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-- They should abolish last call in Ontario
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It's great in theory (I'd love it too!)...but Toronto (unfortunately) is different.

there are a LOT of people who just drink and they don't do drugs...and there are more than a few people who only stop drinking because they have no choice (ie. last call).

eliminating last call would be an *incredible* benefit for some bar and club owners...Guv would run well into Sunday afternoon, I'm sure, lol...but in Toronto, it would be a nightmare for police and bar staff would really have to monitor people (although maybe just until the novelty wears off). This is not Europe...too many people our city couldn't handle 24/7 booze.

i beg to differ.... everyone thought the topless law would see women running around naked 24/7 which did occur for about a month. But do we even hear about it or see it today? Nope... the novelty wore off fast. As for drinking all night? People who want to get drunk are going to get drunk. Whats the difference if they get drunk from 9pm to 2am or 1am to 5am?

Alcohol laws here smack of maternalism. Also, the more you demonize something, the more the general public is prone to abusing the forbidden fruit. Just look at how 21 year olds act in the states when they get drunk compared to the 21 year olds here who are USUALLY a lot more mature by then (the novelty wore off).

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Originally posted by boa-redux Imagine making noise bylaws based on the opinion of deaf people!!! Welcome to Ontario!!

Just a question off topic, do you represent Boa the club? Everytime you post I think of it being the expressed opinion of Boa. hahah I'm not joking either, you may want to change your name to a private one as this could result in some doodies.

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Originally posted by boa-redux liquor laws are not on the books because they make sense they are there because politicians are cowards who are not willing to do anything conceived as risky!!! Most people are in bed before midnite, and most people when consulted in opinion polls would say they they don't favor change because they don't see the need; hence the politicians who are vote sluts inaction on such issues. Essentially it is governing by opinion polls. Imagine making noise bylaws based on the opinion of deaf people!!! Welcome to Ontario!!

Amen to that! Too true, since the majority of the population is not at the bars and clubs post 2am, why are they the ones being asked whether or not we should be allowed to drink past 2am? The reason... it makes the most people happy and takes the least amount of effort on the gov't part. If they would only let us party in peace, and perhaps show people places like Boa so they could understand that there's nothing strange about partying till 10am! Long live the afterparty!

if politicians only had gonads....

i hate seperatists but at least gilles duceppe was at nightclubs in montreal last week courting the youth vote.

Id like to see them try that here...

As much as i like to crap on quebecois' hatred of english canada i have to admit that i respect them on so many other levels when it comes to how they conduct their society.

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Originally posted by halo20 Just a question off topic, do you represent Boa the club? Everytime you post I think of it being the expressed opinion of Boa. hahah I'm not joking either, you may want to change your name to a private one as this could result in some doodies.

I don't think clubs have opinions... They're really just sorta warehouselike buildings... Never heard to much mumbling and grumbling from warehouses...

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 i beg to differ.... everyone thought the topless law would see women running around naked 24/7 which did occur for about a month. But do we even hear about it or see it today? Nope... the novelty wore off fast. As for drinking all night? People who want to get drunk are going to get drunk. Whats the difference if they get drunk from 9pm to 2am or 1am to 5am? Alcohol laws here smack of maternalism. Also, the more you demonize something, the more the general public is prone to abusing the forbidden fruit. Just look at how 21 year olds act in the states when they get drunk compared to the 21 year olds here who are USUALLY a lot more mature by then (the novelty wore off).

not a good comparison, IMHO...I don't think that 99.9% of Toronto's women gave a moment's thought to actually going topless when that law passed. It was a law enacted on principle, ie. with regard to equality rights for women, based upon the loud voice of a very small number of people. Women have grown up taught that their breasts were something to be hidden, unlike men. I support the law (and not because I care to see women topless, lol).

The issue of extending or removing "last call" is nothing like that...it's not about equalizing anything for anyone. Would the novelty eventually wear off? Sure. But not very quickly and that transition period would be a *nightmare* in some cases.

