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-- What's with this stupid food tax?
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quote:

Originally posted by drgoodvibe its a nice far flung generalization..

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

Public sector unions are plagued with inefficency.

Private sector unions are plagued with inefficency and shaddy dealings (ask any member, and believe it or not I was in a union when I worked at a beer factory, shady dealings indeed).

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker I guess my vegie soup or salad I get a few times a week @ $2.50 isn't healthy - same with the banana I buy every morning and same with the hard boiled egg I get a few times per week.

I'm talking volume of food, dollar for dollar.

You'll buy a lot more veggie soup than you will hamburgers to get equally full.

Klein says that if oil prices stay where they are, ALberta will be debt free by 2005
the thought of running in the black scares you doesnt it.
that rednecked alcoholic will get re elected, slash social services some more, create a 2 tiered health care system, re regulate electricity and HOT DAMN alberta will be the best place to live in the world.(if you are rich, and not sick)

The Liberals both federally and provincially are nothing but 2 faced liars.

First we have Squinty Mcguinty, Mister "i wont raise your taxes". What does he do the first day in office? Raise CIgarette taxes!! Then he won't raise electricity rates. WHat does he do the FIRST day in office? Raise Electrcity rates!! Keeping with the tax theme, we now face higher business taxes, a reversal in a planned tax cut for this year which the canadian tax payers federation considers a tax hike, and not to mention this no so called fat tax which, lets face it ladies and gentlemen, is just a tax grab and nothing more.

Then we can talk about his promise to freeze and roll back Hwy 407 tolls. They actually went UP! How about his promise to stop 6000 houses on the Oak Ridges Moraine? Guess what? They are being built as we speak!

Love him or leave him, at least we knew what we were getting into with Harris. At least Harris kept most of his promises. Back in 1995 he promised tax cuts (got them!) a balanced budget (thank you!) an end to hiring qoutas (he did that too) and abolishing photo radar (did that too) .....Most importantly, he never blatantly lied like McGuinty has. McGuinty must have set a few records for shortest time ever to break promises...

Walkerton was not Harris' fault. It was that idiot who fudged the reports. People who believed otherwise have been hoodwinked by party politics.

Now lets talk about the Chretien/Martin cronies.

They "misplaced" 1 Billion dollars in the HRDC scandal. Chretien baltantly lied and covered up the Grand Mere incident. The RCMP is investigating the former prime minister and friends for the latest ad scam scandal.. $130 million isnt it? It's look more and more like blatant third world style corruption to me. Oh and lets talk about the promise that "i will abolish da GST"...

Martin is trying to brand himself and the Liberals as a new party now that chretien is gone. But remember, he was finance minister when all this went down. That folks, is the second most powerful position in the country after prime minister (the deputy prime minister is a figurehead). He was every much a part of it as chretien was.

And now some of you say that you are going to vote for these criminals? SHAME ON YOU!

"well they are all the same" maybe so... but say you had a choice between letting several strangers into your house. You know One of them stole many things from your house on his last visit but the other 3 are unknown and may or may not steal from you... Who would you let in the door?

Some more tax? Pffft... I guess some more tax write-offs for moi...

and as Jay put it so nicely above, they're all corrupt... 99% of them. Once you have that kind of power, access to that kind of money, the greed kicks in and all common sense and humanity is gone out the window... so if you're really relying on the politians to make your life any better, good luck. The ones that actually do something good don't come around that often.

yeah i heard this on the news .. ghey

The least you can do is kick the ones that you know are corrupt out of office. Thats why its still important to vote.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Me too! I thought we were keeping this provincial so I didn't bother to go federal. Harper is a nutcase. Him and his new party will not get my vote. Federal Liberals are pretty damn blue in my opinion (even more so with Martin at the healm). Any comparison between Daulton and Martin is crazy. Daulton is as red as they get. Martin is a liberal because his father was and because he wants to get elected (not because he is a -true- liberal). Martin will get my vote federally until the conservatives stop being such friggin radicals.

Me three! I don't want to risk another Mulroney in the house (read http://www.netti.fi/~makako/mind/cameron.htm --this was his fault). That mentality has got to go...he sold us out with the GST. Then Harris sold out the other little pieces (Rent Control Abolished, 407ETR, Walkerton--it was all his fault). I vote no more Conservatives for atleast 30 more years. Besides, when Trudeau--aka the power of the purse--was around he got us out of 2 recessions and our debt was only 11 billion. When Mulroney stepped in, he trippled it.

Did we forget that the first talk of selling the LCBO was originally the conservatives plan.

