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quote:

Originally posted by TwoPlow I disagree.

Why? What's wrong with Ishkur? He's got nice view on things.
Except when he's bashing trance But that's funny anyways.

Ishkur's guide is the best place to look: for all its opinions it is almost entirely accurate. Just because he doesn't share your opinions doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about. Quite frankly, the only reason he gets so much stick is because people treat the guide like the "be all and end all" of music, when his disclaimer clearly states that you aren't to take it too seriously.

i think that guide is hilarious. it's uber opinionated, and even though i love prog and he says it's for elitist fucks, the description is great! maybe that's cos i don't take it seriously

he is so funny
=]

nyeh

quote:

Originally posted by Maaz Yeah, that's quite true. I remember in some thread Ishkur and I were defending the guide while YaleTrance was defending modern trance. He did build his argument on facts, and did not state just an opinion (i.e. he didn't say "it rules because it's good" nor "it sucks because I say so"). Don't get me wrong, I still like trance (specially nrg, since I'm a bit fed up with epic trance producers), but if you read carefully, you'll realise Ishkur has a point.

Well what I meant is that's I've put up my share of defenses for Ishkur's guide too (such as in this thread).

Shit, I never realized the immense amount of classifications of sounds that have come about over the course of the years. Seems fairly informative, despite the intense hatred towards a lot of the newer genres of music (in particular the trance section).

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Well what I meant is that's I've put up my share of defenses for Ishkur's guide too (such as in this thread).

Ah, I remember that thread I guess he's saying who defended trance so far, not who defended the guide.

Ironically, till this day, more people defended the guide (with serious posts, that is).

quote:

Originally posted by Pete Mitchell Goa - 138-150bpm usually.weird sounds,noises (water dripping,babies crying,frogs croaking,helicopter rotors,outer space effects etc) all sampled.sometimes synthy and trancey at times.synth runs go in an ascending and descending order.goes up then comes all the way back down.as if the sound is coming towards you then it speeds past....... very experimental.sometimes incorporates the old radio fones (i think thats wot u call them) into the music giving it a somewhat 1960's feel iesychedelic.alot of filtering and paning effects used giving an almost futuristic feel.all with deep deep pounding basslines.with great melodies too. Damn thats a hard genre to difine lol

with that description it sounds like you could make a couple of hundred versions of the same song and thats about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur 50 million complaints about my guide on this forum, and only one person--ONE PERSON OUT OF ALL OF YOU--has ever been able to put up any kind of defensible argument, and that's YaleTrance. What the hell is the matter with you people? Are you all really that hopeless? I thought you're supposed to be "TRANCE ADDICTS".

That's spot on, but I'd say mostly because it's not a very defensible position. Trance, on the whole, has been reduced to fluffy formulaic drivel and, well, that's [pretty much] exactly what you say, so what is there to argue with

I thought this was a good guide until i saw the definition of 'not trance a.k.a. crap'.. Why on earth do you have overdrive by scot project there?? When i saw scot project one time, he played this song and people just went insane.. there wasnt one person in the room not dancing.. this was some 2 years after its release. This is probably the best example of hard trance you will ever find and by labelling it as 'crap' proves that your guide isnt a very credible one.

quote:

Originally posted by Hard_NRG I thought this was a good guide until i saw the definition of 'not trance a.k.a. crap'.. Why on earth do you have overdrive by scot project there?? When i saw scot project one time, he played this song and people just went insane.. there wasnt one person in the room not dancing.. this was some 2 years after its release. This is probably the best example of hard trance you will ever find and by labelling it as 'crap' proves that your guide isnt a very credible one.

Short Answer: Because of the megolamaniac build-up
Long Answer:

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Keep in mind that trance was something completely different. A modern tendency of trance was to become housey: progressive trance is trance being housey, nrg was hard acid trance being UK hard housey and epic trance is an (evolution/reaction) (of/to) 90's eurodance. As you can all remember, Eurodance was some sort of "pop edm". The emphasis was on the singers and the producers (who were doing most of the work) were ignored in the mainstream: that's why many eurodance groups are known by the singer's name. Progressive trance had as its mean goal, the will to make trance sound housey. After Rober Miles hit the charts with Children, producers realised they could have the spotlight. The detuned saw waves from eurodance fitted perfectly in the new genre, and the old 4 bar choruses, with pointless lyrics was replaced by 16 bar complex melodies, which showed the producers' musical skills. By this time, trance had become something completely different from the ultra-repetitive music that was born in Germany. This is why he labels Ferry Corsten as "not trance", and the only reason why I call it trance too, is because I can't find a better name.

It's called "not trance" not because it sucks (and there are many hardstyle tunes that do, by the way, as in any other genre), but because it's too different from what trance used to be

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance Takes time to be able to tell some genres apart Garage is evil two step (slow drum'n'bass with no skill) Drum'N'Bass is 160bpm at least (Difference between it and Jungle is more difficult to tell for some) Trance is not hard to tell from others Techno is not hard either this all takes time to tell apart...even some stuff released now blurs the lines between genres.

What the hell... I don't like Uk Garage, but Zinc has produced some nice Garage tunes and I wouldn't say Dj Zinc has no skills my man...

DnB - 160 bpm at least??? What the hell??? Is it that fast???

quote:

Originally posted by muravei DnB - 160 bpm at least??? What the hell??? Is it that fast???

