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-- O'Reilly vs. Moore
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quote:

Originally posted by xKaoSx I guess that's all Cheney is good for- taking messages eh?

Is that what he was doing while he was hiding out all that time?

In all seriousness--the Dems are calling for several reasons. Many of them are still just bitter about the 2000 election, many of them supported the war but have now flip-flopped as it served their party and their quest for power more than would supporting the views they initially had. A handful of them(like Zell Miller for instance) put partisan issues aside and realized there's a real global threat going on. It's an election year--there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on as well(on both sides).

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Is that what he was doing while he was hiding out all that time? In all seriousness--the Dems are calling for several reasons. Many of them are still just bitter about the 2000 election, many of them supported the war but have now flip-flopped as it served their party and their quest for power more than would supporting the views they initially had. A handful of them(like Zell Miller for instance) put partisan issues aside and realized there's a real global threat going on. It's an election year--there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on as well(on both sides).

True-
Unfortunately we really wont find out anything about anything till, what, June 2005?

And a small group of the rich and Ignorant who don't want to hear Facts. Which are:

- Osama is nowhere to be found.
- Bush is a liar.
- There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that means there is no way Iraq was an imminent threat to the US
- Did I mention bush is a liar?
- Iraq is not a safe haven for Al-Qaeda, if any people in America haven�t heard Iraqi insurgents have vowed to kill Al-Qaeda and Occupying forces these are Iraqi people Shiites and Sunni�s
- The body count in Iraq is 13,305
- SO not only has bush accounted for 9/11 but he�s also made up for the loss of American lives by killing more Iraqi's
- The world is a much more dangerous place for Americans
- American soldiers are defecting to Canada because they know the war is illegal
- UN rejected war
- Bush is a liar

I should also note that Al-Qaeda has a lot more support now than ever. The US didn�t kill Al-Qaeda they built it up. Now more orphans widows and widowers have developed sympathy for Al-Qaeda, their main source of recruits.

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic And a small group of the rich and Ignorant who don't want to hear Facts. Which are: - Osama is nowhere to be found. - Bush is a liar. - There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that means there is no way Iraq was an imminent threat to the US - Did I mention bush is a liar? - Iraq is not a safe haven for Al-Qaeda, if any people in America haven�t heard Iraqi insurgents have vowed to kill Al-Qaeda and Occupying forces these are Iraqi people Shiites and Sunni�s - The body count in Iraq is 13,305 - SO not only has bush accounted for 9/11 but he�s also made up for the loss of American lives by killing more Iraqi's - The world is a much more dangerous place for Americans - American soldiers are defecting to Canada because they know the war is illegal - UN rejected war - Bush is a liar I should also note that Al-Qaeda has a lot more support now than ever. The US didn�t kill Al-Qaeda they built it up. Now more orphans widows and widowers have developed sympathy for Al-Qaeda, their main source of recruits.

All that can be refuted with one comment.

Moore made a HollyWood movie with distortion of facts.

No?

quote:

Bin Laden Brother Disputes Moore Film Bin Laden Brother Disputes Moore Film 1 hour, 15 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo! PARIS - A half-brother of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) says he enjoyed most of Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," except for what he called "inaccuracies" about his family. AP Photo "It's a moving film," Yeslam Binladin, a Geneva-based tycoon and one of the al-Qaida leader's 54 siblings, said in an interview with the French magazine VSD. "I even laughed at times," said Binladin, adding, "but a lot less when he states errors or inaccuracies about my family, knowing perfectly well that he's deceiving the public." In the film, Moore says President Bush (news - web sites) tried to cover up his family's longtime business and personal ties to the family of Osama bin Laden and other prominent Saudis because many of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. One of his main points is that the U.S. administration helped 142 Saudis � including two dozen members of bin Laden's family � fly out of the United States two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, even though commercial air space was closed. "That's false and can be verified by anyone," said the Saudi-born Binladin, who intentionally spells his name differently from Osama, the prime suspect in the Sept. 11 attacks. "They benefited from no exceptional authorization to leave American territory." A recent 9/11 panel report states that the chartered flights took place starting Sept. 14, once airspace had reopened. Binladin, who has lived in Geneva for many years and has Swiss citizenship, told the magazine that his U.S.-based family members flew into Geneva on Sept. 20 before taking off again for Saudi Arabia. The movie also states that several family members attended a 2001 wedding of one of Osama bin Laden's sons in Afghanistan (news - web sites) � a claim Binladin says is exaggerated. "Nobody from my family was at this wedding in Afghanistan except for the mother of Osama," said Binladin. Yeslam and Osama are among the 54 sons and daughters of the late Saudi construction magnate Mohammed bin Laden and his 22 wives. Binladin, the founder of Geneva-based financial company Sico, said the last time he saw his younger half-brother was before Osama left Saudi Arabia in 1981.

