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quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian by the way, trancegiant, i'm glad you took that photo of yourself off...was starting to make me itch.

lol, aye, jealousy can hurt

Re: hahahahaha

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Originally posted by Palestinian Stop making accusations and start debating with me intelligently you sad, shit, fuck.

not nice

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If you care about your precious Israel, you would stop being occupiers and get the fuck off someone else' land.

hehe thats maybe your opinion dude,
but many believe that if Israel just "fucks off" from the territories, it will do very bad to israel in the long-run.
also i must add, that this land does not belong to "someone else" right now like you say, it belongs to no one (but is under israeli control since 67 war), Jordan made peace with israel without taking the west bank, and the palestinians never had a country of their own standing there. they could have had it in 1947 after UN decleration -two states side-by-side, but instead opened a war.

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The only thing doing the recruiting is your American made tanks and helicopter gunships above our homes and streets.

we had those tanks and helicopter gunships in 1929? 1930-1936? when those who are called palestinians today brutaly muredered and terrorized jewish imigrants? we had those US made tanks and helicopter gunships above your streets in 1947?? right after the UN decleration when your friends opened a war with 7 arab armies against one little just-born israel?? ofcourse not!

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Death and destruction of a free Israel?? Who are you trying to fool? Your racist state is the fourth most powerful in the worldand has nuclear weapons

hehe

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who's going to destroy it? A bunch of thugs with bombs on their waists? Shut the fuck up and wake up to reality, shithead.

maybe they can't destroy it, but those "thugs with bombs on their weists" sure wish for death (they are succesful in it if i may add) - thats what he said.

quote:

The rest of your message shows your deeply racist mentallity. Racism at its finest. You need to relax, calm down, and chill.

and you tried to show that you dont base your ideas on "straight lies", but i beive i have just proved the opposite.

i've already discussed your arguements and refuted it them flotser. Read some of the previous threads.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant lol, aye, jealousy can hurt

you'de like that wouldn't you

quote:

Originally posted by Flotser They are idiots. They use an anti-democratic way to go against the law and against goverment decisions. They have used the media for political and idiological reasons - thats also why they chose going to jail (yes it was their choise). its not THAT hard to get away from serving the army, they could have said to the Army Psychologist that they are afraid of the service or watever tell about childhood problems and would have been released - no prison. not only they ran away from serving their democratic country, but they also harm it and suppurt its enemeis.

This is the funniest thing ive read all week. Basic cntradiction.

How are they using "anti-democratic" means to go against the governement, when they are using the very DEMOCRATIC doctrine of free speech to show their condemnation in serving in the IDF?

They probably knew that they could have stated something "psychological" but they were brave enough to tell the TRUTH about their feelings.

By taking advantage of Isreal's so called "free speech" they were put in jail.

Re: Re: tsk tsk tsk

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Originally posted by dj_ilan_yosef You spew out shit... "ethnic cleansing and genocide." That�s what you and your camp of pro-terror buffoons are good at doing, propagating your dirty, and blood soakin' agendas! You lie to gather sympathy. I read some of the handouts/leaflets I get from people just like you at any event concerning anything against Israel, and most of your supposed "facts" are straight out lies - or outdated material that once made your "cause" somewhat sympathetic to look at! Enough of your "we're the victim" garbage... if you care about "Palestine" you'd be marching into Ramallah and protesting Arafat�s regime for stealing money given to them by the international community, using this financial aid to kill innocent men women and children, letting terror networks roam free and recruiting more and more brainwashed children to death and destruction. You do not care for the lives of "Palestinians," you rather the death and destruction of a free Israel! A land that solely belongs to the Jew's! You talk about making a home for "Palestinians", you have 20+ Muslim nations who will not try and exterminate you. The Jew's don�t have the comfort of an international family... Israel is their home... there can not be no substitute! When you learn to love humanity more then hate "your sworn enemy," you'll see that your fight was fruitless and full of hate and murder, which brought about poverty and an ill-tempered indoctrinated homicidal society! I think you meant to say "Arafat has fought for decades in a cause that promotes genocide and the eradication of the Jews from the history books." Its funny you claim it to be the other way around, this conflict is deeper routed in the history books than the name of the Palestinian people. The people who support Arafat in his crusade to eliminate a people for their born identity I will continue to bring into this fight... you happen to be one of them.

Ilan, youve basically shown yourself to be the extremity that many people condemn. Israel is NOT solely for the Jews, like they say it is. Also, ive received those leaflets before and they cite their statistics and quotes, ive even looked them up and found them to be authentic.

And to call these Palestinians murderous buffons is easy becuase their "barbaric" imagery is mediated throughout... yet theyre barbaric atttempts do not outweigh the barbaric resuluts of your government...the only difference is that your countries barbarism is masked by a sophisticated army lead by terrorists in suits sitting on oak chairs in the Knesset.

