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Originally posted by PIPER_PEURF une tete bruler par l'exc�s de VLAD......

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Originally posted by fastmp3 adieu piper

HAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAH sti que je suis cramper au travail

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Originally posted by Bronze vous avez toute bien raison... come on... vous me d�courager pas mal tous... je suis d�sol� pour vous mais un jour la r�alit� va enfin vous rattrapez... vous n'aurez d'autres choix que de voir la r�alit� en face... BUSH � raison

open your mind a little. don't just believe something because you want to. at least explore the possibilities. that kind of attitude is what made it so easy for hitler and other dictators.

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Originally posted by fastmp3 adieu piper

HAHAHAHAH,true dat,thats some funny stuff.


sept 11 wasnt only a money thing, cause for money,they just have to kill all the rappers and take their money, it would be dick cheney's pleasure to do that.Anyways, its the richest nation in the world...with a 3000+ billion dollars total of debt.

I must say i find more and more details (besides this video) on these attacks that are troubling and that makes me wonder about what was said about it and if its the truth...yeah now i think its total bullsh*t. But from the start,it was just too well planned out,it smelled fishy,but since we've been threw this a couple of times and everytime i post,its like im writting a thesis and nobody reads it at the end,i will abstain myself of any further comments on that part of the subject.

Final thoughts: i predict a civil war in the states/war upon their territory, they just can expect to continue like that and constantly "hide the truth".

Alright, I hate to burst everyone's conspiracy bubble, but PLEASE, stop it. The WTC towers and the pentagon were both destroyed by civilian aircrafts that were hijacked by Al-Quaeda and rammed into these buildings. There are so many conspiracy theories out there on the net it's sickening. If you want me to spend hours debuking this, I'll do it to prove a point but I hardly think this is necessary. Check these links out for starters.

Pentagon

Article honouring Pentagon victims

The point I'm trying to make is simple. Beliefs should be based on the most reliable evidence we have, not on some irrational emotive reason such as hate, fear, faith or the like. Simply because we hate the States, believe they are capitalist pigs and so forth is not a rational justification to believe that 9/11 was made up. Under scrutiny and the most reliable evidence we have, none of these conspiracy theories are even worth considering.

I hate to say it but Bronze is right in this instance. Vous perdez la tete les amis

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Originally posted by Bronze vous avez toute bien raison... come on... vous me d�courager pas mal tous... je suis d�sol� pour vous mais un jour la r�alit� va enfin vous rattrapez... vous n'aurez d'autres choix que de voir la r�alit� en face... BUSH � raison

Yeah

That's probably why he lied about the Mass destruction arms and about the link between al-quaida and Hussein !

KrinKer

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Originally posted by Epicurus Alright, I hate to burst everyone's conspiracy bubble, but PLEASE, stop it. The WTC towers and the pentagon were both destroyed by civilian aircrafts that were hijacked by Al-Quaeda and rammed into these buildings. There are so many conspiracy theories out there on the net it's sickening. If you want me to spend hours debuking this, I'll do it to prove a point but I hardly think this is necessary. Check these links out for starters. Pentagon Article honouring Pentagon victims The point I'm trying to make is simple. Beliefs should be based on the most reliable evidence we have, not on some irrational emotive reason such as hate, fear, faith or the like. Simply because we hate the States, believe they are capitalist pigs and so forth is not a rational justification to believe that 9/11 was made up. Under scrutiny and the most reliable evidence we have, none of these conspiracy theories are even worth considering. I hate to say it but Bronze is right in this instance. Vous perdez la tete les amis

Yeah, i dont think they'd be crazy enough to kill 3000+ people...but let it happen "for the good of the country",thats a maybe for me,and thats another subject,they're were too much clues not to have an idea of what was gonna happen,maybe not when,but what,preparation could and should have been made in such cases.

