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-- George Bush and jobs that never came
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Ahem.... excuse me

orrcrider, cal... do you two realise that you guys are saying the exact same shit? yet you still manage to find a debate

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Originally posted by smokeape So anyone unemployed out here on the post and living in the US? If you're not employed say so and state your reasons why you are not. I do not want to hear about derelicts on a stret corner or someone the poster is not remotely related to. If one of our posters is not employed we can possibly help.

Let's be fair here, to pay for internet access, most of the regular posters here are going to be holding down a job or at least studying.

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Originally posted by Ondrayce There is no way to capture every person who wants or needs to look for work without surveying every single unemployed person in the country. The government doesn't do that. The unemployment rate is based on the number of people who have filed for unemployment. That is the only solid figure that our government can accurately base the rate upon without guessing. This will not include the 16 year old who is trying to get work (in "manufacturing" lol) at McDonalds. Whether he needs it or not. Since most of unemployment is made up of people who have quit or have been laid off for reasons beyond their control, (downsizing, budget cuts etc...) people who have been fired are not included as well. It also won't include unemployed people who are trying to start their own businesses. The government can't calculate your wanting or needing a job telepathically. And they wont be able to know whether you're even trying to find a job or not. You have to be registered as unemployed to be counted in the rate.

No I posted the bls survey methods. It does NOT merely rely upon those who have filed for UI. The purpose of the household survey is designed to capture those who either do not file for UI or those who have had their benefits expire (or those who have been fired). You must be thinking of the payroll survey. THere are TWO determinants of the unemployment rate.

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Originally posted by Q5echo 5.6% damn staggering number I guaranty 2.3% aren't even looking for a job! This economy has never turn on a dime, but it is turning. Kerry will save this country by turning down the nomination. He's not the one we need in office and most intelligent people know this. ...And Hooknife, if GB lied to you about WMD's then the entire world lied to you. Come to think of it more people have lied to you than you care to know. Don't get sucked in to economic projections too much. Don't get sucked in to a liberal agenda too much either.

I think you miss the point of my above remarks. What I was trying to say was Mr. Bush has told the American public what they want to hear to get whatever he needs at the time he needs it and then never produces what he promises. WTF are you talking about "Don't get sucked in to a liberal agenda too much, I say you should open your eyes.

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Originally posted by hooknife What I was trying to say was Mr. Bush has told the American public what they want to hear to get whatever he needs at the time he needs it and then never produces what he promises.

Sorry to interject, but how is that different from any other politician on the face of the planet?

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Sorry to interject, but how is that different from any other politician on the face of the planet?

He is my president and its my responsibility to keep mine in check.

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Originally posted by hooknife He is my president and its my responsibility to keep mine in check.

Okay, good luck. I hope Kerry fulfills all of his promises for you.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Okay, good luck. I hope Kerry fulfills all of his promises for you.

So let me understand you, you are being lied to about various issues but that�s just fine with you? Your attitude is well every government lies and that includes the George Bush so why even bother making a change. Hmmmmmm, sounds kind of weird to me.

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Originally posted by hooknife So let me understand you, you are being lied to about various issues but that�s just fine with you? Your attitude is well every government lies and that includes the George Bush so why even bother making a change. Hmmmmmm, sounds kind of weird to me.

You can call me defeatest, but this is the way politics have been done since Roman times and before. Machiavelli had it right. Politics and politicians use lies and manipulation to achieve their goals, while also attempting to reach the goals of thier constituents. There are some things, like jobs, happiness or economic growth that a politician can promise, but have very little affect over.

As a libertarian, the only two things I really care about are personal freedoms and smaller government intrusion, none of which I think Bush has done a particuarly good job with. However, I don't think Kerry would do any better, as he still has yet to establish any kind of original platform or concrete means of change other than to say he will do the opposite of what Bush is doing...whatever that means.

