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quote:

Originally posted by tieann Shut the fuck up about Dumonde! Make a seperate thread for that shit! This topic is about FRAGMA, not fucking DUMONDE. Duh.

Dude! Chill! You're right! Don't have to get all vocal here!
Fragma is the word... I liked 'Toca's Miracle' with the female vocals based on Toca Me.

quote:

Originally posted by tieann Shut the fuck up about Dumonde! Make a seperate thread for that shit! This topic is about FRAGMA, not fucking DUMONDE. Duh.

This forum is for TRANCE and Not commercial shite written solely for the purpose of being marketed for 12 year old girls, duh.

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Originally posted by Ian^ This forum is for TRANCE and Not commercial shite written solely for the purpose of being marketed for 12 year old girls, duh.

Oh look, one of the elitists I was talking about. And I know this FORUM is dedicated for trance, no shit, but I said that this THREAD wasn't for DUMONDE. What the fuck are you talking about?

Miracle and You are Alive are two slammin club tracks.... I've got some good memories to those tunes....

quote:

Originally posted by tieann Oh look, one of the elitists I was talking about. And I know this FORUM is dedicated for trance, no shit, but I said that this THREAD wasn't for DUMONDE. What the fuck are you talking about?

I know what you said about this thread, but since you've only been here 5 minutes you might not realise that sometimes there are threads which are about artists who are so shit that they digress, it's been happening for years and it's not about to change cos one person complains & starts TALKING like THIS to MAKE a POINT


Fragma were a commercial group, there were some good remixes of toca me, but tocas miracle was a shambles merely made for children and people who don't know anything about the decent artists. While these pieces of shit are selling records & making money, more talented people are struggling to get a deal or seeing their tracks not do as well as they should. When you meet a random person in the street and they ask you what you're into and you say trance, they all say 'like fragma or flip n fill or dj sammy' which is an insult as they don't have a clue, so if we all want to talk shit about people who don't make identical songs just to make money then we shall do so. It does not make us elitist, it just means we're not sheep who listen to a song just because it's on radio or something and we actually dig deeper to discover the real talent

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ I know what you said about this thread, but since you've only been here 5 minutes you might not realise that sometimes there are threads which are about artists who are so shit that they digress, it's been happening for years and it's not about to change cos one person complains & starts TALKING like THIS to MAKE a POINT Fragma were a commercial group, there were some good remixes of toca me, but tocas miracle was a shambles merely made for children and people who don't know anything about the decent artists. While these pieces of shit are selling records & making money, more talented people are struggling to get a deal or seeing their tracks not do as well as they should. When you meet a random person in the street and they ask you what you're into and you say trance, they all say 'like fragma or flip n fill or dj sammy' which is an insult as they don't have a clue, so if we all want to talk shit about people who don't make identical songs just to make money then we shall do so. It does not make us elitist, it just means we're not sheep who listen to a song just because it's on radio or something and we actually dig deeper to discover the real talent

Haha... You told him. I couldn't have said it better.

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ I know what you said about this thread, but since you've only been here 5 minutes you might not realise that sometimes there are threads which are about artists who are so shit that they digress, it's been happening for years and it's not about to change cos one person complains & starts TALKING like THIS to MAKE a POINT Fragma were a commercial group, there were some good remixes of toca me, but tocas miracle was a shambles merely made for children and people who don't know anything about the decent artists. While these pieces of shit are selling records & making money, more talented people are struggling to get a deal or seeing their tracks not do as well as they should. When you meet a random person in the street and they ask you what you're into and you say trance, they all say 'like fragma or flip n fill or dj sammy' which is an insult as they don't have a clue, so if we all want to talk shit about people who don't make identical songs just to make money then we shall do so. It does not make us elitist, it just means we're not sheep who listen to a song just because it's on radio or something and we actually dig deeper to discover the real talent

You know what, I don't give a shit if you think that Fragma and other "commercial" trance acts don't have real talent, because they do. They are trance too, like it or not. They just have more of a commerical edge, a pop edge, whatever you decide it may be. And everyone, EVERYONE tries to make it big comercially, so why blame them for doing a good job at that? And Fragma is trance, maybe not the type you listen to, but the type I listen to. And to me, if there are some people who are struggling so hard but still can't make it commercially, then more than likely they are the ones without the real talent.

