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-- 4 strings = cheese?!?!?!
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I still get asked if I have Diving with me sometimes. I always respond, "No", but I used to love that track. Still love Take Me Away, but it was played out. Got some tracks after Diving that were good, but they weren't vocal tracks and I can't really remember the names of the track. One has something to do with the Sun, Summer Sun or something like that. Their mix of Desire is very good too. Has that Ferris Bueller feel.

They have some stuff that is cheese or borderline cheese, but they have some pretty good work too.

It's kinda cheesy, I agree, but it's a cheese I like. Can't name a favorite though.

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Originally posted by Cobalt 4 Strings rides that rare line between eurotrance cheese and quality. For this accomplishment alone Resoort is brilliant. He has created many memorable and outstanding tracks, while simultanously crossing over to the commercial eurotrance audience with the mere addition of cheesy vocals. This thread really is an interesting litmus test. No, 4 Strings isn't cheese. It's cheese at will. And that takes talent.

That is no litmus test. That's relative comparison. A really bad one. If you can prove that 4 strings isn't cheese because it's not eurodance then I can prove that it is cheese because it's not techno.

Cheddar + sideburns = 4 Strings

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Originally posted by Radagast That is no litmus test. That's relative comparison. A really bad one. If you can prove that 4 strings isn't cheese because it's not eurodance then I can prove that it is cheese because it's not techno.

You misunderstand. I was merely making a string of unsupported observations, not an argument. I wasn't attempting to "prove" or suggest that 4 Strings isn't cheese because Resoort's originals aren't eurotrance.

If you want me to legitimately defend my positive review of his originals, that's a separate discussion.

The "litmus test" I referred to was the reaction toward the question "is 4 Strings cheese?" Anyone can hop on the boat and say yes simply because of the vocal versions. However, I don't think cheese applies to many of his originals, and it's neat to see people misassociate the two in attempt to evalute his work.

Whats so different about the song when theres some vocals on it? I think a lot (not all) of people are just saying its cheese to be cool. Personally I think the vocal versions are alright and I dont think they sound THAT bad compared to the originals...

*insert mandatory cheese picture off google image here*

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Originally posted by AndskiSpeed *insert mandatory cheese picture off google image here*

That's my trademark

As others have said: formulaic, gappy, gash vocals, just doesn't sound like any effort has been put into it...

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Originally posted by fbgdavidson As others have said: formulaic, gappy, gash vocals, just doesn't sound like any effort has been put into it...

that sounds like most trance these days

4 Strings may be cheezy, and we don't like cheezy stuff do we? Hey, I don't like Snickers because they are on TV-commercials.

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Originally posted by Cobalt You misunderstand. I was merely making a string of unsupported observations, not an argument. I wasn't attempting to "prove" or suggest that 4 Strings isn't cheese because Resoort's originals aren't eurotrance. If you want me to legitimately defend my positive review of his originals, that's a separate discussion. The "litmus test" I referred to was the reaction toward the question "is 4 Strings cheese?" Anyone can hop on the boat and say yes simply because of the vocal versions. However, I don't think cheese applies to many of his originals, and it's neat to see people misassociate the two in attempt to evalute his work.

Yeah I see. I guess I just misunderstood. You meant that he's made many tracks that are cheese and quality. Not the seperation of the two as applied to many of his tracks. Or something.

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Originally posted by Radagast Yeah I see. I guess I just misunderstood. You meant that he's made many tracks that are cheese and quality. Not the seperation of the two as applied to many of his tracks. Or something.

No. We have some definitions muddied, which is why you don't see what I'm saying, and in fact probably think it's self-contradictory and stupid:

Cheese (Copied from the Darude poll)
Material produced explicitly for radio play, explicitly for money, and explicitly without seriousness on the part of the producer.

Quality
Fresh, significant, innovative, superior, or otherwise deserving of merit.

