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-- The Anti-Creationist Toolkit!!!!
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quote:

Originally posted by occrider Hey Mr.Opus, just found this site ... it's awesome. The Skeptics Annotated Bible It should really get under the skin of any quoting bible thumpers you may encounter.

Wow, great website. I've gained much of that info. through the evcforum.net in a couple of places:

http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/for...topics&number=1

http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/for...topics&number=6

Truly engaging people there. It's fun as hell to lurk about.

quote:

Man ... we've amassed a pretty good collection here. I kind of want to get into an argument now. Where did whoahnellie go? Are there any IDers we can lure here to ambush?

Light the torches! Burn the village!!! Destroy it all!!!!!!

I honestly don't blame Nellie really. This really isin't a very strong forum to debate science in general, though I never object when a good science argument comes about.

And as much as it is enticing to skew the lines between evolution and atheism, I do want to point out as a side note that nearly 40% of evolutionists believe in a deity, whether it be an actual religious sect like Christianity, or a self-appointed deist (my current belief system - subject to change). One of my favorite books was from Kenneth Miller called "Finding Darwin's God". A great book from a Christian research scientist who does well with debunking ID (esp. Behe's work):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books

It's hard not to get religion involved with this debate. I feel strongly that the religious right asked for it with their Creationist/Christian God zealotry, and have invoked the rationality of atheist beliefs as a consequence. The negative aspect is, however, is that the Creationists will therefore believe that atheism/agnosticism is what drives evolutionist research, much in the same way that their religion is the primary motive for their Creationist beliefs. Even worse, they want to brand atheism as a religion from this result. Nothing could be more false on all accounts.

But then again, all evolutionists and non-Christians are going to hell anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. I tell ya, if hell is where the fundamentalist zealots will not be, I can't wait to throw an eternal party there. Somehow, I tend to feel the opposite is true, however on where certain individuals will go, provided the heaven/hell belief is held.

Okay, now I really need a fucking beer.

http://www.christianburner.com/home.html

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

are the ones i use

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Man ... we've amassed a pretty good collection here. I kind of want to get into an argument now. Where did whoahnellie go? Are there any IDers we can lure here to ambush?

Andy/TTa should be around, but getting him into the political forum would take a huge effort.

But yeah, whenever anyone justifies something with a bible quote, I head straight to the sceptics anotated bible, and failing that, straight to the bible itself to see if I can dig up a contradiction/error.

Evolution is not 100% proven yet, although it is a hell of a lot further along being proven than creationism is.

I wouldn't be too harsh on creationists however. Eventually we all must question our belief in whether there is a God, particularly later in life when our mortality becomes more apparent and we must ask ourselves "will I just cease to exist after I die and be put in the ground to rot, or is there something beyond death, something better perhaps?". I don't know about you but I'd prefer the latter.

I think creationists basically have this irrational fear that if Darwinism is true, and more and more people believe it's fact, then christianity will die, and as a consequence God will die and none of us will reach heaven.

Another fear they have is that their power to preach is diminished by Darwinism - and maybe their reduced power in particular is what has them more concerned. The fact that if Darwinism is taught in our schoools they will have a reduced chance to convert young impressionable minds to christianity. This reduced power is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Finding your faith should never be something that is sold to you like a used car by some preacher. It's something you must find by yourself. Your beliefs are something that is extremely personal and unique to you and should never come about because someone told you what your "path" should be.

Personally, my main problem with the bible is that it basically says if you don't worship our lord God then you are going to hell - this sounds suspiciously like blackmail to me. If you do worship him and obey him then you're going to heaven - this sounds suspiciously like taking out an insurance policy. I don't know, it just seems off to me. I continue to search for answers .

Darwinism and belief in God can co-exist. If they couldn't then I don't think science and religion could co-exist either; if creationists believe that then we're all fucked if they ever get into any meaningful place of power.

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