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quote:

Originally posted by Extravaganza AGREED. IM REALLY BEGGINING TO HATe THIS PLACE. this is one of the reasons i havent posted here in a while, cause this old ta pps think they are better than anyone else who happens to have just registered a couple of months... why doesn it make them better????SOME STUPID POST COUNT.. who gives ashit about that count???? and swamper is the biggest ass moderator for a website, he doesnt know how to work this shit...

Hmm. Clearly your excessive use of expletives is only indicative of your immaturity and lack of a cohesive argument - why is all this vent up anger being directed towards me? I don't 'know how to work this shit' ? Excuse me? Enlighten me with your knowledge as to how to 'work this shit' - I am all ears to hear your brilliance.

quote:

this is so stupid and so underespectful to a LOT of new people who come to TA because they "THINK" that you guys are gonna treat everyone the same.. BUT GUESS WHAT?? if you have less than 1000 posts... it makes you a VIP person, if you have any less, you are NOT VIP... now what kinda site is this...

Actually a lot of individuals who were present on the site earlier in 2000 and weren't as active in the forums were also allowed into this section - there were some individuals with excessive post counts who weren't allowed due to the lack of quality of their posts and then general attitude and lack of open mindedness towards newbies.

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I really dont give a shit about this site anymopre. it is already going down the drain, and what is the point of having people still RESGISTER to post in this shit,, if you treat them as just anothe rnewbie.. what makes the older ones better than the new ones??? yall are a bunch of hiprocrits.

It's clear from your post that you do not - someone who cares for the site would find a valid point to argue and back it up with pertinent facts - you just seem to be venting at everyone randomly. Bad day perhaps?

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i found a better site, where there a lot more girls from different countries, curse words are not allowed, and profanityisnt allowed either.

Hmm.. who is the hyprocrite now? If you want to go to a forums just because there is a higher percentage of posters who are female then perhaps you aren't here for the music.

quote:

oh by the way SWAMPER.. you should becareful to who you are inviting to your lil vip forums.. because some of them are going around telling everyone how you told them not to tell anyone about it.

I never told them not to tell anyone about it.

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and guess what, some of these so -called -trusted VIp friends of yours. talk about you all the time. so heres a note for you.... don't trust everyone you talk to, specially when you don't know them in person, and not to mention you have totally ruined your reputation by hiding information from a lot of people of TA.

Such is humanity that people talk about other people, I'm not losing sleep over it.

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so good luck with this piece of shit site.

Thank you.

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Originally posted by discojoe This forum is becoming just as fucking retarded as tribe's. Here's and Idea.. make a forum where people can say whatever they want without getting their messages deleted! And VIP? wtf? lets reward fucking losers who sit by their computers and post for 6 hours a day just to see their postcount go up...

While post count is one factor taken in consideration it solely is NOT the determining one - many individuals with post counts less than 100-200 are in there.

HAHA..way to go swamps. nothing is better or funnier than being responding to dumb assed things with a tad of intelligence.

You GO.. Swamper!.. I myself don't think that the VIP-forum is a great succes till now, but that's just my opinion.. I just wanna say: "Thanks for keeping this site up and running!!.. " Nice to see you're swamp monster again, it has been some time since i last saw it!.. Keep up the good work!

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HAHA..way to go swamps. nothing is better or funnier than being responding to dumb assed things with a tad of intelligence.

This is the exact kinda attitude that is driving people away in droves in this forum. I've been reading the threads including Blik's and havn't really felt any need to respond to all this bullshit because I felt this whole mess is so lame.

Apparently J_spot you feel that Extravaganza's post is dumb and have no merit but he does bring up some valid points. I haven't been here too long so I guess you could consider me a newbie as well and although I haven't felt like I've been 'treated like a newbie' I can see it how others can feel this way.

This kind of nonsense happens in every board and people eventually leave, but hey that always happens. Old members leave and new members join. This happens all the time, but I've never seen this amount of whining and bitching in any forum! The whole VIP thing?....look this is Swamper's board and he doesn't owe anybody anything. If he feels it's necessary to have it, the decision is ultimately up to him.

I've read through Blik's post and I don't know why it's been deleted. And although I'm not sure if he would've made that post if he WAS invited into the VIP forum, I feel it's odd that you have old members leaving , moderators leaving, and even new members all leaving.
Too many people are fed up about this forum, and most of the attitudes have been like " lol, goodbye" or "you're bitching about nothing". It doesn't say much of the people that are in here. I havn't seen any other forum with this level of immaturity and class.