I produce drum'n'bass and all my stuff is between 170 and 180 BPM... the same for the tunes I like to listen to

f

Ishkur his site isn't bad, but it isn't perfect either, which would be impossible.
I do not always agree with his decriptions and the site doesn't take regional namegiving into account which would be impossible aswell
But if you want to have a quick runthrough it's as good as it can get.

I could start bashing the site for al kinds of reasons (me having just finished with my exams, the exclution of Noise, Power Electro and stuff ), but I won't. People must also go out and explore electronic music for themselves and not just read about it on various sites.

I did learn something of the site aswell. Where I would have bashed someones skull in (as any stereotype hardstyle-listener would ey ) for stating that Trance isn't Trance anymore, I would now take a moment to talk and to listen. For there might be some truth in what he or she is saying.

But even if Trance isn't Trance anymore, that does not mean it is worse pers�e. To me it doesn't even mean we have to rename a whole genre of music, but it does mean that we have to take time and to think about the music instead of consuming it blindly.

And if Uplifting Trance is the betrayal of trance, I am a traitor cause I love it as much as I loved Trance and it's ancestors as described on Ishkurs site.
And because I'm getting tired of typing and start to notice I'm selling BS, I'm going to stop now cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Stories Trance is very different from Techno, this is one of those things that once you start getting more exposed to, you'll be able to tell. Trance: More synths and melodic in a sense Techno: Harder driving beats and mostly percussion, not much synth House: Usually 120-130BPM, depending on the type, can sometimes be called "groovy". More defined by the deep bassline and more circular sounding sub-structure (not sure how to really describe it) Progressive: Slower than trance, derives sort of somewhere between house and trance (is synth-ish but far more reserved and gradual) Umm... I think those are the most easily confused ones... others like breakbeat, DnB, hardcore, etc. are more easily identifiable

Great Descriptions
When we all start we have the same questions!
I know I did!
Honestly there should be like guidelines or distinguishments posted somewhere on the opening page of the website. For the beginner its very confusing.

YES! MORE ISHKUR'S GUIDE BASHING!!! *jumps right in



personally, i'm not pissed that trance gets bashed in the guide, i'm pissed at the bias of the guide. noobs will go there and think "oh, this guys says this genre is crap, i don't wanna listen to that" and they might become close-minded in electronica, elitists.

no, i haven't done anything on that scale myself, but if i were to do something, i'd say "most electronica fans think epic trance is cheesy and consider it to be trash"


meh. i hate you all

like i said most people with custom status dont like trance
typical

quote:

Originally posted by mndeg like i said most people with custom status dont like trance typical

Ishkur is not even senior trancEaddict!

And I can't be arsed to check who said that didn't like trance, but as far as I remember, most people with custom status said they like trance, but they know Ishkur has a point.

While we're at it, I prefer cheese over prog, and I'm proud of it

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur 50 million complaints about my guide on this forum, and only one person--ONE PERSON OUT OF ALL OF YOU--has ever been able to put up any kind of defensible argument, and that's YaleTrance. What the hell is the matter with you people? Are you all really that hopeless? I thought you're supposed to be "TRANCE ADDICTS".

shit Im not complaining, just cause you dont like trance, its cool. It was also quite funny reading some of those comments.

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers personally, i'm not pissed that trance gets bashed in the guide, i'm pissed at the bias of the guide. noobs will go there and think "oh, this guys says this genre is crap, i don't wanna listen to that" and they might become close-minded in electronica, elitists.

I feel the same way. I get pissed at the musical immaturity of you people. Noobs who know nothing about trance will ask you guys what is the best, and you tell them Ferry and Tiesto and Armin, so they go to the shows and buy the comps and don't want to listen to any good trance because you won't let them, thus overinflating the value of these crackers and perpetuating the airwaves with the stale anthemic crud that some of us have literally launched outselves into voluntary exile as a result.

thanks a fucking lot.

what's this "good trance" you're speaking of?

If you have to ask that at this point, you really haven't been paying attention very well.

i probably haven't, why should i?

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur I feel the same way. I get pissed at the musical immaturity of you people. Noobs who know nothing about trance will ask you guys what is the best, and you tell them Ferry and Tiesto and Armin, so they go to the shows and buy the comps and don't want to listen to any good trance because you won't let them, thus overinflating the value of these crackers and perpetuating the airwaves with the stale anthemic crud that some of us have literally launched outselves into voluntary exile as a result.

Is it not up to them to do a little searching of themselves. If one would ask me whether I know of any recent tranceproduction, should I tell that person that trance isn't being made anymore since 1995?
If people really like what they hear they will bother to go back in time and to look up how it was and then make up for themselves how they should perceive that what it now called trance.
If these people don't bother to look up tracks because we don't let them....then what the hell are they doing on the net, all alone, without their mommy.
People can bash you, flame you, maybe even spam you and send angry mails in which they describe how they are shaking their angry fist at you, but how are they going to prevent one of looking up things other than we recommend?
If one asked what track made me love trance, I'll say "Age Of Love - Age Of Love". If one asked which rather recent track I like most, I'll maybe say Altitude - Altitude (S.H.O.K.K. Remix) (I will never like "As The Rush Comes" ya all hear!!!!!! )

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