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-- What do you mean by trainwreck?
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pvd shouldn't trainwreck...

i mean...he adds that stupid same kick drum on every damn track...it should flow like water

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Originally posted by Floorfiller he adds that stupid same kick drum on every damn track

If it ain't broke don't fix it...

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Originally posted by Tranceguy1 If it ain't broke don't fix it...

but its been broke since 2000

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Originally posted by Floorfiller but its been broke since 2000

How to make a trainwreck by yours truly.

Re: Re: What do you mean by trainwreck?

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on the left you might see a copy of Andain - Beautiful Things.... on the Right, A copy of White Room- White Room...

Fooking hillarious

every dj trainwrecks now and again - not always down to a lack of technical skill from the dj, other factors can be record skipping (due to some crazed monkey jumping up and down right infront of the dj booth), bad monitors/soundsystem or through being coked up to the eyeballs / pissed as a fart :-)

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Originally posted by ga11agher every dj trainwrecks now and again...

Or in Oakenfold's case again and agian...

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery How to make a trainwreck by yours truly.

Subtle, but I guess the thread starter can learn from this

Re: Re: What do you mean by trainwreck?

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Originally posted by Ian^ on the left you might see a copy of Andain - Beautiful Things.... on the Right, A copy of White Room- White Room...

lol that was brilliant

heheh i love PVD but his mixing isnt all that great...listen to the loveparade 2003 set....its short but has like 3 mistakes....wouldnt say trainwrecks but 3 good clear mistakes. anyway i would go as far as to say that John Digweed is da man of mixolog.

No one is saying that Tiesto is better than PvD. What is being said is that PvD DOES trainwreck and I've heard it in several sets (I'm trying to find them...but there is soooo many). All DJ's will trainwreck occasionally, it happens, big deal. It's DJ's who consistently do it that are bad and Tiesto and PvD don't do it on a gig by gig basis.

Now if you want to talk real technical skills then go ahead and look no further than John Digweed and Nick Warren...crisp, clean transitions with grace and style.

We're talking about trainwrecking. In my opinion Tiesto trainwrecks occasionally - not very often. And when he does, it's not too irritating. PVD on the other hand, is a brilliant mixer if you ask me. I have seen and heard him live performing, and never 'caught' him on a trainwreck.

IMO Paul van Dyk plays alot of songs that have a soild bass beat thus its just a matter of matching the beats and limits the amount of trainwrecks from occuring. Record A plays .. Boom...Boom...Boom.. whereas Record B plays .Boom...Boom.. Boom as well. Paul's style imo is one of the more easier stlyes to "flow" with. Even if he fucks up its not an " annyoing" fuck up since its just soild base beats moving off." PVD's Style" recently has been typified by his "hard trance" stlye i.e. simple hard beats for intro's and outros and brief light melodies in the middle.

Tiesto and Armin are more pure Trance Dj's Their songs they play have differing base lines and melodies. Thus it more difficult IMO not only to match base lines but also meleodies. The Flow of thier sets becomes more apperent because of the changes in base lines and meleodies. Thus when they fuck up it harsh on the ears because you have clashing meleodies and baselines.

Sasha, DeepDish, Warren, etc. play prog. and house . As a result these records are desigend for long transitions and record over play (i.e two records played o top of each other).The minimal sounds and soild base lines invite this type off play.Simialr affect as PVD but with different sounding music. The slower BPM of this genre also makes a a good dj quickly and unnoticably fix minor errors before they become trainwrecks. Also when you spin prog. and house IMO more emphasis is placed in the technical aspect of spinning since without it prog. and house can be quite boring; as a prog. As a prog DJ you need to constanly add new elements and sounds from other tracks to spice up a quite lame track without.Thus more involment is needed when you DJ as a prog./house DJ. Just look when you seen your favorite prog. or house DJ plays live vs. your fav. trance dj. On the contrary, IMO, trance never has stressed technical skills as much but more track selection and flow( i.e. armin , tiesto, and ppvd are know for the sound they push not their mixing ability as is say Sasha). Thus two cultures and skill sets occur between these two areas.

