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-- Trance standards and rules
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So you yourself have gotten angry at posts in this thread that you believe to be wrong or misleading......how is different from the actions of the people you are criticizing?

Nullfies what? Im saying automobile designers are supposed to know how to design automobiles, duh? I dont know about you but I know that I would never hire an automobile designer that knew nothing of car design, because he's just unqualified.

And this is completely irrelevant, I was just acknowledging the fact that the analogy was weak and flawed.

quote:

Originally posted by DJMikeyP Honestly, rather than looking at the thread and saying, "yeah but I don't do it that way", you actually took the time to start an argument. Such a lower level of thinking. Golden Rule - Positive comments or STFU. One Last Note: Don't hate anyone, just hate the interruption of free thought.

Who's arguing? All I ever did was say that there was no good that could come out of this thread. Your golden rule is bullshit. If you have an opinion, positive or negative, you should be able to express it. It's not a matter of indifference on this subject, Im actually OPPOSED to the concept of imposing rules on impressionable newbie producers who then have a bad habit of producing tracks that sound like they came out of an assembly line. So I should be able to state that, no?

Instead of flaming the dude like this, at least think about what he said. You guys really believe that every signed vinyl is original in it's structure and build-up ? PLEASE ! Everybody here who is a DJ or listens to trance on a regular base (everybody ?) must have noticed that there is a standard for sure.. Most of the time it's the exact same intro with different samples, and the structure is also pretty much the same. You maybe really WANT to believe that there ain't no standard, and that trance is the best music style ever invented oh so original. You guys say 'don't follow the standard' that's great, but then don't tell the newbies to 'do what the pros do, and then make your own style' cause that's the exact same thing this guy said.

Hey, this is a good thread. I'm a n00b at producing and I have some probs with structure in my songs, this helps out a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by DJMikeyP Golden Rule - Positive comments or STFU.

that was the stupiest golden rule i have EVER heard...

soooo.. stop posting them or STFU

well, I reckon being original is what every producer would like,nowt wrong with the original thread though in my own opinion...

quote:

EDIT: And no offence intended to the above post, but if you know nothing about current automobiles, why in the hell are you designing them?

I understand why you might think that mate. But I know 2 car designers in New Jersey. Both of them tell me that they are often told to design cars that are similar to other cars. So, they will be told to build something that looks like a Mercedes, but isn't a Mercedes. It's no wonder that there are so many Mercedes look alikes out there, heh. It's so people will be able to drive an affordable car that has some of the look and feel of the more expensive one it's modeled after. And of course if he knows nothing about current automobiles then he wouldn't be a designer, but the person only has a finite amount of time and will not be familiar with some of the new cars on the market. So, the point is, he can never know everything about every car, so it would be impossible for him to be COMPLETELY original, but the more he knows the more original he can be, which ties in to the second part of the analogy.

Looking back I see that I said that he knew nothing about automobiles. I should have said what if he wasn't completely up to speed with all of the automobiles that had surfaced that year. But regardless, what if designing the car was a college class project, and the point of the project is to get you accustomed to doing research. The focus should be on the fact if you aren't familiar with what has gone before, then you WILL repeat it. Same thing goes for history. History repeats itself more when people are unfamiliar with it.

Really sorry if I confused someone with this analogy, but I think we should try to think of what has been done before, before we can make something original.

All Im saying are that new producers are impressionable. People who are new at anything really are impressionable. They always want to know how to do something. Now normally, when you're learning, you pick up on different things yourself without anybody telling you, I know that's what I did, so I would pick up a little bit here and a little bit there from various tracks that I liked and developed my own style.

The problem with giving them such strict guidelines is that instead of making their own way and formulating a style, they are now burdened by the thought that they have to adhere to these strict rules. I don't want anybody to read something like this and then go back and change the track they were working on because it had only one break, or because they didnt have trippy noises in the background. Trance is waning in several countries in Europe now because of the same, formulaic stuff, and many people have switched to progressive house because of it (dunno why, I listen to and love both genres, but I guess some people need one genre to devote themselves entirely to.)

Ok this is how it is:

Anyone that's just getting interested in writing trance music (myself included)wants to know what makes 'trance' trance. So we can do that by one of 2 ways:

1. by ourselves, i.e. listening to a shit load of trance tracks and just fumbling along, making mistake after mistake until we eventually (after more mishaps than we care to mention) come up with something that we are hugely proud of (until we write the next track ) and that sounds vaguely trance like.

2. We find a place where there are people with common interests (lets call it a 'forum') who already have experienced the pain, frustration and time in finding and inventing the techniques that when combined can be classed as 'trance' music, and then learn these techniques from those willing to share them.

Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I see this 'forum' as a place where like minded people, who share a common interest, can swap ideas and assist others who have a desire to create music is a style that they love.

Now trance, like every other style of music, has certain rules, and like every other form of music, those rules are there to be broken. Having said that, you need to know what the rules are to be able to break them. So for a newbie to trance (like myself - as previously stated) posts like this are very helpful. As a newbie I understand that to be original you have to stretch (and break) the boundaries, but having a good foundation is just as important and I think that is why the originator made the effort to post. All he wanted to do was to assist other newbies in creating good trance (without us having to spend hours and hours when the knowledge is already there).

I think it's a bit of a shame that people hijack posts like this and say that they are shit. Guys, you may already have this knowledge and have either incorporated it into your music or decided to ignore it in favour of something else but to say taht this post is shit cos newbies are gonna think that 'these are the rule and you can't break them' is very short sighted, after all, didn't you emulate your favourite artists before you gained your individuality?

I agree with the people who have been brave enough to say 'if you haven't got anything positive to say, don't say anything at all'! IF you already have the knowledge take a leaf out of BT's book and share your ideas, who knows, the person that you've just shown how to get that bass sitting right might just take the 'Trance' scene to new hights!

Just my opinion!

And for those that are interested try thins link...i found it helpful:

http://www.ivibes.nu/index.php?article=89

Cheers,

Strep.

Nobody can predict exactly how a newbie is going to respond to this thread....it could go either way.

FuzzyGreen, I think this thread was really good idea. And this thread could be so much better with good advices from others. At least I like to know how SOME trance songs are made of, what kind of structure they have... Putting some intro, buildups, breakdowns,outros... I think this helped me a bit, so thanks FuzzyGreen posting

Yeah, and making music that U like is important!!!


Strep. thanks for the link

I think this is really useful. Rules are good - especially for new people. Look at the rules in composing or music theory. Only the very experienced are "allowed" to break them.

But even with rules or no rules, there's no substitute for transcription - taking your favorite tracks and figuring out what makes 'em tick - recreating them as best you can. That's where the knowledge is.

Be creative, do what you like. No two of my tracks have the same form, just basic grouping of measures so people can dance and not be confused.

I'm going to agree with a lot of people, and say that this is a good thread, but only as long as there's some sort of disclaimer saying that this is only what's usually done, and that some of the rules can and should be broken.

Now let's stop flaming and make the thread good.

Im not flaming, im disagreeing. Flaming involves immature comments phrased in rude ways. If what everybody wants is to produce tracks that sound the same, thats fine with me. The best producers are always the ones who find new and interesting ways to make music and express themselves, just keep that in mind. The ones always copying and trying to play catchup normally quit in frustration or simply hit a plateau and don't advance (i've seen both happen).

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