Johnny,
I'm glad you agree that "they" didn't do it...as for them letting it happen, again, I must disagree...what do you base this on except some vague notion of "better for the country"...do you have any facts or empirical evidence to support this?

On the other hand, we do know for a fact that there was a massive intelligence failure based on all the interviews conducted post 9/11, the 9/11 commission report and so forth. The conclusion was that pre-9/11, the CIA was an incredibly inefficient organization, that US intelligence was in a state of disarray and that they basically botched the pooch on this one.

I don't disagree for one second with anyone that says that Bush used, abused and manipulated 9/11 after it happened for his own and his neo-con friends' vested interets, not to mention to instill fear in every American's mind. But if you want to make as contentious a point as "they let it happen", you had better have some VERY convincing evidence to back up your point.

thank you Epicurus,

For sure there's some grey areas surrounding the events of the wtc and pentagon attacks but something is sure, Al Qaeda is behind them and there shouldn't be a doubt about it.


I am a proponent of the "simplest explanation" theory.

And in this case, what would be simpler, a vast conspiracy involving hundreds or thousands to destroy the WTC and kill many people by teleguiding planes into the buildings... try to keep their mouth shut during all this time.

OR

An attack planned by a handful of men who hijacked planes to fly them into buildings...

all i have to say is that i just cant imagine how a government could kill that much peiople just to encourage his policies, but hey, arent they hiring people they dont care about such as black people to go kill that dictatorship they want out of Irak?

les gens voient pas que c une gang de chums (incluant la PRESTIGIEUSE famille Bush) qui sont la pour faire du cash
pi quand ben m�me qu'ont leur frait comprendre ca , yen a beaucoup qui diraient : pi? tu frais pas la m�me chose ti si t'avais du pouvoir de m�me???

et la on pourrait embarquer dans une interminable discussion
� savoir qu'il faut abollir les gouvernements ou mettre en place des comit�s charg�s de veiller au bonheur de la plan�te

moi jvote pour le pouvoir aux femmes

we have to face it; women would do a complte makeover of our world that is supposed to be so good and fair for everyone

Malek,
What you're talking about in terms of simplest explanation is Occam's razor, and that's very commonly used in philosophy to choose between competing theories.

HOWEVER, I must add that two important pre-requisites to use this are that both competing theories must do an equally good job at explaining the events at hand and must be supported by reliable evidence. In this case, both theories don't since the theory that "they let it happen" or "they did it" has no reliable evidence in support of it. So the argument that I'm trying to make is stronger, in that we don't even need to use Occam's razor since one pre-requisite is not satisfied.

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Originally posted by Mekroon we have to face it; women would do a complte makeover of our world that is supposed to be so good and fair for everyone

I gotta say.. having female leaders in countries like the U.S, Russia, China would shake things up a bit. It's not like women haven't been ruling other countries, like in Canada (Kim Campbell even though she wasn't actually 'elected and it was 9 months), India, like half a century ago (matriarch society i know) Britain, every Scandinavian country..
At least they probably wouldn't be neo-con gun totting cowboys!

Hillary Clinton in 2008... she'll be on the shortlist of candidates anyway (vp maybe?). And my guess is Rudy Giuliani will be running for the GOP.
and then Jeb Bush in 2012.. ugh

Mekroon,
There is most definitely a difference between rich white bankers and consultants in Wall Street towers who are your power base versus poor young black men without a future

As for women, I actually agree that women should be in power

These days, it's kinda hard to chose a solution or an answer and stick to it, u always have to look at the other possibilities....and 9/11 is a good thing to look at....

believe wot the Americans want you to believe (which could be the truth)
or
believe that there are other things that could have happened on that day?

And finally, to answer all those people that said: Hey, but why would the US allow 3000+ civilians to die just like that?

Well, Pearl Harbor attack, surprise attack? not really, government knew about it before it happened yet didnt do anything against it just to get into war with Japan.....same thing no?

so, was it possible that the US knew about it before it happened? yes
was it possible that the US was part of the attack? possible....