Back to the point of the thread Moore vs Oreilly pls

Laying out your views on the adminstrations is pure opinionated arguments as opposed to this tub of lard making a fictional movie that not even he admitted was not a documentary.

Only the silly democrats view this movie as a soo called documentary.

LoL wow I cant believe I missed this argument. I never seen O'Railly sound like he did there. What a clash!!!! hehehe sort of funny, they both sounding like whining girls.

Now, who owned who?!?!.. well, ofcourse the conservative side will celebrate O'Rrailly and the lefties Moore.. I'll try to be central here. They both went stuck with their ideas and defended their ideas with two different views.. it was either black and white... I would say Moore made his case .. though not fully hence theres many other things that have gone down.. very nice debate none-the less.

PS: Something I've noticed.. you right wings seem so fired up lately..

not that i agree with O'Reilly but i think he was a better debator. Moore missed several important issues and got stuck more.

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec All that can be refuted with one comment. Moore made a HollyWood movie with distortion of facts. No? Back to the point of the thread Moore vs Oreilly pls Laying out your views on the adminstrations is pure opinionated arguments as opposed to this tub of lard making a fictional movie that not even he admitted was not a documentary. Only the silly democrats view this movie as a soo called documentary.

Why wouldnt he? .. I mean, the movie is as controversial to him as it is to Bush!!!!!! WoW.. what a shocking coincidence.. it prejudices the common interests he shares with the Bush.

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec All that can be refuted with one comment. Moore made a Hollywood movie with distortion of facts. No?

What are you talking about I'm not basing all these facts with Michael Moore's documentary. It has nothing to do with that. Over here in Canada we see both sides of the story and make our own minds. The movie documents what happened in Iraq, so that�s why its a documentary... ok I agree with you when you say its opinionated which is true when he speaks about bush. Other than that everything I said earlier is actually true buddy. I'm not trying to pull your leg. Are you saying Bush has made the world safer? Are you denying the insane death count in Iraq?

True Moore could have said more but look at the interview, the entire time they attack each other over whether Bush is a liar or not. And I give my hats off to O'reilly for doing everything he could to make sure time runs out in the interview so that Moore would not have an opportunity to say everything.

About Bin laden's Step Bro who is like his cousin and hasn�t spoken to Bin Laden since the late 80s early 90s and wasn�t one of the people who flew out of the US. And has every motive to save his and his families name to save his own and his families buisnesses. This is the guy you are going to listen to, buddy its a fact that two days after 9/11 not one not two but 142 members of the Royal Saudi family, Bin laden family and other Saudi nationals flew out of the US when every other saudi was subjected to intense background checkups that lasted weeks. That is all that counts in this PERTICULAR argument. Don�t try and pretend like that�s all Moore talked about in his film.

Ok answer these questions:
How many people killed in Iraq?
Are there any weapons of mass destruction?
How many minutes do you think you'd last if you went to Pakistan for a visit?
Have US soldiers defected to Canada?

