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-- Who should pay for the date? *UPDATED*
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I find that if you dont tolerate the abuse they eventually move on to someone who does. When i was in latin america however it was completely opposite. women wanted to be with you for you... it was a wierd change for me and it confirmed how i had felt about canada and in particular toronto, for a long time now.

Women here have the princes queen shit mentality and its partly thanks to the guys who let them get away with it.

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Originally posted by tw1tch But in general, I'd pay for the first date, 2nd too, but after that (and especially if there was no offer to help in the first two). I'd be on the highroad out of there. Go find someone else to take advantage of.

Couldn't agree more!!

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Originally posted by Durafei Whoever asks for a date should pay for a date. IMHO that's fair. Thus if you are a guy and ask a girl for a date, expect to pay for it. Once you are in a relationship; however, partners should take turns. That's my 0.02c

I agree...if you ask someone out, be prepared to cover that first bill.

After that...I dunno...chivalry is nice, but other factors soon come into play. If one person earns double what the other does (say, someone working FT is dating a student), is it really logical that they should always split the bill?

Personally, with dates and with friends, I don't keep score...I'm hardly "high rollin", but I make decent money...so if I'm dating someone who isn't in that position, I don't mind paying more often then they do.

People EXCPECTING to be paid for all the time...that's another story...I refuse to be someone's sugar daddy, lol. But if you meet the person of your dreams, or even just someone you really like...are you really going to let a little $$$ stand in the way?

Mark T: not at all... but if they dont respect you enough to at least offer to pay (remember a first date is a meeting among strangers) then shes not worth a second date IMO.

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Originally posted by MarkT If one person earns double what the other does (say, someone working FT is dating a student), is it really logical that they should always split the bill?

Nope... If you want to make it work, each person has to be understanding with respect to the other person's financial situation. You make it work. Even if that means one person is spending more than the other. As long as the person thats spending less is making an honest effort to contribute what they can, i see no problem.

money sucks.... period...

the last thing i want is a female paying my meal...

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Originally posted by Jayx1 I find that if you dont tolerate the abuse they eventually move on to someone who does. When i was in latin america however it was completely opposite. women wanted to be with you for you... it was a wierd change for me and it confirmed how i had felt about canada and in particular toronto, for a long time now. Women here have the princes queen shit mentality and its partly thanks to the guys who let them get away with it.

I think you simply need to re-evalute the company you keep if these are the kinds of girls you are surrounded by. No matter where you are in the world, the same kinds of people exist, so it's certainly not a Toronto phenomena.

I tend to have the luck to be surrounded by great ppl, and the girls I've been involved with/interested in are good, interesting ppl in their own right. I'd suggest changing your surroundings man, sounds like you're spending too much time in the wrong pond.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Stereoprincess: a woman's time is worth more than a meal? Well so is mine... so what do i get out of this?

are you sure yours is tho? and what do you want to get out of it.

quote:

Originally posted by tw1tch But in general, I'd pay for the first date, 2nd too, but after that (and especially if there was no offer to help in the first two). I'd be on the highroad out of there. Go find someone else to take advantage of.

And they will. Two dates is enough. At that rate, they can get free dinners for the next 100 lifetimes and still not run out of suckers

being invited every once in a while is definitely nice & special, however, i do NOT want a guy paying for me all the time! i cannot stand it b/c it makes me feel guilty, uncomfortable, incapable and DEPENDENT. based on my own pride and integrity i like to have my own job, income, bank a/c and spending money.

and i, as a woman, certainly do not mind treating my other half every once in a while too! in fact, i take pride in this!

equality goes both ways. it should be a non-discriminating & reciprocal relationship - in whatever form - without expectations. if u give something, it should be genuine!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 My famous saying "equality ends when the cheque comes to the table" Women seem to want it (and they have it) both ways. They want all the trappings of feminism (and so they should have) such as equal pay and equal rights but when that actually becomes a disadvantage they all of a sudden become traditionalists. This is why i have obstained from dating canadian women for a while. Im sick of the double standard. Not all are this way but there are way too many "princesses" out there that forget how to treat their prince. That old rap song said it best.... "this is equal rights..you can pick up the cheque"

Well, once women actually do get equal rights in the work force then they can pick up all the checks but unfortunately this is still not the case. You keep on stating this point but in fact women still make less money and have crappier jobs, so therefore, your ongoing repetition of "equal rights end when the check arrives" is wrong. Equality hasn't started yet so how can it end?

The man should always pay for the date. That is his duty.

If he does not, he's a big pussy.

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Originally posted by Skipper I don't think men SHOULD pay, but most of the guys I have dated still have some sense of chivalry and like to think of themselves as the providers, meaning, they always offer to pay

Hah. I hardly think most are doing it out of chivalry but more out of insecurity - having the feeling that the girl's worth so much more then they are.


I have to agree with you diabolic and with what other's have said. Good for you man. But you gotta remember there's a lot of insecure guys out there that hand all the power in a relationship or a date possibly leading into a relationship to the woman because they have no feeling of self worth, so I can sort sympathize with them.


Now, as to adding something new to the convo, i'll say this. Although I can agree with you when taking the very strong no BS stance for example right from the first date, of expecting the girl to at least motion to reach for the purse to show some good intetion or you're zooming out of there right then and then, i'll say that if you're not feeling so ballsy that night and/or you want to give her the benefit of the doubt, let it slide the first time. But if there's no offer 2nd date, then yeah, a big fuck off is in order. What you can even do is leave right there and let her foot it so you're even.