I see no reason to "change horses midstream" since the only reason I would be voting for Kerry is that he is not Bush. Since I do not see any major differences in the two, I see no reason to vote against him due his empty political promises that have been made by other politicans for millenia.

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Originally posted by hooknife So let me understand you, you are being lied to about various issues but that�s just fine with you? Your attitude is well every government lies and that includes the George Bush so why even bother making a change. Hmmmmmm, sounds kind of weird to me.

It all comes down to the lesser of 2 evils.

GW is an Idiot- I dont know if Kerry is much better but I
think he would at least shift the focus back to fixing our fucked up
country a tad more.

GW has done so much BS - How much worse could Kerry do?
not much.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono You can call me defeatest, but this is the way politics have been done since Roman times and before. Machiavelli had it right. Politics and politicians use lies and manipulation to achieve their goals, while also attempting to reach the goals of thier constituents. There are some things, like jobs, happiness or economic growth that a politician can promise, but have very little affect over. As a libertarian, the only two things I really care about are personal freedoms and smaller government intrusion, none of which I think Bush has done a particuarly good job with. However, I don't think Kerry would do any better, as he still has yet to establish any kind of original platform or concrete means of change other than to say he will do the opposite of what Bush is doing...whatever that means. I see no reason to "change horses midstream" since the only reason I would be voting for Kerry is that he is not Bush. Since I do not see any major differences in the two, I see no reason to vote against him due his empty political promises that have been made by other politicans for millenia.

So the attitude is this, Bush sucks, you and I both know it, BUT its a known quantity so good or bad lets just keep him?! Its like I said in my above remarks....sounds kind of weird to me.

Please don�t misunderstand me, its not that I think Kerry is some great guy that�s not going to do me or the world wrong I just see Kerry as the lesser of 2 evils. Bush has not done a very good job and maybe someone else will.

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Originally posted by xKaoSx It all comes down to the lesser of 2 evils. GW is an Idiot- I dont know if Kerry is much better but I think he would at least shift the focus back to fixing our fucked up country a tad more. GW has done so much BS - How much worse could Kerry do? not much.

You our spot on my friend.

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Originally posted by hooknife So the attitude is this, Bush sucks, you and I both know it, BUT its a known quantity so good or bad lets just keep him?! Its like I said in my above remarks....sounds kind of weird to me. Please don�t misunderstand me, its not that I think Kerry is some great guy that�s not going to do me or the world wrong I just see Kerry as the lesser of 2 evils. Bush has not done a very good job and maybe someone else will.

It's more like "Bush is not great, neither is Kerry, so why change?"

As I said before, Kerry has yet to say much of anything in terms of a platform or a means of carrying out his agenda. Thus far, almost his entire campaigning has been spent telling us he is against Bush and what he has done. He wouldn't be much of an opponent if he liked Bush, would he? Until he can prove to me that he is different from Bush and has concrete methods and rationale behind his platform (when he decides to let us in on it), I'm not paying much attention to Kerry.

Right now I see two equal evils, if you want to put it that way, and until Kerry makes me think otherwise, I'm going with the stability of an incumbent president, especially in times of such international strife. I will not vote for Kerry merely because he is not Bush and because "he couldn't do any worse."

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Originally posted by NeoPhono I'm going with the stability of an incumbent president, especially in times of such international strife.

I�m sorry to say but the reason we have this "strife" is largely due to Bush.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono It's more like "Bush is not great, neither is Kerry, so why change?" As I said before, Kerry has yet to say much of anything in terms of a platform or a means of carrying out his agenda. Thus far, almost his entire campaigning has been spent telling us he is against Bush and what he has done. He wouldn't be much of an opponent if he liked Bush, would he? Until he can prove to me that he is different from Bush and has concrete methods and rationale behind his platform (when he decides to let us in on it), I'm not paying much attention to Kerry. Right now I see two equal evils, if you want to put it that way, and until Kerry makes me think otherwise, I'm going with the stability of an incumbent president, especially in times of such international strife. I will not vote for Kerry merely because he is not Bush and because "he couldn't do any worse."

