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whilst i sympathise with you mr bagguley it is entirely your own fault. period.

as you know everyone these days downloads mp3s, legally or illegally. you would have thought DJs and labels would be wise to it by now but the same thing happends over and over again.

let me give you an example. i was reading the way out west forums a while back and nick warren (no less) was moaning about people downloading their new album, album that wont be released for another month or so (and this is going back a few months so you can imagine how pissed off he was). im sure theres been more stories, i know the nu nrg remix of the eternal was also leaked months before its release (and this was vandit were talking about, one of the bigeest and most succesful labels). kuffdam & plant were moaning that one of their unreleased mixes of point zero was leaked too etc. you see my point

you have to have some kind of quality control in place. i appreciate that youve sent only 7 vinyls, but bear in mind that even if youve sent a promo to the top 7 DJs in the country there are still ways it can be leaked. all it requires is some guy in a big DJs PR office to rip the vinyl - it takes 10 mins max and the damage is done.

as for "friends" well, you can never be too careful, thats for sure

let me give you one last story to conclude. the other day i emailed a producer who did a remix for one of the balance 00 cds (i wont say who) asking him if his remix was ever going to be released. he said "you can find it on slsk, if not go to this website and download it from there."

i rest my case

I think all three parties are to "blame".
First off, sending promos to djs that you cant rely on 100% is your responsibility and is solely up to you to look after.
Secondly, the uploader is spreading copyrighted material which is a crime.
Thirdly, the guy downloading is commiting a crime and is also to blame. Its not "okay" to download tracks and blame it on the guy that made it avaible.

But to visit this and possibly other forums and post threads naming people arent going to give you anything else then bad PR and i dont think you want that. Its not a very professional thing to do.

quote:

Originally posted by mike_stefan69 whilst i sympathise with you mr bagguley it is entirely your own fault. period. as you know everyone these days downloads mp3s, legally or illegally. you would have thought DJs and labels would be wise to it by now but the same thing happends over and over again. let me give you an example. i was reading the way out west forums a while back and nick warren (no less) was moaning about people downloading their new album, album that wont be released for another month or so (and this is going back a few months so you can imagine how pissed off he was). im sure theres been more stories, i know the nu nrg remix of the eternal was also leaked months before its release (and this was vandit were talking about, one of the bigeest and most succesful labels). kuffdam & plant were moaning that one of their unreleased mixes of point zero was leaked too etc. you see my point you have to have some kind of quality control in place. i appreciate that youve sent only 7 vinyls, but bear in mind that even if youve sent a promo to the top 7 DJs in the country there are still ways it can be leaked. all it requires is some guy in a big DJs PR office to rip the vinyl - it takes 10 mins max and the damage is done. as for "friends" well, you can never be too careful, thats for sure let me give you one last story to conclude. the other day i emailed a producer who did a remix for one of the balance 00 cds (i wont say who) asking him if his remix was ever going to be released. he said "you can find it on slsk, if not go to this website and download it from there." i rest my case

What should he do then? Not promote the track at all?

And as for that last story, that was probably about a track that was never supposed to be released anyway, or was it? If it was, then that producer would be kind of stupid telling people where to get his tracks for free if they are for sale on vinyl/CD as well, if not, he won't make any money of it anyway, so there's no problem with sharing them on MP3 (just as JameS Holden did with his remixes of Britney)..

quote:

Originally posted by basd What should he do then? Not promote the track at all?

no, of course not. i did not say that at all. i just said he has to have some quality control in who he sends the track to as its so easy for leaks to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by basd And as for that last story, that was probably about a track that was never supposed to be released anyway, or was it? If it was, then that producer would be kind of stupid telling people where to get his tracks for free if they are for sale on vinyl/CD as well, if not, he won't make any money of it anyway, so there's no problem with sharing them on MP3 (just as JameS Holden did with his remixes of Britney)..

i dont know whether the remix was ever supposed to be released, though i suspect not. i was just using the above as an example of the lax attitude of people at all levels within the industry

In an age of technology, where information can be spread across the world in just a few minutes, this is a no win situation...

you could look at it as a good thing tooo... look how many people have in the post by nell in his screen shot..i am sure some of em are leechers and some of em are djs who would by the vinyl and recommend it to others, where if it wasnt spread nobody will know it and hence buy it. take me for example, i hear the track from the hub and i go oh cool, this track would be good in a gig or whatever and buy it. but if it wasnt for the hub, how the hell will i know about it? if it is a quality track you shouldnt have anything to worry about..if it is crap and u dont want people to know then thats another story.

