TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
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-- Something thats bothering me
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quote:

Originally posted by kewlness I think a very reasonable restriction could be like you are only allowed to post the same amount of threads in this section of the forum as the amount of replies you've had in this forum... Because of course we have non-producers who post feedback here as well... I just grow sick of those who want to take from the community but not give...

Nice but hard (impossible) to implement. Might go a bit too far..?

Re: Something thats bothering me

quote:

Originally posted by EternalMusic OK From my point of view - this forum is about people who wants to get feedbacks on their tracks and to show the crowd what we are made of . Thats why i think each one should reply and write feedbacks on other artists productions and respectivly posting their own. The main reason i decided to open this thread is because i've come to see more and more artits posting constantly their work here BUT not giving something back to the others, by listening and helping younger producers or whatever. Any solutions? Cause this is abit sad you know... I hope i was clear enough, and i hope you understand what im talking about. Peace.

I think that with the way I feel about this I would rather recieve no feedback than bad feedback.9 times out of ten the people who post bad feedback are no better themselves.I also think that competition is silly so I only want to recieve feedback as far as which one of MY tunes people like more or less than other tunes of mine.Not being compred to some other guy who has 1000's of dollars in equipment and about 5 to ten years more expierience.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay M Yeh you're right at that point. Partly The criticism might indeed be a bit demotivating BUT that's why it should be constructive. Newbies to production must be pointed what is wrong, so they can improve it and HEAR for themselves what's good and what's not. And if they can't handle the criticism, they should not post. Of course you must be careful what you say in your comments because a lot of personal thoughts arise when e.g. a melody is reviewed. Hence the use of "IMO"... I should stop typing now.

and any newbie to this kind of thing is not going to learn anything from a post here.I never learned from feedback.I learn from spending 3 to 6 hours a day makin music.With newbies the only useful feedback would probably just confuse the hell out of them or dishearten them.I say if you like a track tell someone so they know what they are doing right.If you don't like it move on and go to then next.
I think its a bad idea to make people have to put in feedback just to put thier tunes up.I think all this will do is create a backlash of posts that don't really mean anything.Empty threads where people complain or give false praise.

quote:

Originally posted by dj prometheus and any newbie to this kind of thing is not going to learn anything from a post here.I never learned from feedback.I learn from spending 3 to 6 hours a day makin music.With newbies the only useful feedback would probably just confuse the hell out of them or dishearten them.I say if you like a track tell someone so they know what they are doing right.If you don't like it move on and go to then next. I think its a bad idea to make people have to put in feedback just to put thier tunes up.I think all this will do is create a backlash of posts that don't really mean anything.Empty threads where people complain or give false praise.

That's not true. Well good to know that you can't take criticism by means of constructive feedback. It's not about kicking against a track, it's pointing the things that need improvement, which is not bad feedback. Of course, a "Nice work!" is always good to hear, but post something constructive along, so they just got a direction pointer to their next level of making music. Then it's up to the producer to experiment and/or implement what they've read.

Re: Re: Something thats bothering me

quote:

Originally posted by dj prometheus 9 times out of ten the people who post bad feedback are no better themselves

Picking up on this point mate, I don't think that's a fair comment, or all that relevant to be fair. I get very verbose on my reviews of people's stuff and I would never claim to know more or less than others, and I don't necessarily only review someone's track who I feel to not be "at my level". The bonus of reviewing is that someone else who hasn't been cloistered in their bedroom listening to the same track for a week can come to it with fresh ears and pick stuff out immediately that you may miss. It's the whole get someone else to master your stuff deal.

Also, just because someone may not produce doesn't mean they don't listen to trance, in some ways that makes their criticisms all the more valuable as they aren't coloured by software and the whole process and where they are in the whole production scheme of things.

