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-- Ishkur's guide of EDM and what they say about trance
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quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance But if we can make a more accurate guide for noobies....holding out the songs that sit on the genre lines....it could help ppl trying to know more. The best way is listen to music..takes yrs to understand...but I'm all for helping others. True, some comes down to opinion but we tend to have a great deal of knowledge on this board and maybe we should put it to use.

I hear what you are saying, and I would respect the effort put into it. But, If people have to refer to a guide, in this case Iskur's, to tell them what is good then these people are probably a lost cause to begin with. Iskur's guide (under all the humour and sarcasm) is actually a fairly good guide, it's just people don't like his opinions.

The least TA can try to do is define the major genres of EDM, and give a list and characteristics of the subgenres of said genre, for one it would cut down on "WHAT IS TRANCE REALLY" and "WHAT GENRE IS DARUDE" threads and posts, and be a handy resource for those who want to get into the scene (provided the people who put it together dont go about it in a conceited, condescending way)

Oh Christ, how many times has this been discussed? I mean, is it really that difficult to go click "search" and type in "Ishkur"? Seriously.

It's satire. I know that for some of you that might be a very complicated and abstract concept.

If you want to give constructive feedback on the guide, email him. He'll give you a response of his thinking on the matter, so long as you actually make a point rather than insult.

Frankly it's a very good guide, and there's no other on the net even close to it. And if it still isn't good enough for you, make your own fucking guide. Which brings me to:

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance But if we can make a more accurate guide for noobies....holding out the songs that sit on the genre lines....it could help ppl trying to know more. The best way is listen to music..takes yrs to understand...but I'm all for helping others. True, some comes down to opinion but we tend to have a great deal of knowledge on this board and maybe we should put it to use.

I think it's a worthy idea, because like you said, it does take years to understand the distinctions. But know that the discussion and debate prior to its creation would be long and difficult.

and even the so called experts still don't understand everything...music keeps changing...keeps crossing new boundaries.

trance and progressive trance are easily definable
the average person does not know the difference between techno and trance
(newbies that say trance/techno)
so, overall its a horrible guide for 99.9 percent of the people that read it because they will be brainwashed

why it wont work...

because music is subjective it's not possible to classify each genre and sub-genre solely from one persons point of view. Nor can it be created by TA's who only represent trance/goa/psy etc. It needs to be a collective effort by several contributors of each genre...
I applaud Ishkurs efforts and for all intents and purposes its very good for showing the classes and evolutions of Electronica.
WHen you start adding your own opinions, then it begins to lose some credibility...
If anyone or any group decides to attempt something like this, it must be done factually with no biases -- not opinionated views from trancers.
Ishkur has every right to his opinion and his website....but really, thats ALL it is.

^^^^^

DJ Dan once said,

"Music is hard to categorize now than it's ever been. Techno guys playing tracks slowed down could be house...speeded up could be techno. I don't think it should be classified. It should be based on if it's good or not. A good record is a good record."



and for those of you in other countries that dont know who DJ Dan is, go educate yourself...

Re: why it wont work...

quote:

Originally posted by Digital Aura I applaud Ishkurs efforts and for all intents and purposes its very good for showing the classes and evolutions of Electronica. WHen you start adding your own opinions, then it begins to lose some credibility...

speaking of contradictions..

There are that much subgenres that one person will clasifie it as one genre whereas another person will put it in another genre. imho every dance music guide is subjective and a LOT of what he says is true (ian van dahl, rank 1, ...) especially when he compares it to greedy babys

one takes as much saws as the synth allows, detune them and put in unison with loads of efx, make a cheesy melody and a big climax around it. After heard about 9451354137 of these songs you get a little tired of it. When I started spinning these were all I bought, now I'm getting more and more critical to the genre (though there are exceptions like Ferry's latest songs , he's genious)