There also was another thread started by Blik "What do you think about the VIP forum?" and why was that deleted? I'm not sure if Blik deleted it on his own or not, I just hope it wasn't another moderator who thought the thread was dumb. It seems like Swamper and all the....ahem.... ""VIP members""is just defending this Vip forum without dealing with the REAL issue. I don't know what this Vip forum is and I don't give 2 shits about it, but apparently lots of people feel that this advocates a class structure among its members and can't stand the elitist attitude that accompanies it. All this is completely retarded. All this "This place is fucked up, i'm leaving" is unconstructive. I can see how the "vip members" feel that people are overeacting over nothing and I can also sympathise how others feel as well.

I don't see a 'community' spirit here in this forum whatsoever. All this is so juvenile and I can't see how all of you can't come to an amicable solution without ranting and raving and making fun of others. Swamper, how you deal with this situation says a lot of who you are, and right now I get the impression that you could care less, and that's saying something.

when u stop to think about it, u realize that it all comes down to the EVILNESS OF MICROSOFT

think about it...if they hadn't made windows, none of this would've happened and this whole planet would be better off...

heheh..just kidding...theres no point to this thread...pls. close it

peace

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherWay83 when u stop to think about it, u realize that it all comes down to the EVILNESS OF MICROSOFT think about it...if they hadn't made windows, none of this would've happened and this whole planet would be better off... heheh..just kidding...theres no point to this thread...pls. close it peace

No point to this thread?? This is an important subject to many, so why can't people discuss this, why does it have to be closed?

I also felt the deleting of those 2 threads was just very wrong, I wrote out a long reply that explained my thoughts on this whole VIP thing and now its gone. I just don't ever see the need for deleting a thread, closing is fine, but deleting is just terribly wrong.

I think Swamper's heart is in the right place, but I still think the VIP forum will make things worse, and I'm part of that forum, so please don't think my opinions are because I was excluded.

ok ok...i didn't mean to suggest that democracy in TA should be abolished..heheh...bu y r we fighting...theres no point to it...i just found out that while i was included in the "VIP" forum, i am not included in certain other forums, whose names i don't know (but i know they exist)...

no way im gonna make a big deal abt it...its ok w/ me

we're making a mountain over a mole!!!
peace

quote:

Originally posted by Extravaganza if you have less than 1000 posts... it makes you a VIP person, if you have any less, you are NOT VIP... now what kinda site is this... there are so many older peeps in here that act so immature, and there a lot of new one who are here to have fun, and look what you have put everyone trough.

I don't know what you're talking about. There are some people in the VIP forums that have 200 posts.

And for those that think the VIP threads are being used like crazy, there are only a total of 7 threads in there, most of which were just created today. I don't see why the hell this is causing a war on these forums! Maybe if you people would take a look at yourself and the posts that you make then u'd get the answer to why you're not a part of the VIP forums.

Now, Im not included in the *cough*cough* "V...I...P" Forum, but im kinda clueless as to why there is even such a thing?
I mean, im not Swampers best friend or anything... but.. IF there is a good point to the "V.I.P." forum, .. I guess its cool to keep.

BUT!!! it really does alienate a lot other people out there, including myself. But I really would appreciate if this could get cleared up Swamper. Maybe if you would just let us in, as to the "why" there is a need for a vip forum, it would help us understand. I am kinda disappointed there is even such a thing.. because it just makes me feel like "just because I dont have enough time to hound the boards posting things, and learning more about trance, and becoming personal friends with you that my opinions, and comments, arnt as good as someone elses." I think that maybe you should have choiced our words better and named it something else other than a "VIP" forum.

Again, I am truly thankful for all the hardwork, and other things. I would be happy to contribute a Flash intro or anything like that. I know you cannot cater to everyones desires, and I am sure that you are truly working hard for all of us. I think alot of us dont realize everything you do. I still dont feel that a VIP forum is neccesary (but this might be because that I dont know what it is for).

Again... this is just how I feel.
And dont worry, im not going to cry weeks at a time over this, because we all need to remember that this is just an INTERNET forum, that is not REAL life, no matter how well you think you know somebody in this forum.

--Regards

Some posts in this thread seem to regard my post as an attack on the VIP-forum which wasn't what I intended to get across. First of all I'm allowed to view it and I will probably use it if I'm going to start a new thread on something a little deep that I don't want to see being messed up in a fight like this one, or pushed off the page in an afternoon. However, I will still start threads in music discussion and chill out, and I will still reply to posts in music discussion and chill out.
My point was that elitism isn't caused by any forum section, and that the way to deal with it isn't posting an "I'm leaving"-thread, which in itself suggests that you're very important yourself.