This post made me laugh.

quote:

Originally posted by tieann You know what, I don't give a shit if you think that Fragma and other "commercial" trance acts don't have real talent

Obviously you care, why else did you even respond?

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, because they do.

No they don't. All their sounds are synth presets and the tracks are mostly recycled from other tunes. That's not talent.

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They are trance too, like it or not. They just have more of a commerical edge, a pop edge, whatever you decide it may be.

No they aren't. They are eurodance.

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And everyone, EVERYONE tries to make it big comercially, so why blame them for doing a good job at that? And Fragma is trance, maybe not the type you listen to, but the type I listen to. And to me, if there are some people who are struggling so hard but still can't make it commercially, then more than likely they are the ones without the real talent.

Trying to make it big commercially doesn't mean making music for the sole purpose of making money. Cheese acts like Fragma have no musical credibility whatsoever, their tunes have no depth. It's like bubblegum - tastes great at first but quickly loses it and it gets bland. And in the end your jaws start to hurt if you chew on it for too long.
And please, are you honestly saying the people who sell the most are the most talented ones? Do you really consider Britney Spears the most talented person in the world?
We live in a fast food world where people want instant pleasure. Hence the most easily accessible music is the most listened one. That's why the artists with real talent don't usually rise to the top - their music is too complicated, it doesn't offer instant pleasure. Have you ever wondered why the pop acts appear and disappear so quickly?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Trying to make it big commercially doesn't mean making music for the sole purpose of making money. Cheese acts like Fragma have no musical credibility whatsoever, their tunes have no depth. It's like bubblegum - tastes great at first but quickly loses it and it gets bland. And in the end your jaws start to hurt if you chew on it for too long. And please, are you honestly saying the people who sell the most are the most talented ones? Do you really consider Britney Spears the most talented person in the world? We live in a fast food world where people want instant pleasure. Hence the most easily accessible music is the most listened one. That's why the artists with real talent don't usually rise to the top - their music is too complicated, it doesn't offer instant pleasure. Have you ever wondered why the pop acts appear and disappear so quickly?

Thats a pretty true statement right there. How many 1-hit wonders are there? COuntless, because they bank on cheesy formulaic drivel that, astonishly, works

Fragma - toca me (inpetto remix) is gewd.

quote:

Originally posted by shr00mz Fragma - toca me (inpetto remix) is gewd.

only cos mauro got his hands on it

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ only cos mauro got his hands on it

Mauro was part of In Petto?

Always wondered who that act was.

I love that remix too, the moment where the build ends and the track fades into the break is still the most beautiful moment in trance... actually *dance* music... that I've ever heard. Turned an average tune into a timeless classic

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra Mauro was part of In Petto?

I don't have proof but the sounds are too similar, bassline etc, and there is a lot of rumours that he was part of it, so I'm just going by common assumption until proved either way

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra Mauro was part of In Petto? Always wondered who that act was. I love that remix too, the moment where the build ends and the track fades into the break is still the most beautiful moment in trance... actually *dance* music... that I've ever heard. Turned an average tune into a timeless classic

I've never heard the In Petto remix but yea I've heard it was amazing, I do like the original Toca Me very much and Toca's Miracle even more so. And yes I'll admit, Fragma are cheesy and they are commercial. But they are still one of my favorites. That's the type of music I like. You would call the rest of my favorite EDM artists cheesy & commercial too (and those would be Orion Too, Astroline, Kelly Llorenna, Darude), which I'll admit, but that doesn't necessarily make them talentless. It just makes them know what they know will be a hit. You cant blame them for trying to make it.

paul van dyk isnt trance

paul van dyk isnt trance

quote:

Originally posted by sikrav paul van dyk isnt trance

then what is he?

I suppose DJ Alligator is?

... and the legend continues.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Obviously you care, why else did you even respond? No they don't. All their sounds are synth presets and the tracks are mostly recycled from other tunes. That's not talent.

