TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- No Words... Just Look
Pages (2): « 1 [2]

And guess what, we were on their side! The Afghans fought against the Serbs, and so did we!

Yeopus, if Sharon is representitive of Israeli publc opinion then I dont think there is a hope in hells chance of peace, never mind what the Palestinians think!

Out of interest, what is the general opinion on creating the Biblical 'Greater Israel', does this have large support? Whats your views on it too?

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King This had nothing to do with their religion.... he said there was so much hate, that religion was the last thing.

well I don't know about that, can you name me one non-muslim suicide bomber?




I can't picture any athesits volunteering for these type of adventrues.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley And guess what, we were on their side! The Afghans fought against the Serbs, and so did we! Yeopus, if Sharon is representitive of Israeli publc opinion then I dont think there is a hope in hells chance of peace, never mind what the Palestinians think!

Why not?
Barak, Peres, Bibi, and Rabin were all also representitive of Israeli opinion. I think the problem here is exactly what the Palestinians think, not never mind it. Israeli opinion is a direct corrolation to Palestinian thought and action.

quote:

Out of interest, what is the general opinion on creating the Biblical 'Greater Israel', does this have large support? Whats your views on it too?

I don't know.. I haven't seen anythign really scientific on it. I'm sure many love the idea of a Greater Israel, but they all realize it is, and will remain for perhaps forever just that - a nice idea, a nice dream. In general Israelis are very pargramatic, and they realize a solution like that is as likely as the Palestinians having a greater Palestine.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus well I don't know about that, can you name me one non-muslim suicide bomber?

The Tamil Tigers

And of course the Japanese Kamikaze pilots during WW2

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King The Tamil Tigers

ok fair enough. Name two.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgey And of course the Japanese Kamikaze pilots during WW2

Just because they commited sucide and had bombs doesn't mean they were suicide bombers They unanimously (to the best of my knowledge) attacked only military tagerts - and military 'sacrifise' is as old as war.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Just because they commited sucide and had bombs doesn't mean they were suicide bombers They unanimously (to the best of my knowledge) attacked only military tagerts - and military 'sacrifise' is as old as war.

Also it's kind of religious since they committed kamikaze attacks in the name of their emperor who they viewed as part God.

The Japanese Kamikaza pilots were exactly the same as suicide bombers. It was not just "sacrifice in war" it was killing themselves cos that was their belief, exactly same as Muslim suicide bombers. All you have to do is believe you are going to a better place and it is exactly the same. You say they didn't target civilian targets but they didn't have the choice did they? If America was joined onto Japan I am sure they would (lets face it, every side in the war that could, targeted civilian targets as well as military targets, what makes you think the Japanses would have been any different to Germany, Britain or the US?)

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley The Japanese Kamikaza pilots were exactly the same as suicide bombers.

quote:

...All you have to do is believe you are going to a better place and it is exactly the same.

...except that the Kamikaze missions were a tactical strategy and the pilots did it for their country, it had nothing whatsoever to do with religious beliefs, therefore it couldn't have had to do with "going to a better place".

quote:

You say they didn't target civilian targets but they didn't have the choice did they?

They didn't?

quote:

...lets face it, every side in the war that could, targeted civilian targets as well as military targets

quote:

what makes you think the Japanses would have been any different to Germany, Britain or the US?)

Wow, I can make so little sense of that post... I know you can do better than that. I think you're off your game today, George...

Well, the Kamikaze pilots did see a lot of honor in what they were doing, and they were promised that if they did this, they would reverred in the next life. While it may not have MUCH religious context, it's still kinda the same thing as the Palestinian suicide bombers. One major difference though is that the Kamikaze pilots were not terrorists, they were part of an organized military.

quote:

Originally posted by DR86 Well, the Kamikaze pilots did see a lot of honor in what they were doing, and they were promised that if they did this, they would reverred in the next life. While it may not have MUCH religious context, it's still kinda the same thing as the Palestinian suicide bombers. One major difference though is that the Kamikaze pilots were not terrorists, they were part of an organized military.

Hmmm plus they didn't hide themselves among the civilian population. As a matter of fact I've never even read of a single account of a Japanese fighting force hiding themselves as civilians to attack US invaders in Iowa Jima, Okinawa, Guam, or any of the island invasions. I guess that would go against the Bushido ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Hmmm plus they didn't hide themselves among the civilian population. As a matter of fact I've never even read of a single account of a Japanese fighting force hiding themselves as civilians to attack US invaders in Iowa Jima, Okinawa, Guam, or any of the island invasions. I guess that would go against the Bushido ...

true. It would be against bushido, and the japanese military would never have done that. I think (correct me if i'm wrong) the only time the Japanese "did not fight with honor" was when they ambushed the Americans on Guadalcanal. You could consider Pearl Harbor as well, but i'm not so sure.

quote:

One major difference though is that the Kamikaze pilots were not terrorists, they were part of an organized military.