Deejiuana,
I'm not saying it's not possible. There is no absolute certainty when it comes to knowledge and truth. However, there is a best approximation of what is true and what is not, and that is based on good sound empirical evidence. Do you have any of that to share? Relying on a precedent like Pearl Harbour and drawing a weak analogy in the form of an extrapolation does not constitute a valid argument. So it happened then, and it didn't happen now is a perfectly legitimit possibility. Until you have good evidence to support your argument, I think the wiser position to take is to accept the overwhelming evidence that Al-Quaeda was behind the 9/11 attacks.

To give you a simple analogy of what I'm trying to say, think of flying unicorns. Do we know for a fact, in 100% certainty, that flying unicorns don't exist? We really don't, since we can't go around all four corners of the universe to verify this. What we do have at our disposal is certain reliable evidence in the form of perception, scientific laws and so forth which clearly state that there aren't and cannot be flying unicorns. However, they might exist, and this overwhelming evidence might eventually be proven wrong, but until equally reliable contrary evidence is diplayed in support of flying unicorns, the wiser, sane, and common sensical position is to be extremely skeptical about the existence of flying unicorns. In fact, I'm rather sure you don't beleive in them.

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Originally posted by Epicurus Malek, What you're talking about in terms of simplest explanation is Occam's razor, and that's very commonly used in philosophy to choose between competing theories. HOWEVER, I must add that two important pre-requisites to use this are that both competing theories must do an equally good job at explaining the events at hand and must be supported by reliable evidence. In this case, both theories don't since the theory that "they let it happen" or "they did it" has no reliable evidence in support of it. So the argument that I'm trying to make is stronger, in that we don't even need to use Occam's razor since one pre-requisite is not satisfied.

thank you very very much, i had completely forgot the name for this.

also you are right about the pre-requisites. BUT its much simpler to explain it to everyone the way i did without getting in the fancy stuff

damn, i miss my philosophy classes /honnest

Malek le philosophe Syrien

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Originally posted by Epicurus Malek le philosophe Syrien

tu ris, mais le seul A+ que j'ai a l'universite etait un cours de philosophie

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Originally posted by Epicurus Mekroon, There is most definitely a difference between rich white bankers and consultants in Wall Street towers who are your power base versus poor young black men without a future As for women, I actually agree that women should be in power

i think this is the most SCANDALEUX post of all
u should be ban for saying that

who is your base???
people getting u richer or people getting killed for ure damn policies to work???

black men dont have a future cause they dont want them to have one

what proves u that ure right
cant they just go over the limits and kill a few people that are considered more important?? i believe they can
they have no limits
wheter they knew it was coming and didnt do anything about it cause they wanted it to happen
wheter they paid the hoel thing and blamed innocent men (or not that innocent)

but seriously, i prefer someone who is ready to kill himself for his cause to a fukin dirty politician that sends people to do it for him

radicals are the pest of this world and usa surrely has more then the rest of the world

meo, calme toi, tu l'as pas compris.

power base = ceux qui te poussent en politique.

jai tres bien compris

pi moi je crois pas a cette chose qu'est leur politique, I DONT BELIEVE THEY ARE HUMAN TO DO SUCH THINGS

ils ont pas le droit de dire que ca c bien

i dont believe in god, but these days i wish he could send to hell all those CRAZY assholes that are killing the planet

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Originally posted by Mekroon jai tres bien compris pi moi je crois pas a cette chose qu'est leur politique, I DONT BELIEVE THEY ARE HUMAN TO DO SUCH THINGS ils ont pas le droit de dire que ca c bien i dont believe in god, but these days i wish he could send to hell all those CRAZY assholes that are killing the planet

ouais mais attend un peu la, tu va me dire que pour un parti politique qui a besoin de cash pour nourir les reseaux de television, t'est pas mieux d'avoir les gars de wall street pour te backer que la communaute noire???