I read all the posts in this thread and thought to myself...

im kinda new here, and i didnt even knew about any VIP section, but who cares, why should i feel like someone is above me?, everyone were so nice to me, many helped me get tracks and explained many things, i dont feel like any one is above me by thread like bliks, if he wants to say that he is leaving that his choice and you dont have to go in the thread and read it, and the importent threads will pass him by because they will have more replies.

any way, all i have to say is that we have a group of people who organize for us a great site, great music and a nice forum, and im greatful.

BTW, im one of those ppl that sit infront of the coputer whenever i can to post here but not becuase of post count, who cares about it??
its because i feel like a real addict, and i want to learn as much as i can and help as much as i can.

I don't know what the VIP rooms all about. Coz basically I'm not in it (I'm sure it's just an oversight and my invitation's in the post..er yeah right )

I don't really mind if some people want their own forums to discuss things, the only problem I would have is if it takes away from the rest of the site. By this I mean if the people who make the quality posts and share the quality tunes and create the quality threads only do so away from the public forums. Thus making the public forums full of usless posts and lame discussions. Which would be a shame because it would hurt the site. This is the only site I really use regularly and the only forums I post in. It would be a shame to see them go downhill.

Anyway lets just see how it goes before biting each others heads off yeah?

ummm

Holy crap! look at all the newbies! /me runs off to the vip room.

hehehehe...oh my...hehehehe

LMAO @ Tempest!

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Originally posted by Spad I don't know what the VIP rooms all about. Coz basically I'm not in it (I'm sure it's just an oversight and my invitation's in the post..er yeah right ) I don't really mind if some people want their own forums to discuss things, the only problem I would have is if it takes away from the rest of the site. By this I mean if the people who make the quality posts and share the quality tunes and create the quality threads only do so away from the public forums. Thus making the public forums full of usless posts and lame discussions. Which would be a shame because it would hurt the site. This is the only site I really use regularly and the only forums I post in. It would be a shame to see them go downhill. Anyway lets just see how it goes before biting each others heads off yeah?

Good sentiments, this is the kind of thing that I bet all the non-vip's are thinking. I see it as a problem, others are just happy they were 'special' enough to be given a vip status, I think they are just individuals who ignore the obvious problem this could bring just because they want to feel special.

I think if chill out is a problem then moderators need to take care of that. Why have moderators if you can't control this forum, and honestly this forum is far from being bad, there is plenty of good stuff in this forum. I bet the trolling accounts for maybe 10% of posts, yet thats all some people see. I see the 90% of good that is int this forum, I guess some people just focus on the negetive.

If people can't handle a few problems in the chill out forum they should consider checking out the disney forums, I hear they are fun fun fun

But theres another option, add a few more moderators and have this forum be 'moderated' where every post has to be approved before it gets posted. I personally would never do this at my website, it feels like censorship and definately is up for a lot of abuse.

I think many people just need a thicker skin, I can't ever see a forum thats totally devoid of conflict, dumb posts, dumb people, etc... If you people have looked outside lately, theres plenty of dumb, stupid, pointless people walking around outside Why wouldn't it be the same in an online community??

What are the moderators for, if theres a problem in chill out, make a new forum for only select members? Seems like the wrong solution for this problem, if its even a problem.

With freedom of speech comes that age old thing, some people use freedom of speech to annoy, spout stupid things, etc..... But would I support free speech, hell ya, but would I support banning of trouble makers, closing of threads that are nothing but flames, etc.... YES. So why not approach it that way?

quote:

Originally posted by Thor Good sentiments, this is the kind of thing that I bet all the non-vip's are thinking. I see it as a problem, others are just happy they were 'special' enough to be given a vip status, I think they are just individuals who ignore the obvious problem this could bring just because they want to feel special. I think if chill out is a problem then moderators need to take care of that. Why have moderators if you can't control this forum, and honestly this forum is far from being bad, there is plenty of good stuff in this forum. I bet the trolling accounts for maybe 10% of posts, yet thats all some people see. I see the 90% of good that is int this forum, I guess some people just focus on the negetive. If people can't handle a few problems in the chill out forum they should consider checking out the disney forums, I hear they are fun fun fun But theres another option, add a few more moderators and have this forum be 'moderated' where every post has to be approved before it gets posted. I personally would never do this at my website, it feels like censorship and definately is up for a lot of abuse. I think many people just need a thicker skin, I can't ever see a forum thats totally devoid of conflict, dumb posts, dumb people, etc... If you people have looked outside lately, theres plenty of dumb, stupid, pointless people walking around outside Why wouldn't it be the same in an online community?? What are the moderators for, if theres a problem in chill out, make a new forum for only select members? Seems like the wrong solution for this problem, if its even a problem.