Re: Re: Re: Something thats bothering me

quote:

Originally posted by BassAngel Picking up on this point mate, I don't think that's a fair comment, or all that relevant to be fair. I get very verbose on my reviews of people's stuff and I would never claim to know more or less than others, and I don't necessarily only review someone's track who I feel to not be "at my level". The bonus of reviewing is that someone else who hasn't been cloistered in their bedroom listening to the same track for a week can come to it with fresh ears and pick stuff out immediately that you may miss. It's the whole get someone else to master your stuff deal. Also, just because someone may not produce doesn't mean they don't listen to trance, in some ways that makes their criticisms all the more valuable as they aren't coloured by software and the whole process and where they are in the whole production scheme of things.

Correct.

It's the reviews that hold your feet on the ground. You don't want to believe in a track that isn't da bomb because of things you can't hear at once, but others do.

Since I gave more criticism on tracks here, i got more constructive feedback. That means a lot to me. Bless my reviewers

Re: Re: Something thats bothering me

quote:

Originally posted by dj prometheus I think that with the way I feel about this I would rather recieve no feedback than bad feedback.9 times out of ten the people who post bad feedback are no better themselves.I also think that competition is silly so I only want to recieve feedback as far as which one of MY tunes people like more or less than other tunes of mine.Not being compred to some other guy who has 1000's of dollars in equipment and about 5 to ten years more expierience.

The way I see it, comparing your tunes to the best can only improve your own skills. If you're getting your tunes compared to someone with thousands of dollars in equipment and years of experience, isn't that a good thing? Doesn't that mean that you could probably learn something from that person's productions? I mean that person probably knows what to do, and in comparing your track to that person's track, you can see what you should do and what you shouldn't do.

you guys all have fabulous points but I still believe that if there is a problem with one of my tracks I already know it.I might not know how to fix it but I usually ask.Almost every one of my posts on this forum is me askin how to make the changes I feel I need.What im trying to say is as I make music for myself I want my track to sound good to me.If there is a problem I will ask about it.I guess what I consider bad feedback and constructive criticizm are different.Here are the following rules I believe validates somethin as constructive criticizm.

1)you gotta say one thing you like about the tune.Otherwise I will ignore you and chalk it up as that person just doesn't like my style.

2)you have to be descripive as possible as to what you think would make it better.

3)you don't compare the tune to any other persons.Competition does not belong in the world of artists as every artist is unique and I think it rather unfair to say who is better than who when you are looking at two different people's works.

also due to the fact that we all use different programs things get extremely hard to explain to others.Like for instance telling someone they need to use a compressor but not giving them the slightest idea of how to work one for example.I have learned a little from my posts but the majority of my learning is done on by doing it and practising.
With software incompatibility issues it just gets too complicated sometimes.Now if we were all on the same program it would be different.

quote:

Originally posted by dj prometheus 3)you don't compare the tune to any other persons.Competition does not belong in the world of artists as every artist is unique and I think it rather unfair to say who is better than who when you are looking at two different people's works. also due to the fact that we all use different programs things get extremely hard to explain to others.Like for instance telling someone they need to use a compressor but not giving them the slightest idea of how to work one for example.I have learned a little from my posts but the majority of my learning is done on by doing it and practising. With software incompatibility issues it just gets too complicated sometimes.Now if we were all on the same program it would be different.

I don't see someone comparing a track to someone else's track as competition, it's just a reference point.

Sure there are different mediums we all use, but they're all fundamentally the same. I see this forum as more of a review section, not a review + detailed analysis on how to work a certain synth or effect unit section. I think it's implied that the artist already knows how to work such a device if it's mentioned, or is willing to take the time to search for basic instructions on his or her own. The other production forum has answers to lots of those technical questions. If you don't know how to do something that's been suggested, chances are it's been answered already in the Production Studio forum.

So, to sum up, I see this forum as existing mainly for feedback and promotion, and the other production forum is used mainly for Q&A on the technical aspects of music and music technology.