Its not important keeping exact track of splitting everything evenly (this is more or less for when you're going steady) in fact i find the idea of actually consistently splitting a bill a little distasteful - much rather for the most part take turns covering it - and of course like was said earlier no harm in treating someone's to something here and there. The bottom line, is do you see kindness and genuiness being reciproated back. That's easy to spot if you are not insecure and/or can read ppl well which you sound like you're very good at doing (like me).

I didn't read everything, but i agree with some early responders. I don't mind paying for the first date. I don't even mind paying for the second but she had at least better make some sort of attempt to show she's not leaching off of me, or expecting me to pay all the time. I'll let it slide to the third date...then she gets the old Shift + Delete.

first few dates you pay for your shit i pay for mine. d!abolic and a few others have already mentioned why. The most important person in my life is myself. My time is more important than anyone elses, I come first. This doesn't mean I'm an asshole or that I'm not a 'gentlemen' ...It just means im not a sucker.

The trick is getting the chick to pay for your stuff

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf The man should always pay for the date. That is his duty. If he does not, he's a big pussy.

Not at all. If you really care about the person then of course you should pay, otherwise you're an asshole. But what about some date that you don't know? If you have to pay for her shit in order for her to like you or go out with you again...well...find another place to pick up women.

edit: taking turns is a good idea too...but you better be sure you're getting that next date that she's paying for

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Originally posted by d!abolic If you were a single mother of four working for minimum wage, then the noble thing for the man to do may in fact be to pay. In that case, you would NEED his support. But in reality, you don't. There is no NEED for him to be a provider, and he's creating an artificial need to compensate for lack of other admirable qualities. Think about it, how is that different from the guy who constantly talks about himself and won't shut up about how much he makes, or how much he lifts or how well connected he is?

You're making a lot of assumptions about the guys I date.
Because they like to treat the person they are dating means he has an "artificial need to compensate for lack of other admirable qualities?"

That's bullshit.

I like to treat the men I date as well - my last boyfriend got tickets for us to Europe for his birthday. Of the more recent guys I have dated, I have made more than them per year, yet they still insist on paying more than their half of the time we go out. I try to make this up in other ways - on birthdays, special events, etc.

Two things:

- because a man likes to treat a woman to dinner, or whatever, does not mean he is trying to make up for something else he lacks.
- because a woman accepts this generousity, does not mean that she is a money-grabbing, two faced feminist.

there's really nothing _wrong_ with the guy paying for the date but he's gotta ask himself what he's getting out of it...you know?

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Originally posted by Elmo-On-XTC there's really nothing _wrong_ with the guy paying for the date but he's gotta ask himself what he's getting out of it...you know?

This statement REALLY bothers me... Are you telling me when you buy someone something/do a favour you EXPECT something in return and if so what?

I 100% agree with most people on this topic, everything should be equal.. I hate a guy paying for everything or buying me things constantly. This doesn't mean that I don't like to be spoiled though.. Everyone deserves it once in a while.. My boyfriend and I are 50-50 for the most part..

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf If he does, he's a big pussy.

Fixed

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper You're making a lot of assumptions about the guys I date. Because they like to treat the person they are dating means he has an "artificial need to compensate for lack of other admirable qualities?" That's bullshit. I like to treat the men I date as well - my last boyfriend got tickets for us to Europe for his birthday. Of the more recent guys I have dated, I have made more than them per year, yet they still insist on paying more than their half of the time we go out. I try to make this up in other ways - on birthdays, special events, etc.

Actually, i'm not making any assumptions about the guys you date - i haven't met any of them. I'm just letting you know that, like someone has already stated, that when MEN YOU'RE JUST STARTING TO DATE insist on paying for everything, they're not doing this because they're truly noble and chivalrous, but because they have a low sense of self-worth, lack admirable qualities and try to make up for all of that by doing everything imaginable for the girl. This doesn't apply to MEN YOU'VE BEEN DATING FOR AWHILE - that's a completely different scenario. Once you get to know eachother and grow to like eachother for who you are, it feels great to treat eachother, as in the way you mentioned. But then you're doing it because you genuinely like the person and want to make them happy, not because you're insecure and want to make them like you.

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Originally posted by Callie5 This statement REALLY bothers me... Are you telling me when you buy someone something/do a favour you EXPECT something in return and if so what?

I think what he means is that if the girl thinks she has the right to use him for money, the guy has the right to use her for sex. And i agree with this - they're (i don't mean him) are both shallow and deserve one another.

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Originally posted by Callie5 This statement REALLY bothers me... Are you telling me when you buy someone something/do a favour you EXPECT something in return and if so what?

well it kind of ties into my post higher up on the page. I wouldn't say I expect something in return, it's just that I don't feel it's necessary to spoil them if it's a first/second date. At this point I hardly even know them. Now, if it were someone I cared about I wouldn't have any problem spoiling them a little without getting something back in return...though I'd think they would if they cared about me as well

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf The man should always pay for the date. That is his duty. If he does not, he's a big pussy.

you sound like a sucker

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Two things: - because a man likes to treat a woman to dinner, or whatever, does not mean he is trying to make up for something else he lacks. - because a woman accepts this generousity, does not mean that she is a money-grabbing, two faced feminist.

In a long term relationship, I agree. But if this happens for the first 3 or 4 dates, I'm not so sure.

I don't know how anyone could feel good about themselves letting someone else continuously pay their way.

quote:

Originally posted by Carney you sound like a sucker

signed.

everyone point and laugh.

quote:

Originally posted by Carney you sound like a sucker

When men date men, there is no woman to pay...

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