I agree with the just of your 2nd paragraph...however, when you look at European countries, for example, the social and family structure is so much different. Kids there grow up with a different view of alcohol. It's not the "forbidden fruit" North American kids see it as being. That understanding/outlook can't instantly be manufactured here in teenagers and adults who've grown up thinking that booze is "naughty"...you take away last call, you will have a generation or two that won't deal with it well.

If last call is extended (and it should be) or removed altogether (not so sure about that one), there has to be some serious peripheral planning...it can't just be left to bar and club owners to police people and deal with the fallout.

What fallout? whats the difference whether i have a beer at 2am than rather than 4am?

What does time of night have to do with how i will behave exactly?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 What fallout? whats the difference whether i have a beer at 2am than rather than 4am? What does time of night have to do with how i will behave exactly?

nothing! exactly! you should see what happens on the streets in the UK after the pubs close at 11pm, especially cos everybody goes there right after work and gets pissed as quickly as possible just to fit in as many pints as possible in a matter of a few hours!

I dunno, my parents never really said no to alcohol and my brother and I never really abused it. Parents never cared if the liquor cabinet was raided on the weekend, or if the beer fridge was emptied at the cottage. They trusted us not to be retarded about it and neither of us really care about drinking at this point.

my personal experience is that in countries that have little or no alcohol laws, people seem to respect it more or simply dont care about it as much.

Many countries have no alcohol laws except that you have to be 18 and that you cant drive drunk and i didnt see drunks everywhere and the world coming to an end

say what you want but for me, an infrequent drinker, If there were no last call, i think i would be hospitalized every time i drink.

It should be extended a bit though

^^^ my point exactly

for every person that will simply show up at a club later and consume roughty the same # of drinks, there will be some clowns (not you, lol) who will still get there early and just keep on drinking until they can't walk...then they'll be on the street.

There are too many people here that can't handle that level of freedom...it's kinda sad...because that minority ruins it for the rest of us.

I love Montreal...Jazz Fest...city blocks of open drinking...no problems...few cops. Imagine Toronto if they shut down city blocks and allowed people to drink on the street...CARNAGE

CARNAGE?

I dont think so...

As for the clowns... the drunk clowns exist now at 1 and 2am so whats the diff?

Honestly the only reason this law exists is because its a relic of the orangeman protestant days gone by. Only 40 years ago they used to tie up the swings in Toronto parks on Sundays!! We are not a religious state anymore and as such its time to dismantle this relic law.

Nah.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 CARNAGE? I dont think so... As for the clowns... the drunk clowns exist now at 1 and 2am so whats the diff? Honestly the only reason this law exists is because its a relic of the orangeman protestant days gone by. Only 40 years ago they used to tie up the swings in Toronto parks on Sundays!! We are not a religious state anymore and as such its time to dismantle this relic law.

Unfortunately, people here never ceaze to amaze me in how stupid they are...I think there would be problems. Give those same drunk clowns a couple more hours to drink (or worse, unlimited) and I think it's safe to say that we'll need more cops on the street at night.

Can you even imagine what the corner of Richmond & Peter would look like at 5am with no last call? OMFG...*shudder to think*

So what you are saying is this. My idea is perfect for the rest of the world but for some reason the city of Toronto exclusively does not deserve this right?

Im struggling to understand where you are coming from. You even said that its a great thing to be able to walk around with your beer in Montreal. I think you need to give people in Toronto just a little bit more credit...

As for Peter and Richmond. Im thinking it would look the same at 5am as it does at 2am.

Carnage!!