Re: Re: Something thats bothering me

Wow, I couldn't have said it any better.

quote:

Originally posted by Spin Doctor It's a valid point, and I do agree that there is a high ammount of people who just post tunes but don't review any. However, I can see the non-reviewers point of view too. It seems that people only really tend to get masses of feedback when they are one of the "big hitters" of the production forum. Why post feedback to others tunes when you only get one or two replies at most for your own efforts? Just because they aren't established as one of the forum talents, or are less skilled at production, doesn't mean they don't deserve feedback any less. Plus, there are the people who only review thier friends productions, or will only review positivly peoples tunes in order to score brownie points. Also there are other non "political" factors too. For example, I only tend to post comments if I have something constructive to say. If I really don't like a tune at all, or there are pages worth of pats on the back, what's the point in posting any more about it? Things need to be worked on from both ends to resolve this.

Ohohoh!!

..''sounds like Santa'' ..I wish he could be here, hehe, or an angel maybe. To bring some light over this conversation. It feels like it's negative energy around this conversation!


Why is it so hard to tell something about a song ??
Ofcourse there should be some rules! About telling anything about themselves or their produktion, before they upload something!
But othervise??


Share love instead of being so negative!

It's good to know that 70% doing this for fun

Hmm...there are some VERY talented producers on this board, BUT not all of them are very 'expressive' with words.

I mean, some people aren't very good with expressing themselves, and how they feel. I remember talking to this one awesome producer and he's like "I don't know how the hell you could critique a track like that". Well, I just love giving feedback to artists, and letting them know what mistakes their made, or how great their song really is!

now what about ppl like me who dont produce ( well i tried , and it came out "different") i cant really give constructive feedback since i dont know most of the things u all do ,but i do say if i like a track or not!

quote:

Originally posted by TrAnCeAkI now what about ppl like me who dont produce ( well i tried , and it came out "different") i cant really give constructive feedback since i dont know most of the things u all do ,but i do say if i like a track or not!

You're welcome! I want guys like you to download my music, that's the promotion part

It's about the people who just take reviews and don't return them.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay M You're welcome! I want guys like you to download my music, that's the promotion part It's about the people who just take reviews and don't return them.

Totally agree with you.

Yea me too. Anyway there are like 100 new members posting in the amature section and dont give a f*** about the forum itself . " Hi review my latest ubertrack ". Should we put some rules or something? Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by EternalMusic Yea me too. Anyway there are like 100 new members posting in the amature section and dont give a f*** about the forum itself . " Hi review my latest ubertrack ". Should we put some rules or something? Just a thought.

True, but forcing that kind of rules would be hard.
There will always be people like who just take and do not give back.
But one thing to do is not to give feedback to people whose first post is their first uber track.

Just my morning thoughts.

In my opinion, strict rules are not really an option. It's too hard to implement them and check if nobody overrides them. It's easier to create habbits, unwritten rules for this forum.

It's quite simple actually. Most of us return to this forum and reply once in a while, so most of the names around here at least look familiar. So new threads by these names are free for you to review If you're not sure, just check the profile of the topic starter and see the number of posts. The newbies are mostly under 10 posts. Don't review their music, that's all. If everybody would do this, the problem is solved, cause newbies will eventually find out that they don't get reviewed for nothing...

I think this whole issue is too complex to effectively enforce. Ideally, in an utopian amateur producers forum you would have each member contributing and dedicated to help each other but of course that is way of the question.

I also think the problem may not be with the newbies that don't contribute, but with those who post as well. As Jay M said, you can simply don't review the tracks of someone who doesn't seek to contribute to this community.

Another point though, I would like to bring up is that people who post good helpful reviews are doing people a favour. Isn't it wrong to stop someone from being a good guy and reviewing a track?

My take on this is just leave it as is... the newbs that are less known on these forums will naturally get less response until they start contributing more to these forums and make a name for themselves by then hopefully more people will respond to the tracks that they post.

It's tough but there's not much can be done. It's hard to keep up on 56k though I've only posted one tune but I made a promise to myself to try and review at least as many tunes as replies I recieved.

