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-- 40 000 kids about to fail high school...
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Originally posted by The Highroller Again, a 14-17 year old is not the same as a 20 year old. You can't compare how hard university life is with highschool life because they are at 2 different stages in their lives.

I'd say that more depends on the maturity of the person than 'level' of their life.

Although i'm not in highschool anymore i must admit that OAC was a total waste of time.. I had 3 classes in OAC, and I ended up skipping so often that you could see me in the halls more then in class.. I still managed to get into uni by the way I had a spare in grade 12 too! I didnt do anything in highschool and basically it didnt teach me any real life skills either. How about a course on Organization? Time management? How to study more efficiently instead of like a dog for hours on end? How about how to take a test? These are skills that we must master BEFORE university and some never manage to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r quote: Originally posted by The Highroller Again, a 14-17 year old is not the same as a 20 year old. You can't compare how hard university life is with highschool life because they are at 2 different stages in their lives. I'd say that more depends on the maturity of the person than 'level' of their life.

Exactly. It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people say things like 'oh, high school/university is so much harder' (depending on what you're comparing it to), since it's all relative to the point at which you are in life, as well as maturity-wise. While you're at one point, you're building up your repertoire of skills, knowledge, etc. so that you can get to your next point.

Elementary school could've had its challenges, while you were in elementary school.
High school could've had its challenges, while you were in high school.
University could've had its challenges, while you were in university.
ETC.

To compare elementary school with high school, or high school with university, is rather nonsensical.

Its all about the job market.

In my world, high school is an end in itself. It should not be University prep, unless the Gov't wants to pay for my university and make another 4 years of schooling 'mandatory'

Jobs are demanding post secondary education. To do better in post secondary, kids are being prepared in High school(which SHOULD NOT be the purpose of it) and those who wouldnt normally go to Univ are being punished, while those on the border are also being punished. Only the academically strong will survive. Its pretty weak.

ps Im starting a charter school. I will allow snowball fights!@

quote:

Originally posted by AmbiguousBliss I'd say that more depends on the maturity of the person than 'level' of their life. Exactly. It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people say things like 'oh, high school/university is so much harder' (depending on what you're comparing it to), since it's all relative to the point at which you are in life, as well as maturity-wise. While you're at one point, you're building up your repertoire of skills, knowledge, etc. so that you can get to your next point. Elementary school could've had its challenges, while you were in elementary school. High school could've had its challenges, while you were in high school. University could've had its challenges, while you were in university. ETC. To compare elementary school with high school, or high school with university, is rather nonsensical.

wow.. even..

nonsensical she says..

Interesting perspective
BUT: As much as I agree with you, at some point, there must be some sort of margin given to us as a guide to achieve these supplementary skills (in order to move on to the 'next stage')
So this perimeter isn't necessarily a bad thing, but to what you were saying, yes to some extent it is relative.

Yup..as to comparing one's university lifestyle, to that of a highschooler -- pretty sad I must say.

quote:

Originally posted by drgoodvibe Although i'm not in highschool anymore i must admit that OAC was a total waste of time.. I had 3 classes in OAC, and I ended up skipping so often that you could see me in the halls more then in class.. I still managed to get into uni by the way I had a spare in grade 12 too! I didnt do anything in highschool and basically it didnt teach me any real life skills either. How about a course on Organization? Time management? How to study more efficiently instead of like a dog for hours on end? How about how to take a test? These are skills that we must master BEFORE university and some never manage to do it.

Well said...

That extra year of OAC's were absolutely useless. When I compare my knowledge in first year university with others from out of province, it gets humiliating. All it did was waste a year of my life.

-Your Mother

Sigh... you kids in high school see the forest through the trees. You have to step back and see the whole issue:

1) School IS a waste of time. After 4 years of engineering I can't remember using any of the math or science I was taught in high school - if I don't use it in engineering, I don't know where people would use it.