c'est ca qu'il voulait dire, me semble

Mekroon, t'es trop emotionel lol...anyway, i think you obviously misunderstood me. My statement was made with tongue firmly in cheek. To explain it perhaps more clearly, I meant that from George Bush's perspective, poor black men, with no future because they're being oppressed, are expandable, as opposed to rich white bankers in the WTC towers who constitute Bush's power base (those people who support him politically). The point being that the analogy you made previosuly was not germaine since from Bush's perspective, they're not "worth" the same amount, and thus killing poor black men by sending them to war was a plausable proposal as opposed to killing rich white men who support him politically.

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Originally posted by Epicurus Alright, I hate to burst everyone's conspiracy bubble, but PLEASE, stop it. The WTC towers and the pentagon were both destroyed by civilian aircrafts that were hijacked by Al-Quaeda and rammed into these buildings. There are so many conspiracy theories out there on the net it's sickening. If you want me to spend hours debuking this, I'll do it to prove a point but I hardly think this is necessary. Check these links out for starters. Pentagon Article honouring Pentagon victims The point I'm trying to make is simple. Beliefs should be based on the most reliable evidence we have, not on some irrational emotive reason such as hate, fear, faith or the like. Simply because we hate the States, believe they are capitalist pigs and so forth is not a rational justification to believe that 9/11 was made up. Under scrutiny and the most reliable evidence we have, none of these conspiracy theories are even worth considering. I hate to say it but Bronze is right in this instance. Vous perdez la tete les amis

The articles didnt really address anything. The answers to the questions in the first article really arn't even answered. Haha i love this quote:

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The first section was five days from being finished when the terrorists hit it with the plane.

Here is an interesting website of an organization started by september 11th victims families. This is a true 'honour' to the memory of the victims of september 11th.

http://www.septembereleventh.org/

Read through it and honour the victims by learning about what their families have uncovered.

This 'conspiracy theory' isnt something a couple of geeks invented in their basement. There are whistleblowers popping up all over the country. And as more information comes about and as more questions arise people are starting to take notice.

The movie advertised on the website is a sequel to a movie i have seen called 'the great deception' and goes far more in depth than the one started in this topic. It is two hours long and reiterates the complete impossibility that a 757 ever hit the pentagon. A 757 may have been hijacked but it never hit the pentagon.

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Originally posted by malek I am a proponent of the "simplest explanation" theory. And in this case, what would be simpler, a vast conspiracy involving hundreds or thousands to destroy the WTC and kill many people by teleguiding planes into the buildings... try to keep their mouth shut during all this time. OR An attack planned by a handful of men who hijacked planes to fly them into buildings...

I think most would certainly agree that there was a group of 'terrorists' who organized an attack on the united states. However that doesnt mean all the questions and oddities become invalid. Many people think the government knew about it and purposefully ignored warning signs and consciously allowed the attacks to happen. There is no doubt that a 757 was highjacked but if the pentagon was going to be attacked it's best to make sure it hits the right part. (ie. part uninhabited and under construction for 'structural fortification') Funny too the 757 went off the rader screen and then suddenly reapeared right before it hit the target. (in the shape of a 5-10 man aircraft by 100s of eyewhitness accounts.

boarders, countries, everything concerning government

its all bullshit to me

we should be living on a planet not in Canada or stuff like that
i dont belong to a country i belong to life
life is much more powerfull than what we think we are
one day we will all disappear from the surface of this earth and life will go on like we never existed
we should try to live in a great world instead of trying to kill our neighbor cause we want his oil and because we think is way of living is not correct
its not like i think the rest of the world lives in a decent way, oh no its not like that but at least theyre not trying to implant their way of life here

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tu ris, mais le seul A+ que j'ai a l'universite etait un cours de philosophie

Je t'crois, je t'crois...It's just that I got a visual of you in a greek toga philosophizing amongst us mortals

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