Government is Government, but bad government is all about the Conservatives.

Neway, I got off topic.

The real issue here is the 8% Meal Tax

I say we all sign up online against it.

go to www.nomealtax.ca

...and just SAY NO to McGuinty. I'm sure he'll get the message and listen to it. The Conservatives won't do that.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 The Liberals both federally and provincially are nothing but 2 faced liars. First we have Squinty Mcguinty, Mister "i wont raise your taxes". What does he do the first day in office? Raise CIgarette taxes!! Then he won't raise electricity rates. WHat does he do the FIRST day in office? Raise Electrcity rates!! Keeping with the tax theme, we now face higher business taxes, a reversal in a planned tax cut for this year which the canadian tax payers federation considers a tax hike, and not to mention this no so called fat tax which, lets face it ladies and gentlemen, is just a tax grab and nothing more. Then we can talk about his promise to freeze and roll back Hwy 407 tolls. They actually went UP! How about his promise to stop 6000 houses on the Oak Ridges Moraine? Guess what? They are being built as we speak! Love him or leave him, at least we knew what we were getting into with Harris. At least Harris kept most of his promises. Back in 1995 he promised tax cuts (got them!) a balanced budget (thank you!) an end to hiring qoutas (he did that too) and abolishing photo radar (did that too) .....Most importantly, he never blatantly lied like McGuinty has. McGuinty must have set a few records for shortest time ever to break promises... Walkerton was not Harris' fault. It was that idiot who fudged the reports. People who believed otherwise have been hoodwinked by party politics. Now lets talk about the Chretien/Martin cronies. They "misplaced" 1 Billion dollars in the HRDC scandal. Chretien baltantly lied and covered up the Grand Mere incident. The RCMP is investigating the former prime minister and friends for the latest ad scam scandal.. $130 million isnt it? It's look more and more like blatant third world style corruption to me. Oh and lets talk about the promise that "i will abolish da GST"... Martin is trying to brand himself and the Liberals as a new party now that chretien is gone. But remember, he was finance minister when all this went down. That folks, is the second most powerful position in the country after prime minister (the deputy prime minister is a figurehead). He was every much a part of it as chretien was. And now some of you say that you are going to vote for these criminals? SHAME ON YOU! "well they are all the same" maybe so... but say you had a choice between letting several strangers into your house. You know One of them stole many things from your house on his last visit but the other 3 are unknown and may or may not steal from you... Who would you let in the door?

OK you asked for it-----HARRIS RUINED ONTARIO
He was a tyrant who enforced draconeon rules--ask any 3rd yr educated (Harris wasn't) Law Student.
His tax cuts came at a price that could have been avoided!!!!!
OUR ONTARIO HUMAN RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED
He didn't balance any budget, he just fudged it so that it looked good. Ask one of his main contributor--that would be the same guy you refer to as that Walkerton Idiot.
His Common Sense
-closed hospitals: people had to drive for hours to get to one. And children died

-closed schools: Less $ on books and extracaric's

-brought cuts to Environment Standards: Walkerton--more kids died

-deregulated necessary service and cut public transit - look at where we are now--facing increases at the mercy of fat cats TTC

-forced cuts on the already poor single moms--i.e. single preg. mom put on house arrest and found dead wks later. While the amount of $$ spent to cut welfare was considerably less than what was used to mail out the common sense propagand to each house 2x a year.

Conservative/Harris spent more money on his campaign than any other party in history.
LETS NOT FORGET THE INCREDIBLE RAISES AND VACATION TIME THEY APPROVED FOR THEMSELVES -- ALL AT THE TAXPAYERS EXPENSE

And to CORRECT YOU--Harris sold 407ETR to a private US company that raised the toll. That is being challenged in court now by McGuinty, in hopes that we can get back the 407 due to breach of contract, when the toll was raised illegally. As for the broken McGuinty promises--they are the direct result of what Harris left them with.

Historically we got the right to vote privately because of the Liberals--Conservatives (along with the podium drunk--thats Defienbaker) wanted to continue open ballet. Basically, if you wanted to keep your job, then you would have to vote on what your boss told you to.

SHAME ON YOU FOR SUPPORTING THE CANADIAN SKULLS!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz Trudeau--aka the power of the purse--was around he got us out of 2 recessions and our debt was only 11 billion.

You are painfully confused.

Trudeau and his "multicultural" pissing of cash is why we even have a massive debt to begin with.