For reference, I provide a definition of eurotrance here

Okay, so let me explain what I mean. The original mixes of 4 Strings tracks are not cheese, whereas the vocal mixes are. How often do you hear a vocal 4 Strings track in a set? Almost never. How often do the vocal mixes get played on the radio? Very frequently. The opposite case for the originals is true. The originals versus the vocal mixes are produced with different intentions, for entirely different audiences, each looking for different things out of what they're listening to. It's pretty clear that Resoort produces the vocal alter ego of 4 Strings only to sell albums and get lucrative radio play. You can't say the same of the originals. Like I said, cheese at will. It's truly remarkable that he is able to do this, as I can think of no other production outfit with the same crossover value.

The second point is that the original 4 Strings productions are quality anthem/epic trance. Resoort's work has been one of the few fresh sounds in the genre over the past five years. Virtually every original 4 Strings track release has been memorable and distinctive. That's a remarkable accomplishment given the genre. If you want to take the argument outside of anthem/epic trance, the argument becomes very different because you're judging on a wider standard. Keep in mind what the general intent of anthem trance is: fun, hands-in-the-air stadium music. And Carlos Resoort is one of the masters of the genre, his vocal radio shite notwithstanding.

Yes, some of you probably think I'm insane for writing this all out.
But it's an important distinction to me.

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Originally posted by Cobalt No. We have some definitions muddied, which is why you don't see what I'm saying, and in fact probably think it's self-contradictory and stupid: Cheese (Copied from the Darude poll) Material produced explicitly for radio play, explicitly for money, and explicitly without seriousness on the part of the producer. Quality Fresh, significant, innovative, superior, or otherwise deserving of merit. For reference, I provide a definition of eurotrance here Okay, so let me explain what I mean. The original mixes of 4 Strings tracks are not cheese, whereas the vocal mixes are. How often do you hear a vocal 4 Strings track in a set? Almost never. How often do the vocal mixes get played on the radio? Very frequently. The opposite case for the originals is true. The originals versus the vocal mixes are produced with different intentions, for entirely different audiences, each looking for different things out of what they're listening to. It's pretty clear that Resoort produces the vocal alter ego of 4 Strings only to sell albums and get lucrative radio play. You can't say the same of the originals. Like I said, cheese at will. It's truly remarkable that he is able to do this, as I can think of no other production outfit with the same crossover value. The second point is that the original 4 Strings productions are quality anthem/epic trance. Resoort's work has been one of the few fresh sounds in the genre over the past five years. Virtually every original 4 Strings track release has been memorable and distinctive. That's a remarkable accomplishment given the genre. If you want to take the argument outside of anthem/epic trance, the argument becomes very different because you're judging on a wider standard. Keep in mind what the general intent of anthem trance is: fun, hands-in-the-air stadium music. And Carlos Resoort is one of the masters of the genre, his vocal radio shite notwithstanding. Yes, some of you probably think I'm insane for writing this all out. But it's an important distinction to me.

agrees

Actually I like 4 Strings I wouldn't exactly call them cheese.. but to be honest, I like most cheese stuff. Of course I wouldn't play it out but I'll listen to Milk Inc or something when I'm in the car or whatever

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Originally posted by Cobalt No. We have some definitions muddied, which is why you don't see what I'm saying, and in fact probably think it's self-contradictory and stupid: Cheese (Copied from the Darude poll) Material produced explicitly for radio play, explicitly for money, and explicitly without seriousness on the part of the producer. Quality Fresh, significant, innovative, superior, or otherwise deserving of merit.

And how do you determine whether a track is material produced explicitly for radio play, explicitly for money, and explicitly without seriousness on the part of the producer? Is there any real difference between "eurotrance" and Anthem Trance besides what you percieve to be the intentions of the producers or the amount of popularity one happened to gain over the other? I have a problem with the differentiation between Anthem Trance and this "eurotrance".

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For reference, I provide a definition of eurotrance here

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a) Always has vocals, almost exclusively female ones.

