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My humble opinion: the lesson of listing and playing unreleased tracks could have been done without personally linking Alec's incident.

As for Alec....if it was a rip from another set, that's weak. NEVER cut and paste parts of other peoples sets. Secondly, I do not claim to have never used promo CDR stock, however I wait until it is at least on vinyl test presses from the shops if I do not have the producers prior consent. At the very least, if you are compelled to use pre-pressed promo material that is not on vinyl....label it UNKNOWN so people cannot trainspot and pirate it further.

It was a mistake but not the end of the world. Lesson learned

Aaron Mossey

stupid yes... getting busted by Max Graham himself yes... is alec the first TA to do it?


You could probably find dozens of people doing the same thing in amateur DJ forums...

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Originally posted by Form&Funktion My humble opinion: the lesson of listing and playing unreleased tracks could have been done without personally linking Alec's incident. As for Alec....if it was a rip from another set, that's weak. NEVER cut and paste parts of other peoples sets. Secondly, I do not claim to have never used promo CDR stock, however I wait until it is at least on vinyl test presses from the shops if I do not have the producers prior consent. At the very least, if you are compelled to use pre-pressed promo material that is not on vinyl....label it UNKNOWN so people cannot trainspot and pirate it further. It was a mistake but not the end of the world. Lesson learned Aaron Mossey

well said Aaron

Alec is taking the criticism and cheap shots very well actually... I give him major props for that!

there's absolutely nothing wrong with playing burned cds with mp3s... many record shops have converted to selling strictly mp3s, and also its so much easier for producers to send around their promos to djs in cd or mp3 format...

the only issue associated with that is whether the copy you receive is legit...

quote:

Originally posted by Form&Funktion At the very least, if you are compelled to use pre-pressed promo material that is not on vinyl....label it UNKNOWN so people cannot trainspot and pirate it further.

WERD!

Any of you that think Alec is not in the wrong need to check your head.

If DJs (i.e. Max Graham) want tracks to be played by other DJs, they will release them (remember how long it took for Traffic to be released?).

DJs get recognition when they're starting out by sharing their promo sets. So what happens when someone likes what Alec did to this track, and now follows him around to any gigs he might get just to hear him spin? He's getting undue and unjust recognition for a track that never should have been ripped from a set.

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Originally posted by TranceGeek there's absolutely nothing wrong with playing burned cds with mp3s... many record shops have converted to selling strictly mp3s, and also its so much easier for producers to send around their promos to djs in cd or mp3 format... the only issue associated with that is whether the copy you receive is legit...

i highly doubt that any dj that plays out regularly uses mp3 cds, and if they do, well, then they are a wanker.

Hey Alec, I'm not here to pass any judgment but rather curious as to the type of repercussion you have suffered from this ordeal?

P.S God only know how many mp3s I have downloaded off the net, having well over 200 CDs burned.

i heard praiseworthy tunes live recently with a very noticeable mp3 glitch in it....i was lauging my ass off, cant remember who but it was at dance valley too, famous dj presumably

I just wonder if people would still be making that big of a deal about had Max no pointed it out. Seems like everyone jumped on the bandwagon. If Max pointed it out it had to be really bad. Yet i'm sure had he not said anything many would have downloaded the mix.

Shit happens. He knows better now....let it go

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Originally posted by Rocco Marge, do you go through EVERY DJ's record crate to see what's been spun as vinyl or as CD? Let alone which CDs are a rip or an original?

that's not the point pierre.

you are totally missing it.

and as a matter of fact, i trust that djs aren't doing anything shady in the mixes they put up for download.

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Originally posted by che I just wonder if people would still be making that big of a deal about had Max no pointed it out.

well actually max fans have been waiting for this track for a while hearing samples of it here and there. so i'm pretty sure that someone would have said something.

I don't think anyone is claiming to be an angel here. Everyone downloads MP3's. The issue here was, a couple of things, the main being the track used was a new track which has not been released on any label yet. Therefore, you really had no legit way at all to have obtained that. Once it's released, it's anyone's game. Did you buy it, did you download it, one can only guess at this point. So as StereoPrincess mentioned, you now give everyone the benefit of the doubt and that they are in fact using "legit" copies when making new mixes and passing them around (not just to friends but to the general public).

Now, whether he claimed it was new vinyl (or according to the DJ, it was worded wrong and he didn't mean to convey that) not really the issue at hand.

Was this track actually the full thing or a set rip? I don't know personally, I think someone mentioned earlier that it was a set rip. If it was, bad idea, I don't think anyone needs to be told that either, thought that was fairly obvious myself.