Don't get me wrong - I believe 100% in multiculturalism - but unfortunately it was an expensive liberal experiment that didn't work (except for spending huge amounts of cash at the tax payer's expense).

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz SHAME ON YOU FOR SUPPORTING THE CANADIAN SKULLS!!!!

You are a sensationalist socialist. There is no point on even discussing this with you.

Christ - I'm glad you're not running the gov't. It'd be perpetually in the red.

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz LETS NOT FORGET THE INCREDIBLE RAISES

I think that MPs, MLAs and MPPs are still horribly underpaid.

Going to work in public office shouldn't be some "charity" exercise.

Maybe if we paid these people more we'd attract some better talent. Why would a lawyer making $500k, a doctor making $300k, a scientist or academic making $250k leave their jobs to go into politics?

It's more like anybody in the right mind wouldn't go into politics

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker You are painfully confused. Trudeau and his "multicultural" pissing of cash is why we even have a massive debt to begin with. Don't get me wrong - I believe 100% in multiculturalism - but unfortunately it was an expensive liberal experiment that didn't work (except for spending huge amounts of cash at the tax payer's expense).

Look I didn't post because I get some kick out of pissing people off, but what I write is based on facts and not media hype. Perhaps it would be best for you to read "Canadian Politics and Goverment by W.L White/R.H. Wagenberg/R.C. Nelson" and if you took some History, Legal and Political Science courses in University, you could discover that I am basing things on fact.

The multicultural spending was not as significant as you make it out to be, and the surplus was used for it. The experiment would have worked, only the Tories decided to neglect and sabotage it when they came into office.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker You are a sensationalist socialist. There is no point on even discussing this with you. Christ - I'm glad you're not running the gov't. It'd be perpetually in the red.

So now that you've called me a name, does that make you feel better? Basically, the reason you don't want to discuss this is because your afraid that I may hold some valid arguments. And you've totally sidestepped the whole Mulroney responsibility.
Look I'll agree that by calling the Tories--skulls may be harsh. But I was trying to get the point across that it's not just the Liberals. The Tories have their hands just as dirty--only they hide it better because they've had more practice.

I'm not saying I liked what Chretien did in office and truthfully I would have preferred someone else. I mean even Trudeau's Memoir practically called Chretien a lilly livered woos with no balls. And yes Chretien did make mistakes, only not as severe as Joe Clark (Tory) who lost the vote of confidence.

And factually it was, Diefenbaker(T), Person (L), Trudeau (L), Joe Clark (T), Trudeau (L) again. Historically he did get us out of 2 recessions. http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/a....asp?Language=E

You cannot negate that Mulroney sold out Canada by instilling privatization (Selling Air Can--now in bankruptcy) and passing the GST. If you just took the time to do your history homework you would know his family had vested interest with the Americans when these deals happened. How could you think that being in Politics is a charity when corruption like this is so flagrant. And then Mulroney sues us for investigating him. Again the taxpayer had to cough up for him.

FYI, it is people like me who want a better & responsible government. And my point to all of this is that keeping a Liberals value is better than being controlled by a government that disrespects the voice of the people that elected them.
Besides, you don't go into politics for the income, you go because of the fringe tax benefits and pension plan.

Please don't let yourself be swayed by the propaganda, and don't think that I'm your mortal enemy because I want to clarify the misinformation.

First off...anybody who believes that Walkerton was Harris' fault probably also blames Harris for snowstorms and tornados. The only person at fault for that was the lazy fat drunken SOB who routinely fudged the sample results and then failed to notify residents when the water was dirty.

Also, How did Harris violate your human rights? You never eleborated there.

Closed Hospitals and Schools? on one hand yes he did. But i look around to the brand new wings of hospitals and 1000's of new beds that opened as well. York County (newmarket) York Central (Richmond Hill) and North York General are 2 huge examples that i can think of just in my area.

407? yes you are right i didnt agree with that.

As for conservatives vs liberals? My rant wasnt about that. I dont care who you vote for as long as it isnt the liberals because this time around its the liberals who have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They have not been good for canada. They have outright stolen from us, lied to us and wasted out money.

The conservatives may turn out to be not much better. But thats a chance im willing to take. My point is that i would rather vote for someone who MAY lie and steal than someone who already has a proven track record of doing so.

My own personal political views? Well honestly im a socially liberal conservative spender.... in other words I am all for doing whatever it is you want to do in life as long as it doesnt harm others and as long as you dont make me pay for it (this is what the liberals are SUPPOSED TO BE but arent)

Time to start a new party!