I think too that people should be more encouraged to leave negative feedback rather than none at all. I've downloaded quite a few tunes in the past but on some I didn't want to leave negative feedback. Since posting my own though I appreciate how valuable (constructive) negative feedback can be.

Anyway: my thoughts.

well, i've seen track review forums turn into nice little idea-communes before, which is cool...but especially compared to those forums...

this place is really, really big.

lots more people coming and going here. i turned away from this place when i first found it, cause it's just so hard to keep up on this stuff.

i definitely understand what you guys mean, and i generally agree that it's a shame that it's so hard to get reviews...but i just think of it as taking a gamble when i post a track.

one thing i always try to do whenever i check out this forum is review all the tracks that have gotten no replies at all (at least, on the first couple or so pages)

When I first signed on as a TA'er I NEVER came to the amateur music producers forum.
Not sure why exactly... but after shedding my n00b status and experimenting myself in the production field, I saw the value of the amateur forum.
Obviously, I knew that as a n00b I had no right to slam down a tune and say "HEY!LISTEN TO THIS"
I've come to the point where I can't wait to finish dinner in the evening and listen to what my peers have come up with! I enjoy reviewing the songs here and although you've only seen me here in the last 2-3 months, my input on YOUR songs definitely got me input on MY song. SO thanks for making this work...
IT DOES WORK BTW!
And you are mostly right...everyone here can spot a n00b who's only here to self-indulge! NEVER SEEN THAT NAME BEFORE!!
Here it is...

RESPECT the forum and your peers here, and you get the same. If someone critiques my song and offers one of their own works...I'll always do the same.

RESPECT. Thanks TAs!

I'm a noob and I have posted three tracks. I have received feedback and pointers to what I am doing wrong or what needs work. This I am grateful for.

But I dont feel I am proficient enough to write feedback on others tracks, so I dont, not yet anyway.

But it seems that a lot of you in this thread are slamming noobs and it maybe the reason given above that they dont give feedback.

If I dont like a track I wont post a reply like "I have listened to your track and all I can say is that you need to work on it.... " which I have had. This is not helpful feedback at all but if it means you get more feedback..... See my point.

I thought the point of this forum was to get feedback on new work, established or not. The reason I post here is that I feel you will know better than I where I am going wrong, so that I can improve and then offer feedback on others.

Just a noobs point of view.

I don't think it should so much be that one-time posters are ignored as much that pointless "OMFNRA, ur music is teh bestorz!!!!!1oen" type posts should be avoided. I think pointless ass-kissing really does little to help people improve. In that vein, ignoring people who may very well have potential also does very little to help them improve.

In the end, The decision to ignore one time posts is up to each individual, but what if one of those posts contains something really good? Those who ignore the post are kind of missing out.

quote:

Originally posted by conexion I'm a noob and I have posted three tracks. I have received feedback and pointers to what I am doing wrong or what needs work. This I am grateful for. But I dont feel I am proficient enough to write feedback on others tracks, so I dont, not yet anyway. But it seems that a lot of you in this thread are slamming noobs and it maybe the reason given above that they dont give feedback. If I dont like a track I wont post a reply like "I have listened to your track and all I can say is that you need to work on it.... " which I have had. This is not helpful feedback at all but if it means you get more feedback..... See my point. I thought the point of this forum was to get feedback on new work, established or not. The reason I post here is that I feel you will know better than I where I am going wrong, so that I can improve and then offer feedback on others. Just a noobs point of view.

Even if you dont know EXACTLY what to comment on you can always leave a general feedback or any other feeling you've got from the track - like " Its nice but i feel somethings is missing " or " the bass is weak " or something, your reply doesnt have to contain specific technical issuses. If the forum will get fluid with people like you then no one will even boder to post anything. This forum is a very special community, well , atleast i think so, and if you only take from the community without giving something in return then the whole amature section will become another shitty trashy producing forum.

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