Vocals. I understand that. But Vocals are not exclusive to "eurotrance". Many kinds of music have vocals, including Anthem Trance.

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b) Almost always has no lyrical meaning or depth. Eurotrance songs are endless purmutations of teenage poetry, and freqeuntly contain the words "angel," "love," "sweet," "heaven," "baby," etc.

Not exclusive to "eurotrance".

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c) Are produced almost exclusively with radio play in mind, for the purpose of making money. Very seldom will a eurotrance artist express any serious artistic motivation.

How is this determined?

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d) Often incorporate an off-beat kick, to sound more housey and "bounce around," but still contain the builds, rolls, and supersaws of epic trance.

That's a good definition of Eurodance, which is House...

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e) Perhaps most importantly, never pretends to have any serious intent or meaning behind itself. Eurotrance artists know they are making insipid party music. That's exactly what they're trying to make, because many people want just that out of what they listen to. Epic trance artists, on the other hand, often claim a certain passion or emotional connection with their work.

They are Anthem Trance artists still the same. Whether they consider their music serious or not, that doesn't change what genre their work falls into.

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Artists include Ian van Dahl, Lasgo, Milk Inc., DJ Sammy, Flip & Fill, ATB (his ones with vocals, at least), and so on.

Most of those are known Anthem Trance producers that tranceaddicts feel the need to excersise from the rest of what they listen to because they happen to gain a greater ammount of popularity, and then a magical new genre springs up called "cheese trance" or "eurotrance" or whatever other adjectives they can come up with that seperate those few tracks/artists from the rest of Anthem Trance. Not because they're of less quality or even actually much "cheesier"(read: Darude). And judging music by popularity is not correct. The rest are Eurodance or some other form of cheesy house.

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Originally posted by n0bben- 4 strings sucks. carlo destroyed this alias long time ago

True!

So you like 4 Strings? And you're afraid that it's cheese?
Who cares? As long you like it, why give a f*ck whether it's cheese or not?
I like Ian van Dahl, and that's concidered cheese by many...and I couldn't care less...

Cobalt you're a genius.

If you call tracks like Let It Rain, Diving, their Desire remix and Into the Night cheese you're a dick.

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Originally posted by DJ JEM OMG THE FUCKING E-CRAIG MIX IS THE FUCKING SHIT!

ya done know

Cheese or not, who cares. Doesn't really matter whether it's defined cheese by a small minority or not.
I myself can't really tell, but to be honest i don't really care, i like some of their tracks, where i dislike others

Well I think I need to clarify I wasn't saying the mixes/remixes are cheese by definition that the original was cheese.

I consider Ian Van Dahl cheese (shoot me down!) and although some of the remixes I've heard are superb.

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Originally posted by Cobalt Cheese (Copied from the Darude poll) Material produced explicitly for radio play, explicitly for money, and explicitly without seriousness on the part of the producer.

thats a fair enuff definition but what if the producer's intentions were non of the above and its still cheese ?

Its GOOOOOOOD Cheese Nuff said

some of their stuff is borderline cheezy, like Revelation, but they have come up with some excellent trax like Diving, Besides Us, Summer Sun, Let It Rain, etc.

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Originally posted by nwopper So you like 4 Strings? And you're afraid that it's cheese? Who cares? As long you like it, why give a f*ck whether it's cheese or not? I like Ian van Dahl, and that's concidered cheese by many...and I couldn't care less...

haha no man its not like that i like 4 strings cuz they have good music, but i thnik they get a bit cheesy at times, but it doesn't make them worse i love them just the same, allz i wanted is your guys opinions :P

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Originally posted by dj tek thats a fair enuff definition but what if the producer's intentions were non of the above and its still cheese ?

that nmeans hes a really good producer...seriously, think about it... if he produced a track and its liked by the masses, then due to the commercialism or popularity of this song it automatically gets classified as cheese despite its actual skill and merit it may have as a good trance track...

...thus why rarley are there bad cheese songs but rather they are just songs that are popular to people according to music charts.

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