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Originally posted by Rocco many many DJs on this board do that. Do i see you pointing the finger at each other and talk a load of bullshit? Problem is YES I DO. you tranceaddicts are full of it. SUPPORT THOSE WHO SUPPORT YOU. if Max had a problem with it, he should have contacted Alec personally. Besides, Gamma, you have more sense than that. You didn't have to point out Alec's mistake. We've all heard about it already. so what? Shit happens, u don't need to make him hate his life.

quote:

Originally posted by che I just wonder if people would still be making that big of a deal about had Max no pointed it out. Seems like everyone jumped on the bandwagon. If Max pointed it out it had to be really bad. Yet i'm sure had he not said anything many would have downloaded the mix. Shit happens. He knows better now....let it go

What che said

quote:

Originally posted by NuERA i highly doubt that any dj that plays out regularly uses mp3 cds, and if they do, well, then they are a wanker.

sasha, digweed, sander k, lawler, and many, many others ---> wankers????

Just a thought , The only thing that is legal to copy in Mp3 form is things broadcast on the radio, and of course backup copies! Technically copying something from a rradio signal is legal, so then wouldn't using that copy be legal. Technically its more legal than a regularly downloaded MP3, even though all MP3's here a legal now.

Excerpt from ABC News:

quote:

Making copies of regular radio broadcasts is legal, but it's not clear whether it's legal to record off streaming radio sites, said copyright law expert and Vanderbilt University law professor Steven Hetcher. "Generally, if you go to sites that do streaming audio, there will be terms in the license agreement � that you respect their copyrights and that they don't allow recording," he said.

It is legal to record from radio BUT NOT rebroadcast or present as a seperate entity as you did in the presentation of your set. Anyone can make copies for their own use but the minute you offered it up to other people you crossed the line. You'd be best to let it drop and not try to justify it.

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Originally posted by NuERA i highly doubt that any dj that plays out regularly uses mp3 cds, and if they do, well, then they are a wanker.

I've been using them lately. Just because a CDR was obtained from mp3 copies of tracks does not mean that they are illegal. Labels have been selling MP3s for some time and if I paid for them, I think I am allowed to be using them.

I would restate what you have as anyone who uses illegal MP3 CDs is a wanker. I think we need to be clear on where the line is drawn.

quote:

Originally posted by Form&Funktion Excerpt from ABC News: It is legal to record from radio BUT NOT rebroadcast or present as a seperate entity as you did in the presentation of your set. Anyone can make copies for their own use but the minute you offered it up to other people you crossed the line. You'd be best to let it drop and not try to justify it.

I read this turned around and picked up the first vinyl I saw. Arabian Pleasure. Here's an exert from the copyrights labelled on the vinyl itself. "All Rights of the producer and of the owner of the work reproduced reserved. Unauthorised Copying, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting of this record prohibited."

So does that mean that any dj that plays material at a gig that isn't his/her own is illegally playing music. There defintely needs to be some clarification in the music industry.

quote:

Originally posted by alec I read this turned around and picked up the first vinyl I saw. Arabian Pleasure. Here's an exert from the copyrights labelled on the vinyl itself. "All Rights of the producer and of the owner of the work reproduced reserved. Unauthorised Copying, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting of this record prohibited." So does that mean that any dj that plays material at a gig that isn't his/her own is illegally playing music. There defintely needs to be some clarification in the music industry.

LOL. That's rediculous. So you can't do a gig with music that you don't own? Something's very confusing here.

Alec, you've made some good points. Really, the entire industry is messed, and the rules are rediculously undefined. I never understood how posting ANY sets online is legal, unless they contain all your own tracks.

Do DJs like Matt Darey, GTR, etc who put out consistent promo mixes available for download online actually go and get permission from every single artist? Do radio shows like ASOT or Essential Mix get permission for every track? Do the artists get royalties for every download/listener?

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So does that mean that any dj that plays material at a gig that isn't his/her own is illegally playing music. There defintely needs to be some clarification in the music industry.

No, most clubs, bars and pubs in Canada acquire a Live Performance license called a SOCAN license allowing for broadcast of copyrighted music material in a live or broadcast setting. THis is the law...now, how many adhere to that is up for debate but the regulation is clear and present.

Please read the following....it addresses your question directly:

https://www.socan.ca/jsp/en/about/faq/licensors.jsp

The laws are not that unclear if you actually take a minute to look at them

I agree; internet radio is still rather undefined in terms of copyright...but that drifts from the point of this thread. Music was presented that has not even been released on authorized vinyl test press...thus regardless of copyright interpretation, it was the wrong thing to do.

Had Max released it in full to that effect, I can tell you, most certianly that he would have had no issue....it was that it was not even a full finished version, but a rip from someone elses set whom he DID give a full version with rights to play. This not only takes from the producer but from the performance of another artist and if not illegal, very unethical as a DJ.

Yes Armin, Digweed, Sasha play CDR stock but I can garuntee the producers have given them personal authorization and copies for promotion via their status and international audience range. THat is why Max eludes to the fact he did not give Alec a copy....because copies WERE sent out to select artists Max gave authorization to in CDR format, not ripped tunes from other artists sets which he rightfully took issue with.

I know about SOCAN, but does it also cover liveset recordings and stuff that get posted on the internet for download? If you don't have permission, then do you need some kind of license to broadcast over the net or put sets on the net available for download?

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