Is this so?

If you take a deeper look behind FRAGMA you find the producers Ramon Zenker and the Duderstadt Brothers. Both are repspected artists and everybody who knows a bit of music, know they are for sure talented. Ramons projects like Hardfloor, Exit E, Da Damn Phreak Noize Funk, Mega Lo Mania, Phenomania, ... are real dance classics and even the younger Duderstadt brothers are known for there release as Duderstadt and Davy van Eynde ... (played from Armin and all other big trance DJs).

Of course Fragma is a more commercial project and if you wanna make commercial music it has to be "easy". Think it's nothing wrong on this making some money. Only because you have a commercial project don't mean directly you have no talend or make it ONLY for the money. If you make a living of making music you have to see that you earn some money. Think here with Fragma it is a good example that commercial means not directly "without talend" or "one hit wonder"!

quote:

Originally posted by Cream21 Is this so? If you take a deeper look behind FRAGMA you find the producers Ramon Zenker and the Duderstadt Brothers. Both are repspected artists and everybody who knows a bit of music, know they are for sure talented. Ramons projects like Hardfloor, Exit E, Da Damn Phreak Noize Funk, Mega Lo Mania, Phenomania, ... are real dance classics and even the younger Duderstadt brothers are known for there release as Duderstadt and Davy van Eynde ... (played from Armin and all other big trance DJs). Of course Fragma is a more commercial project and if you wanna make commercial music it has to be "easy". Think it's nothing wrong on this making some money. Only because you have a commercial project don't mean directly you have no talend or make it ONLY for the money. If you make a living of making music you have to see that you earn some money. Think here with Fragma it is a good example that commercial means not directly "without talend" or "one hit wonder"!

Well then I'll be proud not to know anything about music.

Just because their other projects would be credible doesn't mean Fragma would be any more talented or creative. It's just a simple cash-in project of a few greedy producers.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Well then I'll be proud not to know anything about music. Just because their other projects would be credible doesn't mean Fragma would be any more talented or creative. It's just a simple cash-in project of a few greedy producers.

Seriously... artists at one point or another must sell their soul to make money. You shouldnt call someone greedy because they want to make money, shit, am I greedy because I go to work every morning?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Well then I'll be proud not to know anything about music. Just because their other projects would be credible doesn't mean Fragma would be any more talented or creative. It's just a simple cash-in project of a few greedy producers.

What do you wanna make then? If you wanna make a commercial dance track it has to be easy, simple melody, catchy vocals .. thats the recepy for a commercial track. Sure that for this you don't have to be that creative.

Don't wanna say that the Fragma project is a world wonder in creativity. But what helps you all your creativity when in the end of the month there is no money on your account to have a living and to make creative music?

What I wanna say is that I think it's more then legal if creative producers once in a while making also a commercial track that they also earn some money. Especially today where 50% of the people who own a creative and cool track have it illegal as mp3?

So bevor you judge over artists / producers maybe take first a look on the background, here especially the Fragma producers done a lot of the music scene so I grant them there commercial success.

well, there actually were some good fragma tracks like "Toca's Miracle", "Everytime you need me" (especially the Above & Beyond Remix!!) or "You Are Alive"

But also many of their productions, like man in the moon ( ) were pure shit

quote:

Originally posted by Cream21 If you take a deeper look behind FRAGMA you find the producers Ramon Zenker and the Duderstadt Brothers. Both are repspected artists and everybody who knows a bit of music, know they are for sure talented. Ramons projects like Hardfloor, Exit E, Da Damn Phreak Noize Funk, Mega Lo Mania, Phenomania, ... are real dance classics and even the younger Duderstadt brothers are known for there release as Duderstadt and Davy van Eynde ... (played from Armin and all other big trance DJs).

iknow ramon did great work in the past but when he decided to produce crap like he did with fragma, paffendorf & bellini, he decided to go with the cash instead of good creative & uncheesy music. i still won't forgive ramon of butchering cafe del mar but luckily he has gone with his sences and started to make tracks like hardfloor again with olivies, thank god

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