2) Education is NOT a waste of time. It's just that public schooling is, was, and always has been a means to control the masses rather than a means of personal development. Many studies have shown that ordinary (not necessarily bright) kids who have home schooling or private tutors show MUCH better intellectual performance. Why? The biggest reason is that they actually have a measure of control over what they learn, and can seek out what actually interests them.

3) Stop bitching about the teachers. There are bad teachers just like there are bad doctors and bad lawyers and bad cooks. You think it's hard for YOU adjusting to a new program? Think how hard it is for THEM to learn this new material that they were never taught in THEIR schools and thought they'd never have to deal with in their entire lives! And then to sit there and mark a hundred papers and try to figure out where you made a mistake, when they barely know how to answer the question in the first place. Oh yeah, teachers are a bunch of jackasses - try being one yourself and you'll see how motivated you are after a year or two, dealing with students who don't listen and don't care.

4) START blaming the PARENTS. If a kid gets plopped down in front of a TV all day watching Barney videos, you can rest assured s/he's going to grow up with a distorted view of life. Likewise, when they're watching MTV, MuchMusic, crappy soap operas, reality shows and pop star contests all day, they're probably going to grow up with short attention spans (hey here's an idea, why don't we actually address that problem instead of calling it "ADD" and "fixing" it with drugs?). Yes it's true, parents can't control everything that their kids are exposed to, but they can certainly have a profound effect on it up til age 5 or 6 before they go off to school, and those formative years are the most important ones anyway.

5) I'm sorry but the Ontario curriculum is ridiculously easy compared to a lot of Asian and European curricula. It's a lot harder than it was BEFORE, yes, but it's still low by international standards. One valid point that was brought up by Graham was that people haven't been adequately prepared for it by elementary & junior high, and this is completely true - unfortunately the government just decided to "fix" the high school program without "fixing" the preceding 8 years, so high school has become a slap in the face to people who are used to NOT being challenged, paying attention, or having to work.

I've always been an advocate of doing away with public education altogether. But if that's not going to happen, then honestly, don't blame high school or its teachers, blame the lower school and parents, who both didn't do their jobs properly.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut 1) School IS a waste of time. 2) Education is NOT a waste of time.

I agree with you Aaron. Yes it is hard for teachers, I'm not trying to pretend it's not. They keep changing the curriculum, material, and marking scheme on them, and it's definately making their jobs very difficult.

But that does not mean that they should take it out on the students. When they do, they risk our futures just because they are dissatisfied with their working conditions. Most jobs where this happens, it will effect the dissatisfied employee's work, but when you're dealing with something like someone else's future, you can't let it effect your work.

Toronto Star = Liberal Propaganda = Not worth the paper it's printed on (or the bits it's stored with).

Re: Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

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Originally posted by The Highroller Wow!

Graham - I respect your opinion the most on this issue. Very well put.

IMO - The problem isn't the curriculum - it's the streaming of students into the university stream who just shouldn't be there.

I think school's are OK here in Canada.

I went to schools in 3 different countries: Russia, Israel and Canada,
so I pretty much know what I'm talking about.

I think schools provide enough education. The problem is that if students don't wanna study - they can get away with it. Unlike other countries where education is considered more important.

So essentially what we have here is a bunch of spoiled kids who go to high-schools but don't actually learn anything there cause they don't want to learn anything... That simple.

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Originally posted by Durafei ...That simple.

I wish it was.

I spent my highschool years very happily. I did well in the classes because they were easy, I got to play sports, go on road trips and be involved in other school activities and I got to party a bit in the end. I feel very bad for anyone that does not enjoy their highschool. Of course there were things that were not perfect concerning old books and some really shitty teachers but over all highschool was a blast.

Maybe it was the fact that it was in a small town and things were different. I can imagine how kids could get lost in the system when there are so many of them here.

I was part of the guinea pig group who's been screwed by this curriculum... so let me give my thoughts.