WOW... thor.. you are so right.. can't believe you ar enot in the vip section... which makes me wonder...

HUMMMMMM... you know how they mentioned... that there are people int here wiht less then 100 posts.. but they posts quality stuff???

WELL GUESS WHAT?? OF COURSE THEIR POSTS ARE QUALITY.. THEY HAVENT POSTED ENOUGH FOR THEM TO GET TO KNOW THEM.. BESIDES... WHO CAN TELL MEEEEEE... THAT ALL THE OTHERS HAVE NEVER POSTED ANY USELESS POST i n here???

who.. name one person???????
but guess what... even if i was invited to go in there.. I WOULDNT .. u knwo why? because this is how i got to know TRANCE ADDICT... there are a lot of nice people in here that should be in the vip forums.. i dont care if my posts arent good ENOUGH for the moderators.. cause guess what.. I DONT THINK THESE MODERATORS AREnt goo denough to take care of TA... and im not gonna change.. i dont think i have posted any thing useless.. everythread a opened.. a lot of people responded to it... and i know that there was a lot of new people that registered just to make trouble... but this is called the cill out room...you will have different opinions... from people from different countries.. we are not babies and we werent raised by the same parent.. so there is going to be some reaterded posts wherever you go...


i really dont care about it.. i just feek bad for those who should be in there.. and i am about those who shouldnt be in there.. but hey are.. because they got connections..trough someone else...or because they have been a long time.. even though their posts are.. it is just wrong.

I had a chance to take a look at the vip forums.. and guess what.. seriously i think that place is worse then the regular...eveyrone acts like a bunch of zoombie in there.. all act the same.. i thaught this site was bringing the music community together..

well whatever.. this is my opinion...

cyaa
ybee

quote:

WOW... thor.. you are so right.. can't believe you ar enot in the vip section... which makes me wonder...

I am in the vip section, but I'm one of the few who's not outright supporting the idea, most people are very much thrilled about it, probably because it made them feel special. I feel special with or without the forum lol

Why does everybody makes such a point of the VIP forum? I don't understand... I can understand why people feel left out, but then again, is it such a problem not to be chosen to participate in this special forum? If it makes you feel less worthy, then you have to work on your own self-confidence, because it's just a sign that you're not feeling secure on how other people think of you (and that you have a problem with that).

But if this forum brings two sides, why not try to find a solution. Maybe some more rules in the regular forums, like no spamming and no flaming (and also explain what you mean by that in exact words), and what the consequences are if you do so. Then maybe you wouldn't need a 'secret' forum where just the chosen ones can post. You just apply the rules, so everybody knows what they can post/do/say and what not. And if people don't obey the rules, you warn them, and ask what the reason was for not obeying the rules. It would be Utopia if you didn't need rules, but Utopia doesn't exist, and not all people know how to behave, they still have to learn and apparently need some education in how to behave...
I'm not saying the forums aren't run properly, I'm just trying to think along here,

quote:

Why does everybody makes such a point of the VIP forum? I don't understand... I can understand why people feel left out, but then again, is it such a problem not to be chosen to participate in this special forum? If it makes you feel less worthy, then you have to work on your own self-confidence, because it's just a sign that you're not feeling secure on how other people think of you (and that you have a problem with that).

Now turn that statement exactly around, how interesting the people who were given VIP 'status' feel so special because of it. Its funny but I see all this Swamper 'worshiping' going on, and people get mad at those who think this is a bad idea because Swamper would not like that... Well we are individuals with our own thoughts (at least some of us) so why shouldn't we speak our mind, just because it may not be popular with the VIP people?

Heres your exact statement you made, just with my changes to show you that your point can be made against the VIP thing too

Why does everybody makes such a point of the VIP forum? I don't understand... I can understand why people feel special, but then again, is it such a problem to be chosen to participate in this special forum? If it makes you feel worthy, then you have to work on your own self-confidence, because it's just a sign that you're not feeling secure on how other people think of you (and that you have a problem with that).

Sometimes I feel so smart

Remember, Perception is reality ... Don't forget there are two sides to all issues, learn to see outside your perspective, open your mind, and you'll start to see things more clearly....

Thor, chill out, dude!
�a� er a� fj�ka � mig!

....... hahahahaha

lol Eugene ... Thanks that gave me a good laugh

Don't worry, I don't know if thats the impression I give but I'm totally relaxed. This is not upsetting me, concerns me yes, but its not like I'm losing any sleep over it.

