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-- American interrogators torture Iraqi prisoners
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quote:

Originally posted by razmataz As disgusting as those pictures were, they were not quite as surprising. After all, a good number of these soldiers are redneck dropouts from the back-asses of nowhewere in the midwestern U.S. and the U.K. They have probably even served some time themselves.

Kind of like the good old boys of the Canadian Airborne Regiment?

quote:

I think the larger picture here is being missed when we are trying to define "torture" here (and yes, I do believe this is torture). The larger picture is that not only is this likely a widespread issue, but it was being encouraged by military intelligence and the C.I.A. That in itself is a bombshell to our gov't., and we simply cannot try to hide and cover this up. The chain must be followed no matter how high it goes:

All perpetrators should be fully investigated and punished. I still think it's important to note that this story only came to light at the behest of an army investigation of the incidents. Therefore while the practice may have been widespread at this particular prison, it is not standard operating procedure for the army as a whole.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider All perpetrators should be fully investigated and punished. I still think it's important to note that this story only came to light at the behest of an army investigation of the incidents. Therefore while the practice may have been widespread at this particular prison, it is not standard operating procedure for the army as a whole.

Oh, of course I wouldn't think this to be standard procedure. But the possibility of this being widespread has some damning implications, and I sincerely hope for our credibility sake that we conduct a thorough and honest investigation.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Kind of like the good old boys of the Canadian Airborne Regiment?

err... i am not canadian, but sure, whatever, like them too...

Torture defined by dictionary.com

So yes, this is mental torture and is disgusting.

if shoving a broom stick up someones ass isnt torture than i think those people are, well....

fukc that ...
kill them ( terroristes )

Allright, I know I've spammed the site, but this needs addressing.
The tortuing of Iraqi prisoners, which amounts to mainly humiliation, is killing our credibility worldwide. I wish it would go away, but it won't. Doubt if reprimands will solve anything when courts-martials should be doled out. Can't believe we had a female one star in charge of the debacle either. Maybe that shows that promoting based on equality is not necessarily a good thing in the Army. The bitch obviously couldn't run a civilian prison in the states.
This caught us blindsided when we should've been wearing out the insurrection in Fajulah and other places. More to follow as we near the June handover, so hopefully the prisoner treatment will pass and we can get back to discriminately killing the bad guys.


[[[smoke]]]

I find it rather low and degrading ... The USA seems to be worried about it just because it's been showned to the public. I like to imagine what they are doing when nobody's looking..

quote:

Originally posted by N|te-L|fe The USA seems to be worried about it just because it's been showned to the public. I like to imagine what they are doing when nobody's looking..

Ummmm that's why the army investigation into the issue was started in January and that's why the soldiers were brought up on criminal charges in March? Wow, I'm surprised the army has such remarkable forsight.

bush to apologize for the torture of prisoners in two arabic tv networks. two (to my understanding) a bit pro US networks (not al jazeera =/), but anyway i like that he do it...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story...1209903,00.html

now i will just wait until he apologize for the whole iraq thing

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew now i will just wait until he apologize for the whole iraq thing

Not until he's done searching for the WMDs, behind the furniture in the oval office

quote:

Originally posted by biodigit Not until he's done searching for the WMDs, behind the furniture in the oval office

Just read Bush's speech. Fairly well done with one small tiny problem - a very pathetic attempt at an apology. In fact, there was none whatsoever.

Now I know Bush probably shouldn't feel compelled to show his own personal responsibility in this whole matter, nor am I going to argue that he is directly responsible (though allowing private contractors to do so much military work like translation and interrogation should have never been allowed, thus he might be somewhat indirectly responsible). So it is understandable that Bush shouldn't apologize personally. But it didn't even seem like he apologized for sympathetic reasons for the atrocities done on these prisoners, and I found that disturbing.

One other thing - unfortunately this does look like the tip of the iceberg. I pointed out that military intelligence and the CIA likely encouraged such interrogations is pretty damning. Well I think another damning issue is surfacing, and that is the private contractors taking over military actions. Specifically, the translation and esp. interrogation of Iraqi prisoners.