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz FYI, it is people like me who want a better & responsible government. And my point to all of this is that keeping a Liberals value is better than being controlled by a government that disrespects the voice of the people that elected them. Besides, you don't go into politics for the income, you go because of the fringe tax benefits and pension plan.

I guess Liberal values for better and responsible government includes 130 million dollar Adscam corruption? Lying about the GST? backstabbing your former deputy prime minister in a riding election? "Losing" $1 Billion Dollars in the human resources dept? Lying about conflict of interest in the Grand Mere fiasco and then using your power to suppress the subsequent investigation? $2 billion for a useless gun registry that was supposed to cost $20 million? (i would have used the $2 billion for more police and better community services designed to steer kids away from crime) or better yet, to fight the debt.

If these are Liberal values you can keep them

PS i havnt even touched on the current provincial Liberal Mcguinty disaster that is unfolding....

Re: What's with this stupid food tax?

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess http://www.nomealtax.ca/ They want to start taxing food that is under 4 dollars if you buy it at school, cafeteria, hospital or restaurant. So if you buy a donut and a coffee at Timmie's you will get charged another 8 percent on top of everything else.

i AM SO PISSED. GOVERNMENT CANT EVEN USE THE TAXES PROPERLY, AND NOW THEY WANT TO ADD MORE TAXES?!? What about the people who don't earn much money, and spend it mostly on food, and now shove this in their face ....

Taxes are very high over here in Ontario anyway. It hurts so much everytime I hear or read about how people in charge of using the taxpayer money abuse the system! Bullsh--t.

From what I read in the paper today, this food tax is apperently a re-issuing of a tax exeption for cheap food. I don't know about any of you guys but I'm sure I pay the full 15% already for everything. What they say is that we are supposed to be only paying 7% and this 8% is just to bring it back to normal. For a bagel that cost 2 bucks I already pay 30 cents tax so now I'm going to have to pay 46 cents? It just doesn't make any sense.

Should I be raising a stink at the bagel shop and tell them that they are not supposed to yet charge me 15% but only 7%?

At the grocery store you don't pay tax on meat or produce. Can they charge you tax on an apple in the convenience store when they don't have to pay that tax to the government.

I'm just getting the feeling that I'm getting screwed.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 First off...anybody who believes that Walkerton was Harris' fault probably also blames Harris for snowstorms and tornados. The only person at fault for that was the lazy fat drunken SOB who routinely fudged the sample results and then failed to notify residents when the water was dirty. Also, How did Harris violate your human rights? You never eleborated there. Closed Hospitals and Schools? on one hand yes he did. But i look around to the brand new wings of hospitals and 1000's of new beds that opened as well. York County (newmarket) York Central (Richmond Hill) and North York General are 2 huge examples that i can think of just in my area. ...As for conservatives vs liberals? My rant wasnt about that. I dont care who you vote for as long as it isnt the liberals because this time around its the liberals who have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They have not been good for canada. They have outright stolen from us, lied to us and wasted out money. The conservatives may turn out to be not much better. But thats a chance im willing to take. My point is that i would rather vote for someone who MAY lie and steal than someone who already has a proven track record of doing so. My own personal political views.... in other words I am all for doing whatever it is you want to do in life as long as it doesnt harm others and as long as you dont make me pay for it (this is what the liberals are SUPPOSED TO BE but arent) Time to start a new party!

The violation of human rights was a generalization based on the number of lives that were lost as a result of his common sense practice. I know I could elaborate on it in detail but it would take several days to finish it--and frankly I don't have the time right now.

The new hospitals and private beds were done privately with no financial backing by the government. That is the fact.

Yes the Liberals got caught in the cookie jar. But the damage done by the Tories is much greater than what the Liberals did. I'll bet you didn't know that when the Tories were in power, a multi-million dollar computer got up and walked out of a military base. When it was brought up in Parliament, it was hushed for the sake of National Security. And those illegal brain washing experiments on Canadians by an American Doctor were given the seal of approval by the Tories and also hushed for the sake of National Security. BTW 500 randomly selected Canadians were experimented on, and at last count, less than 200 survived.

If you don't want to vote for someone that has a proven track record for lying, stealing and harming others--then I guess you shouldn't vote for the Tories, because they are the first to do all of this. Only they, are uncrupulous enough to use the RCMP or CSIS to keep things quiet for the sake of their National pocket Security.