To spot a trainwreck all you need to do is listen to the music and dance. Once you stop dancing or no longer feel like you can move to the beat or something sounds weird than more likely a trainwreck is happening or is about to happen.

Examples of trainwrecks can be off beats..which produce an obvious double beat which sounds like a train moving over tracks ..its not dancable and sounds sh!tty. Good djs hide when they do this by a) quickly cut out of the transition (.i.e. backspins, or quick cuts) or they kill the base eq from one of the records to minimize the fuck up so the casual listener can not tell.

I also consider trainwrecks to happen when clashing melodies occur. i.e. the transition just sounds weird. Instead it should sound like the sound hasnt stopped and a subtle change has occured in the music. this is by far the worst and most noticable mistake to happen. Tiesto seems to this a bit becuase I think he is just throwing records on rather than thinking about what will harmonically mix well.

Flow means that the entire set makes sense..i.e. It tells a story. One song compliments the next. This imo is what makes a DJ. Otherwise WTF get a cd player at a club. I think this is a CONCEPT foreign to DJ who soely tyry to p;ay for the corwd or for wrong reasons since they are just throwing one track to the next. This is a telling sign of a sh!t dj beciase everyone can buy the same tracks but it s the ordering the timing that make it key. Flow doesnt mean ...Ill play shit tunes until everyone is bored and annoyed and then Ill drop some anthem. I have found teisto and armin sometimes do this.
Excellent example of good flow are: Sasha, Markus Schultz,Ronski Speed,Deep Dish,Digweed,Armin ( 85% of the time atleast). Those PVD lovers check PVD amenisa set (9-13-03) good flow.

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Originally posted by davepiazza PVD's Style" recently has been typified by his "hard trance" stlye

What??

Don't you just love bedroom experts dissing the world's top djs like Tiesto, PvD and Oakenfold. What fuckwits.

When you earn millions producing your own work, play to 1,000s of punters at festivals, parties and raves all around the world on minimal sleep and jetlagged, only for little armchair experts to know better and criticise your skills.

Give me a fucking break.

In my opinion, a trainwreck is a disaster of a set. One or two bad transitions (like the clip that Mr. Mystery provided) usually doesn't make a set a disaster. When you find those bad transitions throughout, then I think you can say it is a trainwreck.

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Originally posted by spec Don't you just love bedroom experts dissing the world's top djs like Tiesto, PvD and Oakenfold. What fuckwits. When you earn millions producing your own work, play to 1,000s of punters at festivals, parties and raves all around the world on minimal sleep and jetlagged, only for little armchair experts to know better and criticise your skills. Give me a fucking break.

TRUE




But to be fair I wasnt talking sh!t about any dj( well my small commetn about tiesto was a very minor thing not like I said he sucked just that he does have sh!tty moments). I just was trying to explain their style and mixing In My Opinion. Just becuase I said PVD spins hard beat music thats easier to mix is not a dis but more just an explanation of the fact. He is still one of my top 10 favorite DJ's

I agree with spec's post. Start talking shi7 when you are on top of Tiesto/PVD/WHOEVER the DJ rankings at x mag.

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Originally posted by davepiazza Record A plays .. Boom...Boom...Boom.. whereas Record B plays .Boom...Boom.. Boom as well.

then record C goes...Boom...Boom...BOOOOOOM...Boom...crack...Boom...Bada...Bing... Boom.

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Originally posted by spec Don't you just love bedroom experts dissing the world's top djs like Tiesto, PvD and Oakenfold. What fuckwits. When you earn millions producing your own work, play to 1,000s of punters at festivals, parties and raves all around the world on minimal sleep and jetlagged, only for little armchair experts to know better and criticise your skills. Give me a fucking break.

This argument appears all the time and it's flimsy. The "best" DJs in the world should be held to the highest standards. That's what makes them the best; without high standards the idea of "best" is meaningless.

