized that getting the peace talks overwith was crucial in spite of the violence, but Israel doesn't. It always chooses unrealistic and highly fictional politics. The PA has called for negotiations numerously and continues to invite Israeli officials to the 'negotiating table'.

imokruok, are you okay? Many Palestinian refugees DO live in tents. Tents put up by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA). The Jenin refugee camp is highly made up of tents especially after the invasion in 2002.

The Israeli settlements are first class houses. They have swimming pools and fireplaces, this is fact, you just can't argue against this one. You must be brain dead to not know these things. How else is the Israeli government convincing people to live amongst "terrorists". They make fine houses that come with benefits. Man you are messed up.

Arafat: Peace and Freedom

Arafat: Peace and Freedom � El-Sarraj
Saturday, December 13 2003 @ 11:47 PM EST

"I am one of those who do not refrain from criticizing the Palestinian Authority, the President, and the Cabinet. But, we all have something in common, the soldier, myself, and everyone .."

By DR. EYAD EL-SARRAJ

Like every morning, I was walking along the Gaza beach-- thinking, dreaming, breathing fresh air away from the fuel gas and dust and trying to maintain my emotional balance, which Israeli bombers strive to destroy.

It seemed that I had gone too far without realizing, I noticed a soldier coming down to the beach towards me. I was not sure if I was the intended target, until he waved his hand for me to stop. When I was close to him, I asked about the reason for stopping me from walking along the beach. He said that this small strip of the beach ran alongside President Arafat's office, and for security reasons, walking was not permitted.

Naively I responded, "But the President is in Ramallah". The soldier replied with what shifted the conversation to a totally different level, "But his spirit is here". Sincerely, I stumbled because I was not expecting such a high emotional charge in the early morning hours. I said, retreating, "I hope the President comes back soon". Then, I said, "May I ask that this area be cleaned in preparation for his arrival". The soldier said with determination and sincere emotions; "When the President comes, we will convert it into paradise; when President Arafat arrives, we will convert the salty see water into honey". I smiled as the soldier's eyes glowed with emotions and tears.

The moment was strange and overwhelming�this simple soldier was expressing his warm emotions like a poet armed with sincerity. I asked myself if there was something common between us. I am one of those who do not refrain from criticizing the Palestinian Authority, the President, and the Cabinet. But, we all have something in common, the soldier, myself, and everyone�we all have love for this homeland, its people, trees, sand, sea, sky and life�the prayers of the mosques, the screaming neighbors, the noisy cars, the graveyards, the olive trees and the graffiti that cover the walls along the streets-which are full of holes and bumps.

We also share the love of what Yasser Arafat represents while not necessarily agreeing on what he does. Yasser Arafat is the symbol that Palestinians agree upon. There is only him, no other, that dares to claim such a thing; and he is the one holding the flag, confronting oppression, humiliation and neglect.

Yasser Arafat is a symbol for the Palestinian people's tragedy and struggle.

We may differ, the soldier and I, about the extent of our support for Arafat's policies and the practices of the Palestinian Authority he is heading. I am always concerned about human rights, rule of law, independent judiciary and democracy. That is why I criticize the Palestinian Authority and why I blame Yasser Arafat personally for it. I consider him responsible for corruptions and malpractices, responsible for failure or absence of a strategy for peace, as well as wasting resources and state land. But, the soldier and many others may not be concerned with such details as much as they are concerned with the daily matters of existence and having a feeling of security.

For all of us however, Arafat represents the struggle against the occupation and oppression. For peace or war he is the one that calls the first shot. He is the only one that has the legitimacy to sign any agreement on behalf of Palestinians.

It is folly that those in the White House do not understand such facts. It is the racist elements in Israel and its lobby who persuaded themselves that Yasser Arafat is an obstacle in the path for peace�as if all that matters to them is peace? The opposite is true. What matters to the racists is war and seizure of more Palestinian land. The most threatening Palestinian is the one who calls for peace, because this unveils the racist�s true nature. That is why they even consider those Israelis who signed the Geneva accord as traitors and should be hanged. That is why they have to destroy Yasser Arafat, and portray him as the symbol of terror, then seclude him away from his people and any political battle in an attempt to prepare for killing him morally if not physically.

However, all that this administration and Sharon have succeeded in accomplishing is compelling the crowd to gather around Arafat.

Yasser Arafat is once again, as he always was, the most relevant political player in the region, basically due to the determination of this people to resist the external attempt to isolate him and their cause by doing so.

Keeping Arafat imprisoned is an insult to every Palestinian, every Arab, and every human who loves peace and justice.

Palestinian leaders should stop deceiving themselves and their people and should stop meeting any Israeli, American, or European leader without official permission from Yasser Arafat. The visitor should pass through Yasser Arafat first.

We have to stand firmly with Yasser Arafat and against the racist enemies of peace.

Yasser Arafat�s only crime was that he did not stop demanding the implementation of the UN resolutions. It is the American President and Sharon who consistently act against the UN resolutions and world opinion. They are the enemies of peace.

Freedom for Arafat should be the slogan for those who call for peace, because Arafat means peace� and freedom.


Source: The Palestine Chronicle � www.palestinechronicle.com

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok Hey palestinian, what's hilarious about the pictures is that it looks like your avatar is the famous picture the Pali's staged for the media. 90 degrees to the right of that guy is a wall of media, maybe 50-60 photographers, who were called to take a picture of guys with flags and rocks. I also get a kick out the "refugee camps" moniker. Like they're all living in tents or something. Which is nowhere near the truth, but that's what they all want people who have never been there to think. The Israeli settlements are far closer to "camp" conditions than the Palestinian cities.

Someone has Washingtons big dildo up their ass.

You need to read more about the abhhorent conditions that Palestinians are faced with... many of them are living like homeless peasants while their israeli nighbors across the hill swim in their pools and have BBQ's in those settlements.

Ill take Palestinians words over your ignorant assumptions anyday... seeing as hes lived there AS A PALESTINIAN!

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King You need to read more about the abhhorent conditions that Palestinians are faced with... many of them are living like homeless peasants while their israeli nighbors across the hill swim in their pools and have BBQ's in those settlements.

the sooner a cease-fire is upheld - the sooner there is a state - the sooner the economy can thrive - the sooner they can have BBQs as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Dopey the sooner a cease-fire is upheld - the sooner there is a state - the sooner the economy can thrive - the sooner they can have BBQs as well.

You need a reality check.

The economy was once trying to thrive, until ISrael, with their collective punishment strategies, tore down their city, and destroyed their airport... they are the ones who ruined their economy.

Now palestinian children skip meals while israeli kids get fat.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King You need a reality check. The economy was once trying to thrive, until ISrael, with their collective punishment strategies, tore down their city, and destroyed their airport... they are the ones who ruined their economy. Now palestinian children skip meals while israeli kids get fat.

that has nothing to do with what I said. you are focusing on the past. doing so won't make the future any better.

quote:

Originally posted by Dopey that has nothing to do with what I said. you are focusing on the past. doing so won't make the future any better.

If you havent understood my point, then so be it... but just so you know....thei condiditons PRESENTLY are even WORSE than before. Israel is constantly killing and causing shit....

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