The difference is- Bush is happy with the way things are right now- He wont bother changing a thing. If Kerry comes in- could he REALLY do any worse than GW? I doubt it- All he could do is better. so let's recap

Bush - Un-motivated\Complacent
Kerry - Motivated

I really dont want four more years of the same bullshit-

Im just sick of seeing his stupid face actually-
Kerry's not exactly a handsome gentleman either but he
doesnt look like a monkey.

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Originally posted by hooknife I�m sorry to say but the reason we have this "strife" is largely due to Bush.

Well, as far as I know it's due to a terrorist group called al-Qaeda and their subsidiaries that decided to commit such crimes as flying airplanes into the World Trade Center...maybe I'm wrong though.

I just called a guy on an obvious mistake thats all.

Im not arguing about how the system is good or bad or if it should be changed or how poverty is wellbeing is included there. I never said anythinga bout how i the unemployment rate of US or Canada is good/bad, occrider. I dont CARE how many people are not included in the rate thanks to the technicalities.

If you check my first post, all I did is I just questioned his expertise in the field of economics by calling his rookie mistake, thats ALL.

...one day I'm going to have a seizure reading what you people here say

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Originally posted by NeoPhono It's more like "Bush is not great, neither is Kerry, so why change?" As I said before, Kerry has yet to say much of anything in terms of a platform or a means of carrying out his agenda. Thus far, almost his entire campaigning has been spent telling us he is against Bush and what he has done. He wouldn't be much of an opponent if he liked Bush, would he? Until he can prove to me that he is different from Bush and has concrete methods and rationale behind his platform (when he decides to let us in on it), I'm not paying much attention to Kerry.

Have you look at his stance on issues?:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

I'm sorry but he has unveiled a number of ideas and future policies. Take a read and then let's discuss them specifically if you wish.

But merely saying Kerry hasn't said much of anything is pure Limbaugh rhetoric. Futhermore, he's still unveiling more specifics as he goes. It is only April 1st - quite a ways away from November. How long did it take Bush to create his specifics for his election run? I imagine it was on a similar timeline with Kerry's.

quote:

Right now I see two equal evils, if you want to put it that way, and until Kerry makes me think otherwise, I'm going with the stability of an incumbent president, especially in times of such international strife. I will not vote for Kerry merely because he is not Bush and because "he couldn't do any worse."

I disagree with the stability issue, and I would also surmise given the evidence that much of the international strife can be attributed to Bush's foreign policies (or lack thereof prior to 9/11).

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Originally posted by Cal I just called a guy on an obvious mistake thats all. Im not arguing about how the system is good or bad or if it should be changed or how poverty is wellbeing is included there. I never said anythinga bout how i the unemployment rate of US or Canada is good/bad, occrider. I dont CARE how many people are not included in the rate thanks to the technicalities. If you check my first post, all I did is I just questioned his expertise in the field of economics by calling his rookie mistake, thats ALL. ...one day I'm going to have a seizure reading what you people here say

I'm not arguing with you man.
There are unemployed, but employable, people that are not looking for employment I was one of them. Collected unemployment for eight months in '94

Besides the comment I made about the unemployment rate vs. the scrubs noy looking for work was, admittedly, an exaggeration, a generalization, a hypothization

please accept my humble apology.

P.S. I'm a high school drop out. dumbest decision I ever made.

Would you stop apologizing?

Im not arguing with you either, because i simply dont care, dont you people understand what im trying to say here?

The whole issue is moot at this point anyway

quote:

Originally posted by Cal Would you stop apologizing? Im not arguing with you either, because i simply dont care, dont you people understand what im trying to say here? The whole issue is moot at this point anyway

You said "moot"
he hehe heh heheeheh

Geee-zuhs guys, wait for me next time eh? All this in one day?!

Kerry's main plan for creating more job opportunities is cutting ties off with countries that we get oil from and creating energy plants here in the U.S. Energy plants = people to build them + people to run them = more jobs + oil independence.