�g er � g�� f��ling

quote:

Now turn that statement exactly around, how interesting the people who were given VIP 'status' feel so special because of it. Its funny but I see all this Swamper 'worshiping' going on, and people get mad at those who think this is a bad idea because Swamper would not like that... Well we are individuals with our own thoughts (at least some of us) so why shouldn't we speak our mind, just because it may not be popular with the VIP people? Heres your exact statement you made, just with my changes to show you that your point can be made against the VIP thing too

It wasn't meant to be just towards the opposites of the VIP forum, it was to everybody, so indeed also to the ones who are happy to be chosen...

I'm not worshiping Swamper, or anybody else. I even don't know the guy, never spoken to him...
I'm also not mad at someone, I just say that it's no big deal.
And I'm not saying that you shouldn't speak your mind. You SHOULD speak your mind, but also try to relativate (is that the right word?) the importance. Worrying about things like this cost much energy, you could use for something else
It's up to you whether you want to 'loose energy' in these kind of things.
I'm not chosen, for the record

And Thor, I think you didn't quite understand what I meant with my other post, but that's because writen words can be explained in different ways, it's not like spoken words, where you hear intonation and can see the other's face...

About freedom of speech: freedom of speech, yes, but please with respect towards others.

Well I guess I'm going to have to sit on the fence with this one.

Personally I have nothing against the idea of a VIP forum - all the other forums that I'm a part of have a similar section, which allows trusted members (and that's the important word - trusted) to share files and to speak in confidence. It's the most effective way - particularly when you're handing out myplay details or something - to ensure that the people who you are talking to are completely trustworthy: that's why they're there. Now I'm not saying that the people who aren't in the VIP room are untrustworthy, because 99% of them are reliable members. But it's that other 1% - the James M's of this world - who you'd like to feel sheltered from, and they're the ones who spoil it for the rest of the members. Now that's not to say that the people in the VIP room are just going to hibernate in there and never come out - or at least I hope not. I know that I'll still be spending most of my time in either this forum or the music one, but it's still nice to know that there's that alternative there.

Having said that, I don't believe that the VIP room will solve any of the problems that we're talking about here, and like many have said before me, it could lead to elitism amongst those "VIP members" who are too immature to handle it properly.

I think that the best answer is to get rid of the VIP chill-out room, and then double the number of moderators in the "regular" chill-out room. I mean this place seems almost anarchic at times - sure the intro to the forum says "anything goes" but so many of the topics are either insanely pointless or potentially offensive. Now I'm not saying that we necessarily have to start "censoring" posts or anything, but, in my opinion, we do need some slightly more vigilant moderating. Whether it means introducing new moderators or just making the existing ones work harder, I think it needs to be done.

Of course, the other alternative to the VIP section (which was intended to allow veteran members - or whatever - to chat without the incovenience of spammers or pointless posts) is to split the Chill-out room into two different sections: one for serious posts of a general nature, the other for posting any old crap of a general nature - you get me? This way, the serious posts don't get infected with low-brow posts, and I guess it would work the other way as well (so that people are free to chat about anything in the "any other old crap" forum without fear of having some wanker like me telling them to stop posting useless stuff). I guess it would work kind've like the General/Party-Central sections do in HoM.

So anyway, cut a long story short, while I don't really disagree with the idea of the VIP room, I do think that there are better alternatives: namely introducing more moderators into this section or splitting it into two different parts to accomodate two different needs. Following either one of these two paths (or maybe even introducing both - splitting up the chill-out room and introducing more moderators) has the added bonus of allowing everyone to stay involved, regardless of how long they've been a member for, while (hopefully) maintaining the integrity of serious posts.

Anyway, I haven't really had time to think this through properly, so if you find anything wrong with my ideas then feel free to tell me - it'll save me from having to do it later on.

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade So anyway, cut a long story short

lol

oh...well...it took a really long time to go thru the posts in this thread and it wasnt a particularly rewarding experience cos it left me confused.

So...wht i think is...having a VIP forum is no big deal...the joy of sharing something with more ppl is always better than tht with a selected few.and nywayz...all those "visionaries" and "quality posts" ppl who r members of the vip forum r gonna be posting here too.

and i dont c y the forums r going down.times change and v need to go with the flow.U r all forgetting something...Tolerance.we certainly need a more tolerant attitude in the forums and not flame frequently and learn to ignore threads v dont like.i think renegade's idea of more moderators will work fine in containing shitty threads....

sop finally i'll go with trancaholic...having a vip forum certainly doesnt introduce any elitism...

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