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Well they kind of watch either way...I mean it's just a different method of watching, so that now they just watch better

Sadly, to argue this as a privacy issue is pretty much a moot point. Our privacy was eroded to nonexistent decades ago and to worry about it now seems a little silly. Considering the myriad ways we can all be tracked through our daily lives if someone so desires enough too, the idea of adding some CCTV cameras in the downtown seems rather trivial. If you are worried about privacy, throw out your cell phone and only pay cash for anything....otherwise your privacy is a phantom anyway and doesn't exist.

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Originally posted by Brindor If anyone has seen the the documentry "Cyberman" about U of T professor / cyborg Steve Mann he makes alot of good points about privacy and wearable computers, etc. the best point he makes is why aren't we allowed to film where ever we like without permission, but we are filmed all the time in stores, etc. without permission.

that man is my hero

Yeah wearable compuers are not new at all...at least not in military...you know all that techology comes from military to civilians just like the GPS...

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Originally posted by malek what concerns me is no these cameras.... but the fact they started this trend of "we watch to protect you"... slowly it will change to "we watch"

That's what worries me too. It's all done in the name of protection and safety at first, for as long as it takes for people to get used to the idea. Once it's "broken in" then the law starts to become more laid-back when it comes to what can be done with it (think photo-radar/red-light cameras, which were pure moneymakers and proven conclusively not to have any positive effects on driving conditions).

Don't forget that even though private establishments are allowed to monitor their own premises, we have very specific laws on how that's allowed to be used. Specifically, people have to give their consent before being audio or video taped. It's one thing to put a sign up in a private building saying "this premise is monitored by closed-circuit television" - you don't have to enter that building if you don't want to - but it's quite another to be waiving your right to privacy and consenting to being taped whenever you step outside your house. Public surveillance eats away at the legal fabric we have in place - even in the U.S., the Supreme Court recently decided in an e-mail related case to waive the wiretap act, partially because surveillance is so common now, especially when it comes to technology.

I'm not against the idea per se - it is troublesome what goes on downtown and I am glad to see them taking steps to fix it. But the potential does exist for abuse and people need to understand that. For anyone who's watched Futurama, I can give you an example, albeit a bit of a silly one right off the top of my head: Fry says something stupid about his PIN at the bank just before finding out he's a billionaire, and when the same conglomerate that runs the surveillance tapes decides he's in competition with them, they use the tapes to figure out a way to get his PIN and take all his money. Yeah, maybe that's a little far-fetched in today's world, but if the wrong people get access to the tapes - and who's to say they won't, knowing how many corrupt police officers there are - it could mean serious trouble.

I'm not saying it's wrong for them to put in the cameras, but keeping in mind that (a) abuse is possible and (b) erosion of privacy laws is almost definite, I think people should treat it with a degree of skepticism as opposed to the old "I've got nothing to hide" attitude. However silly it sounds, we should be keeping an eye on the people who keep an eye on us and make sure they stay in line, and not throw our hands up in the air and go "Oh well, that's the way the ball bounces" when things start to go haywire.

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On the other hand it raises the possibility of using it as an intrusive measure years down the road for fining people for such things as pissing on a garbage can.

maybe they should be fined for pissing on a garbage can! LOL

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Originally posted by Phreeze maybe they should be fined for pissing on a garbage can! LOL

Sometimes you just GOTTA go!

*readies his tinfoil cap*

whether its the airport or the shopping mall we are being watched by eyes in the sky. now its gonna be street?? for fuck sakes why not just follow people with a camera? that way there will be zero crime.

as long as its in the clubbing district i dont mind...see u guys have never been in trouble before were u were almost killed downtown...till u do then u will agree with putting up cameras there...i got rushed by 3 guys with bats around 2 months ago cause they claimed i had jumped on their car when i had came out the club 5 secs prior...they beat in my friends van with bats and then we went after them and it ended up in a street fight...this one i stepped out of....cause the guys i was with i didnt know them well enough and itr was a fair fight anyways

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Originally posted by malek what concerns me is no these cameras.... but the fact they started this trend of "we watch to protect you"... slowly it will change to "we watch"

GUARANTEED malek's rite

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Originally posted by malek what concerns me is no these cameras.... but the fact they started this trend of "we watch to protect you"... slowly it will change to "we watch"

So they can watch, big deal.

The problem: what can they do with what they watch?
The answer: only what the law lets them do.

My thinking is you should not worry about what means are used to enforce current laws. Instead, you should direct your attention and/or criticism at the laws themselves, especially those which you disagree with. Otherwise, like others have said, it will only appear as if you are trying to hide from the law.

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