those of you trying to tell andy that its his fault that people are illegally downloading his tunes and promoting themselves with it are retards. If you don't have a copy of the tune legally...you shouldn't be playing it.

i'm with you a 100% on your idea Nell...you gotta weed out the bad seeds.


oh...and i haven't even heard this tune yet hehehe

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller oh...and i haven't even heard this tune yet hehehe

Well thats because it hasnt been released yet and youre not a mooch.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller those of you trying to tell andy that its his fault that people are illegally downloading his tunes and promoting themselves with it are retards. If you don't have a copy of the tune legally...you shouldn't be playing it. i'm with you a 100% on your idea Nell...you gotta weed out the bad seeds. oh...and i haven't even heard this tune yet hehehe

here is something funny..if it wasnt for the internet or TA i would have never heard of andy baggeuely (sp?) the internet is a double edged sword. u live by the sword and die by the sword.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic here is something funny..if it wasnt for the internet or TA i would have never heard of andy baggeuely (sp?) the internet is a double edged sword. u live by the sword and die by the sword.

you know what though. there is a difference between dling a tune before it is set to be released for your own listening enjoyment and dling it and then using it in a online broadcast or a promotional mix. i think that is the problem we're talking about. as andy said...

quote:

Originally posted by bagguley Hits..Nail..Head!!! That is exactly the point... I fully agree... I don't care if people get our tunes, think "thats good, i'll buy it".. but unfortuantely they don't...

people listening to the track and then deciding to purchase it is not a problem, but people shouldn't be using the track to promote themselves as dj's until they have actually purchased it.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller you know what though. there is a difference between dling a tune before it is set to be released for your own listening enjoyment and dling it and then using it in a online broadcast or a promotional mix. i think that is the problem we're talking about. as andy said... people listening to the track and then deciding to purchase it is not a problem, but people shouldn't be using the track to promote themselves as dj's until they have actually purchased it.

yeah i agree with that point..but like everything else there is always those bad apples. dont think there is much we can do about it.

ERM....

Regarding the comments made above about Kuffdam & Plant moaning about a leaked track? Not true....

Neither myself or Plant have ever complained on this forum regarding a track being leaked or not.... we accept it...

Nothing can be done to stop the advance of mp3 accross the world and to be totally honest with you, with out this technology we simply wouldn't be working with each other.

Kuffdam & Plant are base 1000's of miles apart and rely on this technology in order to maintain a working relationship that we have and are used to.....

With regards that track being leaked.... the track was doing nothing anyway so why would we complain. I would rather people heard it, used it and did what they liked with it rather than it remain on my hard drive for ever more.... that said, we weren't the people behind the leak but as long as you give out demo's... people will leak tracks...

MP3's are here to stay, you can't ignore than...

Kuff

quote:

Originally posted by Kuffdam ERM.... Regarding the comments made above about Kuffdam & Plant moaning about a leaked track? Not true.... Neither myself or Plant have ever complained on this forum regarding a track being leaked or not.... we accept it... Nothing can be done to stop the advance of mp3 accross the world and to be totally honest with you, with out this technology we simply wouldn't be working with each other. Kuffdam & Plant are base 1000's of miles apart and rely on this technology in order to maintain a working relationship that we have and are used to..... With regards that track being leaked.... the track was doing nothing anyway so why would we complain. I would rather people heard it, used it and did what they liked with it rather than it remain on my hard drive for ever more.... that said, we weren't the people behind the leak but as long as you give out demo's... people will leak tracks... MP3's are here to stay, you can't ignore than... Kuff

when i read one of your past threads regarding point zero it seemed like you were moaning at the time when in fact you werent. so i apologise.

So much for doing it for the sake of art. All he cares about are the dollar signs.

Aren't there legal consequences for braodcasting/playing music you do not legally own as a DJ?

-Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast So much for doing it for the sake of art. All he cares about are the dollar signs.

dude, fuck that... if you invested your hard time and money into it and were trying to support yourself and/or your famiily, you would understand where he is coming from.

i truthfully have no problem with people dling music to "sample" the song, but i strongly support buying music to support the artist... i have spent over 6,000 dollars just this past year in music.

-keith

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast So much for doing it for the sake of art. All he cares about are the dollar signs.

it's important for the release to at least break even, forget making a profit, nobody on earth would release a vinyl if they intended to make a loss on it, it's not good business in any terms

Not all producers are rolling in riches.

quote:

Originally posted by keithos27 dude, fuck that... if you invested your hard time and money into it and were trying to support yourself and/or your famiily, you would understand where he is coming from.