The problem with this privatization issue is that it is somewhat difficult to prosecute these contractors. They are not in the military, so the jurisdiction of our military cannot touch them. If they are US citizens, we have international policies set up since our invasion of Panama and arrest of Noriega to arrest and prosecute U.S. citizens who break international laws here in the U.S. However, some of these contractors are NOT U.S. citizens, and they are either subject to whatever laws are in their country and/or subject to disciplinary action of their hired companies. Unfortunately, some companies such as Titan have taken very little, if any, disciplinary action at this time, even with U.S. citizens (an excerpt):

quote:

Contractors Implicated in Prison Abuse Remain on the Job By JOEL BRINKLEY and JAMES GLANZ NEW YORK TIMES Published: May 4, 2004 WASHINGTON, May 3 � More than two months after a classified Army report found that two contract workers were implicated in the abuse of Iraqis at a prison outside Baghdad, the companies that employ them say that they have heard nothing from the Pentagon, and that they have not removed any employees from Iraq. For one of the employees, the Army report recommended "termination of employment" and revocation of his security clearance. For the other, it urged an official reprimand and review of his security clearance. But J. P. London, chief executive of CACI, one of the companies involved, said in an interview on Monday that "we have not received any information or direction from the client regarding our work in country � no charges, no communications, no citations, no calls to appear at the Pentagon." Ralph Williams, vice president for communications for Titan, the other company, also said Monday that the company has heard nothing, and that none of Titan's workers have been recalled. Military spokesmen in Washington and Baghdad said Monday evening that they had no information on whether the workers were still on the job or why the report had not been conveyed to the companies...... http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/04/i...ast/04CONT.html

Although this seems like a strange communication (or stonewalling) issue from the Pentagon, it highlights the problems with disciplinary action on these private contract workers.

I certainly hope for our sake that proper disciplinary action and prosecution is taken on these individuals. Our credibility and image is being splattered all over the Arab networks.

Here's the full 53 page army report:


Now edited:

Taguba Report - Click Me You Clowns. But only if you are American ... IMPORTANT!!!

ohh fuck bush, i thought for once he did something good, but of course not. no he is not personally responisble for those actions, BUT indirectly he is. it was american troops who did it, he is the one who should really condemn it to show where he stands. he should apologize like never before. also he should take all those people who was involved in any way whatsoever in this matter and bring them to trial. better to take away to many from the army, than to perhaps leave someone who might have something to do with it. it would also show that US takes a stand against this.

really hope that this is not just the tip of the iceberg.. or perhaps if bush had ordered such a thing.. that could have him fired out of capital hill

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Here's the full 53 page army report: Taguba Report Click Me You Clowns

occrider, you better watch out. cia may be after you, it says: "secret/no foreign dissemination", you just spread it over the internet.



btw, thanks for the link

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew occrider, you better watch out. cia may be after you, it says: "secret/no foreign dissemination", you just spread it over the internet. btw, thanks for the link

Oops ... well if I disappear you know what happened to me. Hmmmm ok only Americans are allowed to click on the link.

Glancing through the report, the only abuse I approve of is them writing "I am a rapist" on the leg of a detainee who raped a 15 year old ... blah.

Well, Bush sort of apologizes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3688645.stm

Rummy is taking the heat:

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/m...main/index.html

And fake photos are the latest rage (NSFW banners):

http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primar...ontent_ID=82983

seriously, what's his fucking problem? cannot apologise himself?

quote:

"The president is sorry for what occurred and the pain that it has caused," Mr Bush's spokesman Scott McClellan said afterwards. Asked why Mr Bush himself had not apologised, he added: "I'm saying it now for him."

see, he doesn't take clear stand against this. unbelievable imo. makes me believe that there is more to this than we know right now.

quote:

Arabs who watched Mr Bush's interview across the Middle East - many of them having to rely only on a summary in Arabic provided by al-Arabiya - told correspondents they were unconvinced by Mr Bush's position.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew Arabs who watched Mr Bush's interview across the Middle East - many of them having to rely only on a summary in Arabic provided by al-Arabiya - told correspondents they were unconvinced by Mr Bush's position.

Not to be too skeptical, but somehow I doubt that the Arab world would have been convinced of anything Bush said, even if he would have flat out apologized and took full responsibility (which I don't think he should have, but just for argument sake).

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Not to be too skeptical, but somehow I doubt that the Arab world would have been convinced of anything Bush said, even if he would have flat out apologized and took full responsibility (which I don't think he should have, but just for argument sake).

i guess in a way you are right. but i still think they might have felt somewhat better if he should have apologized.

bad example, but if for example saddam should appologize like a little pig for evertyhing bad he has done to the iraqi/american people, he would probably gain some more respect.

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