just my 2 cents

It's a good guide ok? stop bitching

STUPID HOUSE
aka PARTY HOUSE, UK HARD HOUSE?!?!?! GOOD GOD. NO

Pretty interchangeable with Nu-NRG, except where Nu-NRG is hard and driving every once in awhile, Stupid House (better known as UK Hard House for reasons unknown as it sounds neither hard nor housey) is just retarded. It's probably the offbeat bass stabs that lend credence to its defining 'stupid' sound. And the horn fanfares, making it sound like silly circus music. And the crowd cheering samples, which make it seem cheap and gimmicky. But where other party music (Happy Hardcore, Eurodance) has a self-aware, tongue-in-cheek affability, Stupid House here legitimately tries to pass itself off as something serious and genuine. Like actual contentious music. A chip-on-its-shoulder, more-hardcore-than-thou ethos, something so laughably ridiculous even Gabber House looks cooler in comparison. Pretending to be what it's not makes this whole genre fraudulent and insulting to those who just want to have a good time. And that's before you see how the kids dance to it. Stupid House is the bargain bin of electronic music. It also encompasses those signature-melody tracks that are always packaged in 'BEST CLUB ANTHEMS EVER' compilations, like The Launch, which are the musical equivalent of junk food.

soooooo, FYI, the guide was changed a little bit, as i noticed.



it's even stupider now and more likely to offend whoever looks at it.


classic trance? speedy j under classic trance? tell me it was done on purpose, please!

it's funny how people still care about this

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers classic trance? speedy j under classic trance? tell me it was done on purpose, please!

Did you even listen to the sample? It is essentially a trance track.

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers classic trance?

These are the first trance tunes, when trance had not housey influences

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers speedy j under classic trance?

That tune sounds a bit trancey... I don't know what the rest of it sounds like though, so I'm not gonna comment.

Whiskers, keep in mind that the tune he used is very old, people can change their style over the years

I've never taken this guide seriously.

Either its a bad joke, or Ishkur really is as fucking ignorant as they come.

Many current techno producers made trance in the early to mid 90s. Sven Vath for instance. The inclusion of Speedy J in that category is not unusual at all.

The only ignorant people here are those who are insulting the guide. Ishkur is not perfect, but he is very good at what he's done. Just because you disagree with someone on some points does not mean they are fundamentally incorrect in everything, and to assume so only speaks of your own ignorance.

One can disagree with someone and respect their work at the same time. In politics, for example, one can disagree with a politician on some issues but still respect that politician. Just because Ishkur insults your precious, precious trance doesn't mean you are justified in demonizing him and dismissing the many positive aspects of his guide.

I mean, some of you aren't even trying to see his perspective. Don't you think that's even the least bit close-minded?

quote:

Originally posted by starglider Did you even listen to the sample? It is essentially a trance track.

no it's not. it's almost the same as fill 17, which, as ishkur states himself, is an ambient techno track.

but damn it, CLASSIC TRANCE is not a GENRE, it's just a category such as, for example, "crappy trance"


anyway. continuing the train of hate

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers but damn it, CLASSIC TRANCE is not a GENRE, it's just a category such as, for example, "crappy trance"

It "doesn't exist" simply because nobody produces it anymore, and by the time they were producing, they called it just trance. That's why "classic" HAD to be added.

Ishkur once posted a small list of trance classics, and they were quite different from modern trance. Shorter melodies, more repetitive, no long build-ups...

Besides, trance is German techno with influences from ambient and with peculiar synth-lines. If you find Ambient Techno similar to trance, that's because of its origins

It's not the electronic music bible, but it's a good start.

Yes, his anti-trance bias is annoying, but it's good to keep an open mind.


Instead of complaining, why not post some suggestions/corrections in this thread.

doop

Ishkur has once again updated and once again ignored his poor lumpy category called "Epic Trance."

As one of the ardent supporters of the guide over the years, it pains me to say he's let the pretension go too far. Oh well.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Ishkur has once again updated and once again ignored his poor lumpy category called "Epic Trance."

Not Trance: envio - touched by the sun

i think that was done on purpose to piss ASOT fans off

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers Not Trance: envio - touched by the sun i think that was done on purpose to piss ASOT fans off

Probably. I noticed the addition too. I'm no fan of Touched By The Sun, but he just needs to rename the category "Dutch Trance" to stop all the misinterpretation and flames.

He constantly rants on purists and elitists, for good reason, but in the process he has become one regarding trance.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt He constantly rants on purists and elitists, for good reason, but in the process he has become one regarding trance.

that's exactly right, if it's a guide, then it shouldn't have personal opinions such as "this is not trance" or "this sucks balls". if you say that, then name it "sarcastic stabb at electronica genres"


bwah. we're beating a dead horsey.

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