I would get a real job then in addition to DJing/ producing. Most DJs don't have a schedule as busy as sasha or pvd for that matter, I'm sure there's some spare time for another job.

quote:

Originally posted by Azz3D I would get a real job then in addition to DJing/ producing. Most DJs don't have a schedule as busy as sasha or pvd for that matter, I'm sure there's some spare time for another job.

Smart move in editing your post.

Like others have said, you must take a share of the blame as well, because it was your label that put the promo copy into the ripper's hands to begin with. Unless you keep your track completely locked away until its release, you run the risk of it being leaked. That may not be fair, but that's just the way things work. Of course, the ripper is the real one to blame.

As for downloaders, this is the filesharing age, there's simply no way around it. But I honestly beleive that mp3s help the industry a lot. It's pretty much free exposure. People who would have otherwise never heard the track might hear it, like it, and go buy it. They might not like it enough to buy it then, but whenever that artist/label puts out another release it might grab their attention and they'll buy that one.

It was mp3 sharing that introduced me to EDM. Prior to then, I never really bought any CDs because there weren't any that I cared for here in Bumfuck, USA. But thanks to filesharing, I'm now hooked on this crazy computer music. I've bought many more CDs in the past few years than I have in my entire life. I've also plunked down about $1200 on turntables and $700-800 total on vinyl, which I buy on a regular basis. The industry wouldn't have seen one cent from me if it wasn't for rampant mp3 sharing.

How do you know DJ Celica wouldn't have been first in line at the record store to buy it the day it came out? It's unfair to assume that everyone who downloads doesn't buy. I've been rocking my mp3 copy of James Zabiela - Alive for 2 weeks now. Just came out in the US today. After I post this I'm going to check my bank acct, then swing over to Amazon and pick it up.

The real theives are DJs who download tracks, burn them, and then spin them at gigs for profit. But I see nothing wrong with kids in their bedrooms downloading tracks and mixing them in traktor to share with their buddies.

The real problem here is lack of alternative. It's unrealistic to expect the average joe listener to purchase vinyl these days. Most don't even own turntables. Companies like BeatPort are already leading the way - if more would follow suit, sharing would be less of an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie Smart move in editing your post.

quote:

Originally posted by Nell i just did a quick search, seems like the track is in massive circulation now... i think you have too much trust in your promo list DJ's.

off topic:
lol, i recognise mostve the names airbrushed out here
i think i need to get out more

quote:

Originally posted by mentalbarter off topic: lol, i recognise mostve the names airbrushed out here i think i need to get out more

Maybe that was the intent?

quote:

Originally posted by nrjizer Like others have said, you must take a share of the blame as well, because it was your label that put the promo copy into the ripper's hands to begin with. Unless you keep your track completely locked away until its release, you run the risk of it being leaked. That may not be fair, but that's just the way things work. Of course, the ripper is the real one to blame. As for downloaders, this is the filesharing age, there's simply no way around it. But I honestly beleive that mp3s help the industry a lot. It's pretty much free exposure. People who would have otherwise never heard the track might hear it, like it, and go buy it. They might not like it enough to buy it then, but whenever that artist/label puts out another release it might grab their attention and they'll buy that one. It was mp3 sharing that introduced me to EDM. Prior to then, I never really bought any CDs because there weren't any that I cared for here in Bumfuck, USA. But thanks to filesharing, I'm now hooked on this crazy computer music. I've bought many more CDs in the past few years than I have in my entire life. I've also plunked down about $1200 on turntables and $700-800 total on vinyl, which I buy on a regular basis. The industry wouldn't have seen one cent from me if it wasn't for rampant mp3 sharing. How do you know DJ Celica wouldn't have been first in line at the record store to buy it the day it came out? It's unfair to assume that everyone who downloads doesn't buy. I've been rocking my mp3 copy of James Zabiela - Alive for 2 weeks now. Just came out in the US today. After I post this I'm going to check my bank acct, then swing over to Amazon and pick it up. The real theives are DJs who download tracks, burn them, and then spin them at gigs for profit. But I see nothing wrong with kids in their bedrooms downloading tracks and mixing them in traktor to share with their buddies. The real problem here is lack of alternative. It's unrealistic to expect the average joe listener to purchase vinyl these days. Most don't even own turntables. Companies like BeatPort are already leading the way - if more would follow suit, sharing would be less of an issue.

i agree, i think that myself, like many people, WILL buy a good tune on vinyl regardless of whether they have the mp3 or not.
i havent heard this track that bagguley is on about (i dont listen to trance anymore), but if its amazing ill buy it. if i was listening to trance id buy even if it wasnt that amazing to use as a filler

however, if the track is shit and doesnt sell thats another issue altogether that cannot be blamed on mp3s

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