Even though you dont agree with me like we chatted that other night, i still beilieve that Isreal is conducting state terrorism under the pretext of slow but systematic ethnic cleansing.

I have been reading these types of threads for months without comments. The staunchly pro-Israel and pro-Palestinians should just shoot themselves in the fucking head... You people sound dumber than Pat Robertson going off on everything not fundamentalist christian... shut the fuck up already... dumbasses...

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Originally posted by NYGblue I have been reading these types of threads for months without comments. The staunchly pro-Israel and pro-Palestinians should just shoot themselves in the fucking head... You people sound dumber than Pat Robertson going off on everything not fundamentalist christian... shut the fuck up already... dumbasses...

You know whats even dumber, when people that have nothing productive to say, come and complain about what people are debating about in a political forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King You know whats even dumber, when people that have nothing productive to say, come and complain about what people are debating about in a political forum.

cry me a river...

Re: Re: Re: tsk tsk tsk

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Originally posted by Cyrus King with me like we chatted that other night, i still beilieve that Isreal is conducting state terrorism under the pretext of slow but systematic ethnic cleansing.

Must be a very badly meditated policy, seems to be doing exactly the opposite, Palestinian populations has been rising and rising, no signs of ethnic cleansing over any substantial period of time can be seen. Very interested to see why you come to infer there is a "state" policy of ethnic cleansing when all population stats seem to prove something else. I could make the argument that the Israeli government is systematically encouraging the growth of Palestinian population with much stronger basis than you could make an argument it is trying to reduce it based on previous facts and trends.

resistance

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Must be a very badly meditated policy, seems to be doing exactly the opposite, Palestinian populations has been rising and rising, no signs of ethnic cleansing over any substantial period of time can be seen. Very interested to see why you come to infer there is a "state" policy of ethnic cleansing when all population stats seem to prove something else. I could make the argument that the Israeli government is systematically encouraging the growth of Palestinian population with much stronger basis than you could make an argument it is trying to reduce it based on previous facts and trends.

You should actually thank Palestinian resistance for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King This is the funniest thing ive read all week. Basic cntradiction. How are they using "anti-democratic" means to go against the governement, when they are using the very DEMOCRATIC doctrine of free speech to show their condemnation in serving in the IDF? They probably knew that they could have stated something "psychological" but they were brave enough to tell the TRUTH about their feelings. By taking advantage of Isreal's so called "free speech" they were put in jail.

Good reply, Cyrus.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King This is the funniest thing ive read all week. Basic cntradiction. How are they using "anti-democratic" means to go against the governement, when they are using the very DEMOCRATIC doctrine of free speech to show their condemnation in serving in the IDF? They probably knew that they could have stated something "psychological" but they were brave enough to tell the TRUTH about their feelings. By taking advantage of Isreal's so called "free speech" they were put in jail.

NO!

Dont forget that democracy is also based on laws, if i steal money from the bank - i should be put in jail, cause i go against the law that is agreed by the wide majority.
they can protest, they can vote for leaders that share their idiological ideas (and there are), they can join a political party and run for parliment after the service, but what they did was simply a cheap performance , proud to show the whole world how they oppose the law and support their country's enemies.

why i say they idiots? beacuse it is my opinion ofcourse. calling someone an idiot is not a fact you can base or contradict. and why i think so? because they exploited the media for cheap political provocation that also hurts Israel.

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Originally posted by Flotser NO! Dont forget that democracy is also based on laws, if i steal money from the bank - i should be put in jail, cause i go against the law that is agreed by the wide majority.

democracy once didnt allow blacks to vote, and it was the LAW!!! Doesnt mean its right. These students gave legitemate reasons for their condemnation of the IDF, but people like you see them as betrayers.

quote:

they can protest, they can vote for leaders that share their idiological ideas (and there are), they can join a political party and run for parliment after the service, but what they did was simply a cheap performance , proud to show the whole world how they oppose the law and support their country's enemies.

They have the freedom to do all these "POLITICAL" decisions, then why can they not voice their "POLITICAL" opinions on this matter? You once again contradicted yourself. BAsically lets silence anyone from our camp if they have siomething negative and constructive to say.

Again, this extensive labelling program by Israeli's is getting really tiresome....i wouldnt be surprised if you started saying they were terrorists...lame attempt at explaining their position really.

quote:

why i say they idiots? beacuse it is my opinion ofcourse. calling someone an idiot is not a fact you can base or contradict. and why i think so? because they exploited the media for cheap political provocation that also hurts Israel.