If you were the President and someone told you that
'I can draw you a picture of a Nuclear power facility that I have no evidence of'.
' I have information from a friend of a friend of a friend who says Iraq the country who cannot import lead for pencils in school (lead is essential in weapons production and Iraq has none)... has people dieing with diseases because of these sanctions which don�t allow medicine to be imported... is the same country that is enriching uranium. (Which you can detect very easily via satellite due to the large quantity of heat generated) Is going to develop a nuclear bomb to attack the US with?

You�re complaining about Michael Moores 'opinionated arguments' which he doesn�t deny nor does anyone else?
Your complaining about Michael Moores distorted facts?!?!??
I think you need to rethink your concept of Fact and Opinion. At least make some kind of an effort.

quote:

Originally posted by xKaoSx Well basically what it comes down to is someone lied to him to he wouldnt have to lie. The minions he put in place all had their reasons and whether he knowingly lied or someone lied to him and he didnt know better- it doesnt matter- He is still responsible.

yep, the minions he placed throughout the CIA, and british intelligence, and russian intelligence

good call.

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic What are you talking about I'm not basing all these facts with Michael Moore's documentary. It has nothing to do with that. Over here in Canada we see both sides of the story and make our own minds. The movie documents what happened in Iraq, so that�s why its a documentary...

Go watch the movie again.

Watch his crafty editing.
When he shows the scene about the little iraqi kids flying kites and quickly uses a jump cut editing technique to show bombs falling on "building structures" ,People like you get the idea that bombs are falling on houses of those little children. EH?

Now with that in mind go watch that scene again and tell me those werent Saddam's palaces being bombed.

Yes, exactly what Moore wants people like you to believe, Bush kills children of iraq.

That scene does not show what happened in iraq.
Also with Moore getting very rich you would think he would donate money to the Kerry Campaign....He hasnt

Just shows that he wants to brainwash people....I wont go any further.You should get the point

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic And a small group of the rich and Ignorant who don't want to hear Facts. Which are: - Osama is nowhere to be found. - Bush is a liar. - There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that means there is no way Iraq was an imminent threat to the US - Did I mention bush is a liar? - Iraq is not a safe haven for Al-Qaeda, if any people in America haven�t heard Iraqi insurgents have vowed to kill Al-Qaeda and Occupying forces these are Iraqi people Shiites and Sunni�s - The body count in Iraq is 13,305 - SO not only has bush accounted for 9/11 but he�s also made up for the loss of American lives by killing more Iraqi's - The world is a much more dangerous place for Americans - American soldiers are defecting to Canada because they know the war is illegal - UN rejected war - Bush is a liar I should also note that Al-Qaeda has a lot more support now than ever. The US didn�t kill Al-Qaeda they built it up. Now more orphans widows and widowers have developed sympathy for Al-Qaeda, their main source of recruits.

ok here are answers

- Osama is not found. Its hard enough to pick Waldo out of a single page, let alone one man in an entire region of a globe.

- Bush is a liar, *please see O'Reily's arguments*

- They had unaccounted weapons after the first gulf war which still are unaccounted for. Saddam never accounted for them. They weren't used and there wasn't an immenent military threat.

- Did I mention bush is a liar? *Please see point #2 above*

- Yeah insurgent will kill Al Qaida? When? After the insurgents finish killing their own people?

- Body count. Please check body count while Saddam was in power. Also check that insurgents are killing far more iraqis than Americans. Please note 68 iraqis killed today in bombing.

- Some 9/11 drivel. Where did you get this one from?

- Why is the world more dangerous? No major attacks against Americans have happened since the war on terror. With terrorists the world is always dangerous.

- Soldiers have defected in every war since war has begun, this is no different. I'd hardly call a few soldiers crossing the border a river of defections.

- The UN doesn't know when to intervene in any situation. There are massacres going on now and they won't do anything either. The UN never passed a resolution against the US in violation of the war in Iraq.