There's only ONE problem with the new curriculum. And that's that the government didn't implement it starting at the beginning and let the kids already halfway through the old system work their way through. Instead they just started it up and gave a big "FUCK YOU" to the kids who weren't properly prepared for the new curriculum the way elementary school students currently are. 1 hour of homework per class a night isn't a problem... what IS a problem is that most elementary schools had a "no homework" policy. And then in Grd 7 and 8 there were no measures taken to teach kids proper study and work habits, homework skills weren't really important, just make sure you do well on the tests and you'd be fine. Then in grd 9 The new curriculum hit with it's 4+ hours of homework a night, and many kids just couldn't teach themselves how to work with it on time. That was my problem... I simply didn't have the work skills required to do well in school. (that, plus I really don't give a damn, 90% of what you learn in school will never be put into practise in the real world)

It's NOT the parents fault, in many cases they're forced to work to 5 or 6 every night just so they can pay the bills and keep food on the table and between the hours of 3 and 6, kids can get into a lot of shit. And since schools aren't able to run proper after-school programs anymore, many of those kids end up smoking weed and playing video games rather than doing work or something else constructive. And if parents ask about school work "Oh, I did it all before 5 Mom." And if the parents don't believe that you did it, just pull out some old work and pretend it's new... it's not hard to get around doing homework and there's not much parents can do about it if the kid really doesn't care.

It's NOT the teacher's fault... there have always been, and always will be bad teachers. Shrug, that's life, learn to work around it. Likewise, there will always be and always have been bad managers, and other superiors in jobs... don't expect different from a school.

It's NOT the new curriculum's fault... it really isn't that hard... if I had put even a minimal ammount of effort into my schooling I'd have easily achieved a high 80's average and if I really worked at it a mid-90's.

It IS the government's fault for implementing the new curriculum the way they did. It was a load of BS and screwed over thousands of kids who now have to put their lives on hold while they catch up.

Now... You seem to think the whole article is a "boo hoo" story... if that were true it would be a lot of bitching with no evidence to back up the opinion that there is a problem. But the numbers are there proving that there is a problem with how the new curriculum was put into place... unfortunately no one's smart enough to realise the problem isn't the curriculum or under-funding... it was simply the way it was implemented. And there's nothing that can be done to fix the problem right now, the only thing that will stop the mass drop-outs is time, because eventually the elementary kids are going to enter high school and succeed, because they're being properly prepared for it. What they need now is something for the drop-outs to get their lives back on track.

^^Unless of course they change the curriculum again (which they will)

You brought up a very good point with the curriculum implementation that I forgot to address.

The problem today is, kids are growing up in front of tv's, and not in front of toys and books.

our minds aren't being challenged right from the start anymore...

quote:

Originally posted by reverieX2 THIS IS WHAT THE PROBLEM IS. They didn't start us in the new curriculum when we first started school in Kindergarten.

Exactly like I said before

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker Toronto Star = Liberal Propaganda = Not worth the paper it's printed on (or the bits it's stored with).

oh? what do you read?

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Originally posted by Mosaic oh? what do you read?

The only quality newspaper in Canada: The Globe & Mail.

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Originally posted by Hami The problem today is, kids are growing up in front of tv's, and not in front of toys and books. our minds aren't being challenged right from the start anymore...

Ummm false. That was the last generation. Hardly anyone watches TV anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker The only quality newspaper in Canada: The Globe & Mail.

damn right! (my dad is a graphic designer/cartographer for the globe)

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Originally posted by Elmo-On-XTC damn right! (my dad is a graphic designer/cartographer for the globe)

that's sick

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Originally posted by The Highroller Ummm false. That was the last generation. Hardly anyone watches TV anymore.

VERY TRUE.

Marketers are having a hell of a time reaching young people due to their (decreasing) television view time.

It's becoming quite a problem in the business.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker VERY TRUE. Marketers are having a hell of a time reaching young people due to their (decreasing) television view time. It's becoming quite a problem in the business.

cyberculture

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