It's not technically the President's job to create more jobs for citizens... as someone else already stated, it's his role to create a more stable economy, thus bringing around more job opportunities.

And yes, the job market sucks right now. How do I know? Because I'm on my third job in three months. After finishing with my long term employment with one company, I sent out my resume and went for interviews to about 73 different companies (all ranging in distance from where I live). Once I finally got a job (almost three weeks later), I ended up losing it two days later because someone with more experience than me suddenly became available. Thus, starting another search which ended me up at my job 43 resume's, 9 interviews, and 3 weeks later.

My mother, who just finished her ultrasound sonography diagnostic technologist degree, has no hope for a job in Florida, because simply, there are none available. The job market around the country is the same. Simply, there are no jobs. Even in over crowded hosptials, they can't afford to staff another employee.

Various friends have been searching for jobs for months. I don't know if it's just this town/state that is cursed... but from my end, the job market blows.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono Well, as far as I know it's due to a terrorist group called al-Qaeda and their subsidiaries that decided to commit such crimes as flying airplanes into the World Trade Center...maybe I'm wrong though.

That�s what GB wants you to think. I and most of the world that hates us does not like are policies, our reasons for going to war, our bully mentality and MOST of all GB. If you want to be GB�s little puppet then what can I say, you are welcome to be deceived.

quote:

Originally posted by anuneventrade Geee-zuhs guys, wait for me next time eh? All this in one day?! Kerry's main plan for creating more job opportunities is cutting ties off with countries that we get oil from and creating energy plants here in the U.S. Energy plants = people to build them + people to run them = more jobs + oil independence. It's not technically the President's job to create more jobs for citizens... as someone else already stated, it's his role to create a more stable economy, thus bringing around more job opportunities. And yes, the job market sucks right now. How do I know? Because I'm on my third job in three months. After finishing with my long term employment with one company, I sent out my resume and went for interviews to about 73 different companies (all ranging in distance from where I live). Once I finally got a job (almost three weeks later), I ended up losing it two days later because someone with more experience than me suddenly became available. Thus, starting another search which ended me up at my job 43 resume's, 9 interviews, and 3 weeks later. My mother, who just finished her ultrasound sonography diagnostic technologist degree, has no hope for a job in Florida, because simply, there are none available. The job market around the country is the same. Simply, there are no jobs. Even in over crowded hosptials, they can't afford to staff another employee. Various friends have been searching for jobs for months. I don't know if it's just this town/state that is cursed... but from my end, the job market blows.

Yea- I hear it's a real rat race out in Florida- My friend lives out there and cant find a job worth a shit-
He is seriously thinking about moving back to San Diego (There are at least some job opportunities out here- more than FLA)
You're lucky you found a job so quickly-
My last "gap" was 5 months.

Plain and simple we need a president who is going to cut us off a bit from worrying about the worlds problems and start throwing some money at fixing local problems.

i think a point that should be taken is the following:

when voting in a new president you are basically 'wasting' a year with the reorientaiton of departments, new personal etc.

It takes about a year for a new president to just gain hold of the power avaialble to him.

If there isn't much different between two leaders, it is primarly for this reason - the wasted time of change and reorientation - that people vote for an incumbent.

If you don't feel very strongly, or passionately about Kerry, I can't really understand how you would be willing to compromise a year of reorientation to make him presidency.

This year of change is very different, from my understand of the 911 commission, I prime reason for the ability of Al Q to strike on Sep 11th was the fact that they were enjoying the ineffectiveness in government to decide its policy on foreign affair matters and counter-terrorism.

I fear another year of waste like this might have similar effects. Especially when you consider a new president means a new guy at the Pentagon and a new guy in the defense department (which Rumsfeld, love him or hate him, has done an excellent job in reforming).

Though I wouldn't mind Bush letting go of Tenet (a Clinton appointee...) though I don't know, but I have a feeling Kerry would keep him.

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