How is it cheap? Again you just label their very serious opinions as a "cheap" exploitation without explaining yourself. Face it buddy,, there are some Israeli's that are also disgusted by the occupation...they exist becuase they know the realities that palestinians face. Fortunately, they arent blinded by patriotism and excessive indoctrination.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King democracy once didnt allow blacks to vote, and it was the LAW!!! Doesnt mean its right. These students gave legitemate reasons for their condemnation of the IDF, but people like you see them as betrayers.

how can you compare serving in the army and black people slavery??
you dont know much about israeli laws though so i wont get into this anyway.

quote:

They have the freedom to do all these "POLITICAL" decisions, then why can they not voice their "POLITICAL" opinions on this matter? You once again contradicted yourself. BAsically lets silence anyone from our camp if they have siomething negative and constructive to say.

Thats exactly where you dont understand me. noone says they CANT voice their political opinions on this metter, and noone silences them. i've never said that. but why i think they are idiots? because in order to state their political opinion they hurt their own country and they dont give a fuck about all the other soldiers\retired soldiers\femelies of soldiers - their main care is passing the whole world their "progressive" approach.

how?
Its a very stable & undoubtable fact after all the wars israel went threw (escpecially 73 war that came as a total surprise in Jews most sacred day of the year) that Israel needs this obligatory army.
Think about a mother that "sends" its 18 sons to risk their lifes serving the country and protecting it for 3 years (believe it or not). and now come those nice "proggressive" guys and call the army (including her sons) in the same names Hammas calls it. if they had done that threw normal democratic\political channels it was better accepted, but they also run away from service. IMO, if you escape from service for watever reasons atleast keep it low, show some respect!!
yes - they can do what they did. and one year in prison was almost their decision..... its not that bad realy, instead of serving 3 years.
me - think they are idiots.

quote:

Again, this extensive labelling program by Israeli's is getting really tiresome....i wouldnt be surprised if you started saying they were terrorists...lame attempt at explaining their position really.

quote:

How is it cheap? Again you just label their very serious opinions as a "cheap" exploitation without explaining yourself. Face it buddy,, there are some Israeli's that are also disgusted by the occupation...they exist becuase they know the realities that palestinians face. Fortunately, they arent blinded by patriotism and excessive indoctrination.

not only they exist, they also share alot of chairs in the isreali parliment - jews & muslims. thats the difference realy, while under the FLO\Fattah and Hamas rule people like this get murdered on the streets (i can search for articles on the issue).

Re: hahahahaha

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian If you care about your precious Israel, you would stop being occupiers and get the fuck off someone else' land. The only thing doing the recruiting is your American made tanks and helicopter gunships above our homes and streets.

awwwww

so sad

me go cry now

me so sad when homocidal maniac gets shot

miso soup

awwwwww

Re: Re: hahahahaha

quote:

Originally posted by Dopey miso soup

Re: Re: hahahahaha

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Originally posted by Dopey awwwww so sad me go cry now me so sad when homocidal maniac gets shot miso soup awwwwww

nice homocidal maniac

moron

Re: Re: Re: hahahahaha

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Originally posted by Cyrus King nice homocidal maniac moron

do we really need cheap propaganda like that?

Re: Re: Re: Re: hahahahaha

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Originally posted by TranceGiant do we really need cheap propaganda like that?

and if it were an Israeli, would it still be cheap?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hahahahaha

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Originally posted by Cyrus King and if it were an Israeli, would it still be cheap?

I prefer written arguments to a bunch of pics, no matter from what side. In such debates pictures do not "say more than a 1000 words" but are misleading and never tell the whole truth. Their only use is that of propaganda by provoking emotion instead of thought.

The difference is not the nationality of the child.

In one, the child is a collateral casualty (read: accidental) when the IDF attempts to stop future terror attacks.

In the other, the child is targeted by a terrorist.

The terrorist intends the child to die. The proper soldier does not.

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok The difference is not the nationality of the child. In one, the child is a collateral casualty (read: accidental) when the IDF attempts to stop future terror attacks. In the other, the child is targeted by a terrorist. The terrorist intends the child to die. The proper soldier does not.

When four times as many people are dying on the Palestinian side, i fail to understand how you can label the IDF as trying to "stop future terror attacks".

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King When four times as many people are dying on the Palestinian side...

i blame it on the Palestinian building codes.. they're worse than those found in Iran

Plus we've already been through this before, casualty rates do not determine morality.

I'll repeat the obvious example of WWII where more Germans died than Americans, yet this did not make the Americans less moral.

2 scenarios

Two scenarios:

Scenario 1: The Palestinians launch a rocket into the heart of Tel Aviv knowing that IDF soldiers would be present there at the time. They hope that the rocket will kill the soldiers and not harm the civilians. Good strategy isn't it? It's Israel's strategy.

Scenario 2: As Cyrus told us before, let's say a top member of Hamas was in a crowded street in Tel Aviv. Israel bombs the street and hopes civilians won't be harmed. How is that? Again, this is Israel's strategy in the Occupied Territories.

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