Oh thats ok then! So if you are part of a military you cannot commit terrorism? So what Zimbabwe is doing to white farmers and opposition is not terrorism? What Hitler did to the Jews is not terrorism? And since when have terrorists (none state actors by your definition) been 'badies'? America was founded on terrorism. Same with Israel and Republic of Ireland (aint gonna get the rest tho! ) Were they evil bastards or do you agree with their motives???

quote:

...except that the Kamikaze missions were a tactical strategy and the pilots did it for their country, it had nothing whatsoever to do with religious beliefs, therefore it couldn't have had to do with "going to a better place".

Palestinian suicide bombs are tactical. They are designed to win the war and defeat the enemy, same as the kamikaze pilots. They are also doing it for their country (or to get a country - just like the Jewish terrorists that killed British to get their own country...)

quote:

Hmmm plus they didn't hide themselves among the civilian population

Its a guerilla (military) tactic. You design your tactics to suit your needs. Mingling with the locals is a tactic for when you are under occupation.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Oh thats ok then! So if you are part of a military you cannot commit terrorism? So what Zimbabwe is doing to white farmers and opposition is not terrorism? What Hitler did to the Jews is not terrorism? ...

Exactly, I always believe if you are part of a military you are not a terrorist - you are a WAR CRIMINAL. I think terrorist and war criminal are mututally exclusive and lie of the difference of a government army. An army that slaughters civilians is a war criminal - a "gurriella" or civilian that slaughters civilians is a terrorist. You can't be both, so go a head and chose which one you want to adopt.

quote:

Palestinian suicide bombs are tactical.

So you are telling me now that you consider Israeli civilians strategic targets? You know you are just one utterance away from just stating that the Palestinians can exterminate every Israel - this would be a tactical and 'legitimate' policy?

quote:

They are designed to win the war and defeat the enemy, same as the kamikaze pilots.

Again, how is killing Israeli civilians going to win the war and defeat the enemy, unless your policy is to exterminate the enemy?

Kamikaze pilots soley struck military targets; battleships, aircraft carriers etc. You are not going to see Japanese expend their military resources and send all their planes to kill 10,000 civilians in LA. Its against their "honor" (something I believe Palestinians lack), and simply completely stupid tactically.

quote:

They are also doing it for their country (or to get a country - just like the Jewish terrorists that killed British to get their own country...)

The Jewish terrorist didn't "disguise" themselves, or suicide bomb themselves to kill British civilians- its a big leap you are making here and the comparison is not morally equivalent in case you can't catch it.

quote:

Its a guerilla (military) tactic. You design your tactics to suit your needs. Mingling with the locals is a tactic for when you are under occupation.

I could understand disguising yourself as a civilian to attack military targets (of course again, then you must be ready for the consequences of violating the laws of war: which will most likely be 'collective punishment') but disguising yourself as a civilian to KILL CIVILIANS - why am I the only one who think that seems to think that is a new low in humanity?

look,
leave it at this...nothing compares to suicide bombings. they're inhumane, and just about as extreme and psychpathic as it gets. no further discussion on such a stupid topic as "palestinian suicide bombers vs. japanese kamikaze pilots" is needed.

quote:

Originally posted by DR86 look, leave it at this...nothing compares to suicide bombings. they're inhumane, and just about as extreme and psychpathic as it gets. no further discussion on such a stupid topic as "palestinian suicide bombers vs. japanese kamikaze pilots" is needed.

...
this movie is still doesnt go out of my head, i came to israel when i was 7 years old (now i'm 18.5), and in that period so much suicide bombings have accured here but the TV always censured it alot. its good they did that, cause that movie is so sick, and the worth thing of all is that this is the reality of each and every suicide bombing. horrible.

quote:

So you are telling me now that you consider Israeli civilians strategic targets?

I dont consider Israeli civilians strategic targets because I am not a suicide bomer and I have no desire to see harm come to any innocent people. The Palestinian suicide bombers on the other hand DO consider Israeli civilians staregic targets. I would assume the thining there is make their lives bad enough and either the Israeli government will concede and get out of West Bank/Gaza, or the Israeli public will pressure the govt to do that.

quote:

Again, how is killing Israeli civilians going to win the war and defeat the enemy, unless your policy is to exterminate the enemy?

Do you think the IRA had as their goal to kill all British? Or ETA to kill all Spanish? No. Yet they kill(ed) innocent civilians...

quote:

but disguising yourself as a civilian to KILL CIVILIANS - why am I the only one who think that seems to think that is a new low in humanity?

I think you'll have a job trying to find anyone on here that doesn't agree. All I am trying to do is make you understand why these people do it. You seem to think Israel has done nothing to provoke this responce. It has. I have no reason what so ever to take any sides in this argument have I? So why do you think I have the views I have?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.