- Bush is a liar - *Please see point 4, regarding point 2 above*

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec Go watch the movie again. Watch his crafty editing. When he shows the scene about the little iraqi kids flying kites and quickly uses a jump cut editing technique to show bombs falling on "building structures" ,People like you get the idea that bombs are falling on houses of those little children. EH? Now with that in mind go watch that scene again and tell me those werent Saddam's palaces being bombed. Yes, exactly what Moore wants people like you to believe, Bush kills children of iraq. That scene does not show what happened in iraq. Also with Moore getting very rich you would think he would donate money to the Kerry Campaign....He hasnt Just shows that he wants to brainwash people....I wont go any further.You should get the point

Was that your impresion?!?!?!.. Thats not the impresion I got from that part of the movie. I think the argument he tried to implement was that.. before the war in Iraq, people were living a normal life, they were happy, and had a normal life... and with this War in Iraq, that, by the opinion of more then half americans now, was a huge mistake... all the lifes of those people changed for the reason of.. and argument of whattt?!?!?!... Yes, the bombs fell on the palaces and government buildings, but peoples life changed since then.. you would be LYING if Iraquis were not killed with those bombings, inoccent civilians.. for what?!?!.. to live in what is now the "meltingpot" for terrorists??.... thats the impresion I got, not the impresion that you are making out of it.. which is.. " Yeah we went to Iraq to bomb kids".. mm

Diff ideals/Beliefs

hence different interpretations.

I took it as saying that before the bombings the Iraqi children had better access to kites.

Seriously, does anyone believe the Iraqis led "normal" lives under Saddam?

Dude!! I haven�t seen the movie!!!!... Once again get it in your thick thick head I don't care what took place in the Movie. What is important is what happened in reality. Still I�ll go with what you�re talking about 'Crafty editing' you speak of doesn�t sway anyone except some ignorant Americans like you. Man I don�t know how to break this to you but Bush is responsible for the deaths of children. When the war was waged its well-documented fact (NOT FROM MOORE) that all the Iraq insurgents merged into the city. Only a few Palaces were destroyed and the rest are still in use not by the people of Iraq but by the US f***ing Military. The military has used chemical weapons in Baghdad which will remain in the atmosphere for years. Causing many forms of respiratory diseases.
LiquidX saw the movie check what impression he got from it. >>
You know what we see on TV here in Canada we see how sorry your lives are in America... post 9/11 your government has built a new chapter on propaganda far worse than the nazis and ever Hitler could ever do.

You need to read facts!

And what are O'rielly's arguments? Who gives a shit? Bush didn�t tell the truth any excuse O'reilly made where hardly sufficiant to excuse bush. You weren�t part of the millions of people around the world that protested the war; bush made sure you didn�t see much of that.

quote:

- Why is the world more dangerous? No major attacks against Americans have happened since the war on terror. With terrorists the world is always dangerous.

Umm. You just wont get it will you. Before Americans could travel the world received by everyone with open arms. Now try and go anywhere everyone hates Americans. You don�t call beheading of Americans a threat. These people didn�t appear out of thin air, they are there because of America because of its government's policies. You don�t call kidnapping of Japanese; Chinese & Pakistani people a threat. You don�t call the bombing in Spain a threat.

quote:

The UN doesn't know when to intervene in any situation. There are massacres going on now and they won't do anything either. The UN never passed a resolution against the US in violation of the war in Iraq.

Ok so what your saying is that we should let the US government be the governing body of the world that makes all decisions and has the right to choose the fate of children around the world. Okaaay~

quote:

Yeah insurgent will kill Al Qaida? When? After the insurgents finish killing their own people?

I'm going to explain again pay attention this time.
Suicide bombings/beheadings = al-qaeda
Insurgents = Iraqi people (men women children Muslims and Christians) who want US out they do not kill their own that�s what your media wants you to believe... or probably what you want to believe.

quote:

Body count. Please check body count while Saddam was in power. Also check that insurgents are killing far more Iraqis than Americans. Please note 68 Iraqis killed today in bombing.

Why don�t YOU try and prove to me that the same or even half or even quarter amount of people would have died (since the war in Iraq) if Sadaam was in power. Plus Look up for translation of insurgents they don�t kill their own.