Maybe it is time to start a new party

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I guess Liberal values for better and responsible government includes 130 million dollar Adscam corruption? Lying about the GST? backstabbing your former deputy prime minister in a riding election? "Losing" $1 Billion Dollars in the human resources dept? Lying about conflict of interest in the Grand Mere fiasco and then using your power to suppress the subsequent investigation? $2 billion for a useless gun registry that was supposed to cost $20 million? (i would have used the $2 billion for more police and better community services designed to steer kids away from crime) or better yet, to fight the debt. If these are Liberal values you can keep them PS i havnt even touched on the current provincial Liberal Mcguinty disaster that is unfolding....

You see...this is the problem--Media Hype.
Please take the time to do the Historical reading and open your eyes, because it is not the first time the things you've mentioned has happened.

How about I end this by saying "Give Peace a Chance" (I mean between you and I).

Meanwhile we don't go into politics, it's not like what we say even matters.
Believe me when I say that my having campaigned for both the Tories and the Liberals, has tought me that the Liberals are not as devious.

Re: Re: What's with this stupid food tax?

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker It is supposed to be a "fat tax" designed to recover some of the health care costs as a result of people pounding back Big Mac's all day long. The problem is - it doesn't tax just unhealthy food. You buy an apple or banana on your lunch - you gotta pay tax. You buy a salad - you pay tax. This is why I would lever vote for the provincial liberal party - their intentions seem to be good - but they generally f**k things up in the details. ----- Plus - doesn't anybody remember the promise "we will not raise taxes for the people of ontario"??? Christ - I already pay 50% tax (including income, gst and pst) and now I gotta pay more? Just because they don't increase my income tax - doesn't mean they aren't increasing taxes. IMO there should be outrage with this type of activity.

The problem with the liberal party is that everyone is willing to believe the lies they tell. At least the conservatives tell you you're going to get fucked. Not say how they won't do things and then immediately make excuses for doing them, when they suddenly realize they have no money. Like wtf, they didn't know they didn't have the money to start with?

Re: Re: Re: What's with this stupid food tax?

quote:

Originally posted by PartyHarlequin The problem with the liberal party is that everyone is willing to believe the lies they tell. At least the conservatives tell you you're going to get fucked. Not say how they won't do things and then immediately make excuses for doing them, when they suddenly realize they have no money. Like wtf, they didn't know they didn't have the money to start with?

one is not more honorouble when before he stabs you in the back calls out that he is stabbing you in the back. Conservatives are just as shady by hiding the massive debt for so long. In fact in my eyes its much worse then anything the Liberals have done so far.

I want to start a new grassroots party

basically it will be for the following items:

Health care reform (im all for a private-public partnership) and it has worked very well in places like europe. Better health care, more bang for your buck, less expensive and less waste and it still protects the poor people. There are several successful examples globally where this has been ultra successful.

Immigration reform - Immigration is a good thing but not too much at the same time. We should also make it easier for immigrants to use the skills that got them accepted here in the first place. Why should qualified doctors be driving taxicabs when we have a doctor shortage?

Relaxing over regulation: feeling down and out because you cant go see the benson and hedges symphony of fire? No more Goldclub? Cant watch Direct TV? You cant enjoy your favourite beer on a warm sunday afternoon at the beach? My party would end all that. Freedom to all and deal with those who abuse it instead of assuming that everyone is a criminal from the getgo (as we do now)... I am firm beleiver in letting adults make adult decisions.

Debt - I would use any excess money and money saved on cutting waste and corruption on lowering the debt. Once this is gone we can afford to have the luxuries that we feel we deserve without the need to runa deficit.

Taxes- Id either hold the line on taxes or if necissary id raise them slightly to pay off the debt. Hopefully by the time i was done wielding the axe against special interests however, the need for a tax hike wouldnt need to exist. Once the debt was paid off.. TAX CUTS FOR ALL!

Photo Radar - No way! It causes more danger than it prevents. remember how everyone just sped along happily and then slammed on the brakes everytime they saw something on the side of the road? It is what it is. A cash grab and nothing more. If i had to raise revenue, id do it more openly and honestly.

Cities - definately need revitilization, But city council wouldnt get a red cent from me until they cleaned up their own house. City council cries poor yet they are ready to spend $250,000 on worldwide travel junkets for councillors and the mayor. Not to mention arts grants etc.

Gay rights - Im not gay but it doesnt mean you aren't. Why shouldnt Gay people have the same rights straight people? One concession i would give though is calling marriage a civil union (at least it would shut up most of the religious nuts) After all, democracy is about comprimise.

Doofus McGigglenuts (our Premier) has caved! The tax will be scrapped!

CONSERVATIVES UNITE! WE WIN!

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