Many had the same argument just a few years ago when last call was moved from 1am to 2am; and what happened? Nothing.
If you want to get a drink after 2am in the core there are a number of boozecans, what is the difference in making it legal and safe?
Idiots exist in every society, and police are there to deal with them, penalizing all of us for their actions seems Orwellian, but then again big brother does know best!!

quote:

Originally posted by disko-kandi don't complain. in england it's 11pm in the pubs! so on a weeknite you can't go anywhere after that - unless you're in london, not in a small town where eveything outside pubs shuts down at 6pm, ... or u just bribe the 'fruiterer' after 3am! hehehe at least in germany, france and switzerland etc. you can get alc 24/7 at any gas station.

yeah but then again in England u can also have beer with ur breakfast..

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Originally posted by dEsidEL yeah but then again in England u can also have beer with ur breakfast..

LOL!! yea you're right about that! same in bavaria (and other places in the EU, of course) where we call it Fruehschoppen!

give the peoples the choice, they (the majority) will make the right choices for themselves! ...do you see everyone in holland drinking absynth? (90% alc content, which is outlawed here! i just saw it here in the LCBO the other day, but it as 'only' about 60% or so...) pfff crazy!!!! no wonder van Goth cut his ear off! damm halucinations...hihi!

Re: Carnage!!

quote:

Originally posted by boa-redux Many had the same argument just a few years ago when last call was moved from 1am to 2am; and what happened? Nothing. If you want to get a drink after 2am in the core there are a number of boozecans, what is the difference in making it legal and safe? Idiots exist in every society, and police are there to deal with them, penalizing all of us for their actions seems Orwellian, but then again big brother does know best!!

True hehe, it's sad though that our own gov't and police agencies can't trust the general public to play safe. What I'm wondering though is whether this attitude will get better or degrade into something worse?

The problem inherent in our preventative solution to the late morning drunks is that it never allows us (the rest of us) even the chance to prove that we can handle our alcohol just as well at 6am as we can at 2am. So we can never reach the level of acceptance and maturity that they have in parts of europe because we'll never be given the chance (as long as middle classed, middle aged mothers are the most recognized [loudest and most belligerent] vote whenever issues of morality and social change are brought up). I wonder why these types of decisions are never really discussed with the demographic they most affect?

its getting worse...

In Canada the government exerts control over our lives more and more as evident with the banning of GoldClub Series, banning Direct Tv, etc which have all occurred in the last couple of years.

We live in a society that presumes everyone as stupid before proven guilty. Not to mention the litigious nightmare we haev become. Its unthinkable that a person can get drunk, drive and kill someone and then the homeowner or restaurant who provided the alocohol gets charged. The fault lies with the individual who drove drunk and thats it.

Until we change this kind of thinking our society will remain listless, passionless and boring.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 So what you are saying is this. My idea is perfect for the rest of the world but for some reason the city of Toronto exclusively does not deserve this right? Im struggling to understand where you are coming from. You even said that its a great thing to be able to walk around with your beer in Montreal. I think you need to give people in Toronto just a little bit more credit... As for Peter and Richmond. Im thinking it would look the same at 5am as it does at 2am.

I'm saying that it can't SUDDENLY be changed here. The rest of the world (or the parts that enjoy a later last call, or none at all) have people who have grown up with a different view on alcohol consumption.

I'm saying that too many people here are immature and won't handle it well. It can be done...we'll need much preparation for it.

And yes, attitude in Montreal is *very* different than Toronto...it's much better there, IMHO...more of a European attitude.

You guys are all thinking of our EDM scene here...keep in mind the fucktards at dance clubs and bars are not as well behaved

But again i ask... what does time of night have to do with behaviour?

whats the diff if everyone is drunk and on the street at 10 am or at 5am? Does a time clock suddenly go off in people's brains that says "BE EXTRA STUPID AT 5AM"???

I dont think so...

Think about this, people have the option of drinking from 10 am to 2am yet they dont get any drunker than if the law were 10pm to 2am. Sadly people have had this law all their life and many will now swear by the false illusion that it serves.

Not to mention it doesn't stop those with well stocked liquor cabinets, beer fridges and wine cellars from getting pissed whenever they please!

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