I could go on trying to make endless arguments but I realize now the extent of this propaganda you people get. It's seriously sickening you don�t know or you don�t want to know what�s really going on in the world around you. You don�t understand the issues obviously for anyone to understand the issues you have to look on both sides of the story. Just for a minute think about why everyone in the world got together and made America look from Saviors to the Condemned. It's not politically motivated its not helping the Democrats if America looks like shit. Its not religion, Al qaeda is made up of Muslims but the people protesting against America are of every religion. And their reason is united.

Here we go, another left wing socialist hippie. Hausmusic, you're just as bad as Moore. The naivity to not recognise the anti-american propaganda put forward by your media & stupid french government is astounding.

btw insurgents inshmurgents, anyone who attacks an american soldier deserves to die and go to hell

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic Man I don�t know how to break this to you but Bush is responsible for the deaths of children. The military has used chemical weapons in Baghdad which will remain in the atmosphere for years. Causing many forms of respiratory diseases. You know what we see on TV here in Canada we see how sorry your lives are in America... post 9/11 your government has built a new chapter on propaganda far worse than the nazis and ever Hitler could ever do. You weren�t part of the millions of people around the world that protested the war; bush made sure you didn�t see much of that. Before Americans could travel the world received by everyone with open arms. Now try and go anywhere everyone hates Americans. Insurgents = Iraqi people (men women children Muslims and Christians) who want US out they do not kill their own that�s what your media wants you to believe... or probably what you want to believe. Plus Look up for translation of insurgents they don�t kill their own. I could go on trying to make endless arguments but I realize now the extent of this propaganda you people get. It's seriously sickening you don�t know or you don�t want to know what�s really going on in the world around you. You don�t understand the issues obviously for anyone to understand the issues you have to look on both sides of the story. Just for a minute think about why everyone in the world got together and made America look from Saviors to the Condemned. It's not politically motivated its not helping the Democrats if America looks like shit. Its not religion, Al qaeda is made up of Muslims but the people protesting against America are of every religion. And their reason is united.

I'm speechless.

Why do people even argue with the liberal airheads about Michael Moore? Since Moore decided to quote Orwell in his movie as one of the great thinking minds, I think I'll quote Orwell too:

quote:

The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to taking life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States...

You have to realize that proponents of the Michael Moore movement are mostly sheep who do exactly as Moore does:

Ask pointless questions - and ignore the answers. Or follow them up with even more pointless questions.

Regurgitate the same "facts" over and over again, no matter how false they are, in the hopes that enough repetition will cause people to swallow them.

And of course, when it looks like your debate opponent might be gaining the upper hand, lash out with a barrage of political slurs.

Moore, somehow, has got it down to an art, unlike his ersatz counterparts in this thread. As I tried to mention before with nobody listening (), intelligent debate with radical left-wingers who don't even understand that they are left-wing is simply not possible.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono I took it as saying that before the bombings the Iraqi children had better access to kites. Seriously, does anyone believe the Iraqis led "normal" lives under Saddam?

Better then now, yes... ( at least thats what they claim saying )

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Why do people even argue with the liberal airheads about Michael Moore? Since Moore decided to quote Orwell in his movie as one of the great thinking minds, I think I'll quote Orwell too: You have to realize that proponents of the Michael Moore movement are mostly sheep who do exactly as Moore does: Ask pointless questions - and ignore the answers. Or follow them up with even more pointless questions. Regurgitate the same "facts" over and over again, no matter how false they are, in the hopes that enough repetition will cause people to swallow them. And of course, when it looks like your debate opponent might be gaining the upper hand, lash out with a barrage of political slurs. Moore, somehow, has got it down to an art, unlike his ersatz counterparts in this thread. As I tried to mention before with nobody listening (), intelligent debate with radical left-wingers who don't even understand that they are left-wing is simply not possible.