The expectations we have of Tiesto, Armin, Paul, Sasha, etc should not be the same as those we have for the local club resident or for mixes in our Promotion forum. Once you get to the top, you don't get to stay there for free. You are expected to put out the best or make way for better. Jetlag and consistent production are part of the job description, not excuses for mediocrity.

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Originally posted by Cobalt Jetlag and consistent production are part of the job description, not excuses for mediocrity.

I'm going to have to butt-in here... Have you ever experienced constant jetlag from heavy traveling, along with the fact that you have to perform nightly?

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Originally posted by Cobalt This argument appears all the time and it's flimsy. The "best" DJs in the world should be held to the highest standards. That's what makes them the best; without high standards the idea of "best" is meaningless. The expectations we have of Tiesto, Armin, Paul, Sasha, etc should not be the same as those we have for the local club resident or for mixes in our Promotion forum. Once you get to the top, you don't get to stay there for free. You are expected to put out the best or make way for better. Jetlag and consistent production are part of the job description, not excuses for mediocrity.

Yeah, but where's your fucking badge that allows you to judge them?

Its like someone thats never gone to school rating a University lecturer's knowledge. Its just silly.

Often expanding the boundaries involves trying new things and ideas, and techniques, and the thought of some dj on stage with a computer bores me to tears, so as long as they are keeping it real whilst playing on vinyl and making it an awesome experience then I'm happy.

I've gotta say that when an awesome dj comes to town I'm too busy dancing, trying to pick up girls and having a kick-ass time to care if the beats aren't perfectly matched. I'm not one of these geeks that downloads every gig every played looking for little mistakes or the people that sit in the corner when an International DJ plays simply listening for the mix rather more than track selection.

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Originally posted by idoru I'm going to have to butt-in here... Have you ever experienced constant jetlag from heavy traveling, along with the fact that you have to perform nightly?

I have experienced heavy jetlag, but it's a bit silly to ask if I had to perform every night, too. You're just making excuses for DJs to get away with fame and fortune for less than others are capable of.

If performance at the decks is affected by travel, a DJ has to make a tradeoff: either earn less money and exposure by adopting a less taxing tour schedule, or take the heat for mixing less than optimally. Same goes for quality of production. It's not up to us as critics to make allowances for poor career management; that's the responsibility of the artist. Our job is to give praise when it is deserved, as well as criticism. It doesn't matter if the artist is Tiesto or Joe Smith in the production forum. Letting top DJs slide with their mixing and/or production is nothing but a disservice to trance, as it lowers standards for the genre as a whole.

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Originally posted by Cobalt I have experienced heavy jetlag, but it's a bit silly to ask if I had to perform every night, too. You're just making excuses for DJs to get away with fame and fortune for less than others are capable of. If performance at the decks is affected by travel, a DJ has to make a tradeoff: either earn less money and exposure by adopting a less taxing tour schedule, or take the heat for mixing less than optimally. Same goes for quality of production. It's not up to us as critics to make allowances for poor career management; that's the responsibility of the artist. Our job is to give praise when it is deserved, as well as criticism. It doesn't matter if the artist is Tiesto or Joe Smith in the production forum. Letting top DJs slide with their mixing and/or production is nothing but a disservice to trance, as it lowers standards for the genre as a whole.

So you aren't happy unless the top DJs perform a perfectly mixed set each time they stand up to perform?

I would say that an awesome thing for the genre as a whole is the technical difficulty in performing on the decks, especially with the type of systems we are talking, and imperfections show a human side to the scene as a whole that alot of people don't appreciate but does exist.

The style you like, well, you might as well have a robot up there mixing, or just get a computer to do it.

You ease off the DJ's schedule and next you will criticise him/her for losing touch with the people. You can never win.

It almost seems fashionable on this board to diss musical artists that are superstars in my book, and this IMO makes the critic look totally idiotic, because they just don't understand what its like.

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