LoL is funny how you people portray someone who was against the war or anything on that style.. RADICAL LIBERAL.. wtf.. and .. if Im religious, Im I conservative or liberal?

you know i'm think i'm going to vote for Bush... ONLY cuz i hate Micheal Moore so much. I don't belive in the way he "represents" me. If he would asked me if i should send my son (if i had one) to iraq i would say no. Nobody wants to send their kids to war. BUT that is not my choice to make. When my kid turns 18 he is legally and morally old enough to make his own decision. I would support their decision, not tell them they are going to die in vain.

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX LoL is funny how you people portray someone who was against the war or anything on that style.. RADICAL LIBERAL.. wtf.. and .. if Im religious, Im I conservative or liberal?

Not at all. Although the anti-war movement is definitely a left-wing one, it is by no means radical - I myself have very mixed feelings about the subject.

The "radical" part comes with the outrageous claims like:
- BUSH LIED
- BUSH IS A TERRORIST
- BUSH IS CENSORING THE NEWS ON THE WAR
- EVERYONE HATES AMERICANS
- SADDAM WAS A SAINT AND DID NO WRONG
- IRAQIS AREN'T COMMITTING TERRORISM, THEY'RE JUST REBELLING AGAINST THE USA'S IMPERIALISTIC OPPRESSION

Or just incredibly stupid questions, like:
- Would YOU send YOUR children out to die? (What a ludicrous question - you can't "send" your children out to war, it's not UP to you sacrifice someone *else's* life)
- WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION?
- What's taking Iraq so long to rebuild their entire shattered economy into a fully developed country?

Everyone SHOULD be able to see just how inane these questions and platitudes are - and if you can't, then you really are a radical liberal (or maybe just plain ignorant).

I've heard many an intelligent person talk about why they were against the war, and they made some very good points. Michael Moore isn't one of them - he can't even keep his facts consistent, let alone true. And his supporters in this thread are doing him no credit with their positively sloppy debating.

Believe me, I'm the last person to call someone else a radical just because I disagree with them. But I'm hearing a lot of radical bullshit in this thread, I'm sorry to say.

quote:

Originally posted by Frankie83 Here we go, another left wing socialist hippie. Hausmusic, you're just as bad as Moore. The naivity to not recognise the anti-american propaganda put forward by your media & stupid french government is astounding. btw insurgents inshmurgents, anyone who attacks an american soldier deserves to die and go to hell

Anti-American?? Moore isn�t Anti-American...neither am I. it�s this exact propaganda that people like you want the public to believe.
Hey buddy reality check most of America thinks the administration and war was a major fukup. According to that Americans are Anti-American...?? I don�t think so. Questioning your government�s actions is the best thing a country can do and it�s what makes it a democracy.

I disagree with you on "anyone who attacks an American soldier deserves to die and go to hell" comment. Just saying that sums up what kind of a person you are. You think other people (Iraqi's) don't have a right to fight for their rights? For their homes and oil...

I have a question for a person like you. For a change I would like you to take Iraqi's side in perspective. Tell me if you think putting a fraud President who is not democratically elected to run your country and do things which you don�t want, things that are not good for your national identity? Would you like that? �.

Let's play a little game, called "identify the biased language". Now we all know that any real intellectual, logical argument should just evaluate based on the facts, right? It's normally not my style to pick apart an argument piece by piece as I know it can be very tedious to read, but the opportunity here was just too good to pass up. So here we go:

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic it�s this exact propaganda that people like you want the public to believe.

Note the use of the word "propaganda" and the phrase "people like you". The words "want...to believe" also imply by their tone that it is untrue, while failing to provide any evidence of this fact. Clearly there is no objectivity to this part of the argument.

quote:

Hey buddy reality check

Ooh, "reality check!" I like that one. Anybody who disagrees is obviously dreaming, right!?

quote:

most of America thinks the administration and war was a major fukup.

A poll, a survey, even a measly statistic, anything to back up this assertion...?

quote:

Questioning your government�s actions is the best thing a country can do and it�s what makes it a democracy.

Note the referral of his own argument as "questioning" alongside the earlier characterization of the opposing argument as "propaganda". Double standard, perhaps?

quote:

Just saying that sums up what kind of a person you are.

Nice, we've got some ad hominem going on here...

quote:

You think other people (Iraqi's) don't have a right to fight for their rights? For their homes and oil...

Poor, poor Iraqis... *sniff* that sentiment almost made me shed one single tear. Almost. Then I started to wonder how this "rights" stuff is even remotely relevant to the debate...

quote:

I have a question for a person like you.

Again we see "a person like you." Judge, jury, and executioner here - lumping this "person" into some particular group. What group, I can only imagine - nuts? Kooks? Intellectuals, maybe?

quote:

For a change I would like you to take Iraqi's side in perspective.

Oh now that's a good one, this paragraph is actually telling us to take someone else's side in a debate. Pure brilliance! Hey everybody, I know you disagree with me, but just take my side for a minute and you'll understand!

quote:

Tell me if you think putting a fraud President

Back to the daily grind of accusations we go! Fraud, yes, of course! Why wasn't he brought up on criminal charges again? Only hausmusic knows the answer to that!

quote:

who is not democratically elected to run your country

Hussein, on the other hand, was clearly democratically elected, yes?

quote:

and do things which you don�t want, things that are not good for your national identity? Would you like that? �.

The national identity! Could we have picked a term that's any more vague and subjective? Just exactly what IS a national identity anyway?


So let me ask you hausmusic... I've pointed out the bias in your argument, now would you care to point out the facts (or at least basic logic) in it?

Or maybe you're just a big doody-head talking through his poo-poo hole who can't string together a complete sentence, let alone a coherent argument.

Damn Canadian airheads.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Not at all. Although the anti-war movement is definitely a left-wing one, it is by no means radical - I myself have very mixed feelings about the subject. The "radical" part comes with the outrageous claims like: - BUSH LIED - BUSH IS A TERRORIST - BUSH IS CENSORING THE NEWS ON THE WAR - EVERYONE HATES AMERICANS - SADDAM WAS A SAINT AND DID NO WRONG - IRAQIS AREN'T COMMITTING TERRORISM, THEY'RE JUST REBELLING AGAINST THE USA'S IMPERIALISTIC OPPRESSION Or just incredibly stupid questions, like: - Would YOU send YOUR children out to die? (What a ludicrous question - you can't "send" your children out to war, it's not UP to you sacrifice someone *else's* life) - WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? - What's taking Iraq so long to rebuild their entire shattered economy into a fully developed country? Everyone SHOULD be able to see just how inane these questions and platitudes are - and if you can't, then you really are a radical liberal (or maybe just plain ignorant). I've heard many an intelligent person talk about why they were against the war, and they made some very good points. Michael Moore isn't one of them - he can't even keep his facts consistent, let alone true. And his supporters in this thread are doing him no credit with their positively sloppy debating. Believe me, I'm the last person to call someone else a radical just because I disagree with them. But I'm hearing a lot of radical bullshit in this thread, I'm sorry to say.

Explain to me why asking the MAIN reason for going to war is a radical Question? I.e. WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION?

I seriously doubt you are the "last person to call someone else a radical just because I disagree with them"

The question would you send your children to war means how would you feel if you made a decision that means sending you child to war or saying at home.
HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT IT! RETARD
You won't feel good obviously if the reason for going to war is one you do not agree with.

Show me where someone called Sadaam a saint?
Show me where someone called bush a terrorist?
America is controlling Iraq's Oil; they haven�t legally entered the country. Just to let you know
EVERYONE HATES the American government!! And their policies (Most people not everyone)

Ok I want you to think. Did you see the footage on Moore�s movie? Forget the moral of the story. DID you see the footage before? Now because you didn�t doesn�t that mean that you did not receive the whole truth? It�s because his administration wanted a positive outlook on the war.

I HAVE NOT SEEN MOORE�S movie. All my info is based on real facts and what I can see on BBC and CBC, which is information enough for me to decide that the Bush Administration messed up.

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