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-- Zabiela on a budget
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quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Zabiela's style - This style is more discreet. 'Let's see if they notice this' sort of thing. Keep in mind that it still has to sound good. You still have to believe that the song was meant to be that way or think 'Wow, is this a new remix'. Refreshing and different from the usual DJ's and great entertainment. Again more of a DJ's DJ as most people (Average clubber) don't actually know what JZ is famous for, they will just think he is the same as Tiesto etc.

+1

See...i'm not saying Zabiela has no talent for what he does, I am basically saying you people shouldn't be calling it scratching...more like 'efxing' when you say scratching (i've never used a efx500) you mean fooling around with the efx500 unit and moving the jog wheel back and fourth - but thats not scratching!

Brilliant post there Nem. You summed it up perfectly.

quote:

Originally posted by Luke Terry if i remember correctly... its a djm500 in the video, not a 600

if i remember correctly... there a black version of the djm600 also

quote:

Originally posted by Ken_Allen +1 See...i'm not saying Zabiela has no talent for what he does, I am basically saying you people shouldn't be calling it scratching...more like 'efxing' when you say scratching (i've never used a efx500) you mean fooling around with the efx500 unit and moving the jog wheel back and fourth - but thats not scratching!

sorry, efxing is the dumbest fucking name I've ever heard.

It sounds like a scratch, so call it a scratch. Those of us here know what he's really doing, the rest of the people who don't probably don't care, and wouldn't understand if you tried to explain it to them.

I consider it a scratch anyways - it's manipulating the [jog wheel, record, whatever] in order to obtain that special sound. His trick just eliminates the need for the crossfader. If you watch the tricks video that comes with Alive, you'll see him doing it classic style tho with the fader, so whatever.

its all gone a bit off topic.

However my intention was never to actually copy his style, allough i like his imaginative mixing,

like dj chex says, just mixing isnt enough.

I listen back to my sets, and think how bland they sound compared to Zabiela's sets(especially alive) and its not just zabiela, I used to like Halliwell's Bosh Cd's when i really loved trance, i just though his mixing added energy.

Thats what I want to achieve, I want the parts where I am activley mixing to be the parts people want to listen too. I want to include some imagination.


Just out of interest, can any one else comment on the behringer VMX 300's ability to accomodate an EFX500? (i listed why it may not be up to the part in the opening post)

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Interesting debate... And here is my two euros worth Cheers Nem

well said.

quote:

Originally posted by CraSHer[UK] Just out of interest, can any one else comment on the behringer VMX 300's ability to accomodate an EFX500? (i listed why it may not be up to the part in the opening post)

Does it have effects send/recieve?

If not youre kind of screwed. The only way you could use it is to put the effect over all of the sound, which isnt usually what you want to do with echo loops, that trans scratch, and most everything else...

My pcv275 has effects send/recieve, but apparently it doesnt work very well on that model, so I'm worried that getting an efx wont be worth it, because I really have minimal use for it if I can't assign it to individual channels nicely.

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps A mixer, regular turntables, and an efx is all you need. locked grooves.

Most of Zabielas tricks/scrathches need a cd deck you cant do that sort of stuff with "regular turntables"

quote:

Originally posted by First Strike Most of Zabielas tricks/scrathches need a cd deck you cant do that sort of stuff with "regular turntables"

You can if you have the locked groove vinyl that beats and beeps was talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by First Strike Most of Zabielas tricks/scrathches need a cd deck you cant do that sort of stuff with "regular turntables"

You are wrong.


Sorry.

im gonna defend JZ here too... comparing him to a turntabilist would be foolish because although he scratches and is good at it, thats not what makes him a good DJ. anybody remember this?

quote:

'He made me feel sick' was the veteran tech house DJs� verdict on the young upstart he had played with in Europe the week before. It was something to do with the way he attacked the CDJ1000s, scratching into his opening tune, synching up two copies of another, nudging one slightly out of phase for a big flangey effect before slamming the reverse switch on one of the decks for a rhythmically perfect splurge of aural mayhem. It was another good night out down the disco with James Zabiela.

the reason why he is prolly my fav DJ, is because he is different. for the past 3 years i have been listening to digweed and sasha and they do sweet fuck all in their mixes. all of a sudden JZ comes along and hes showing he has the balls to experiment and the results are amazing.

his music may not be to everyones taste, and is not always my kinda stuff but you can never doubt him when it comes to technical ability.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken_Allen +1 See...i'm not saying Zabiela has no talent for what he does, I am basically saying you people shouldn't be calling it scratching...more like 'efxing' when you say scratching (i've never used a efx500) you mean fooling around with the efx500 unit and moving the jog wheel back and fourth - but thats not scratching!

err. i think you are a bit confused. he uses the EFX to mess with tracks/add to his scratching, but... yes, he DOES scratch. he used to scratch on vinyl, just now he's turned all CD. just because it's now on CD, doesn't mean it's not turntablism. just as well, the EFX transform effect was used to eliminate the need to crossfade, so he could have a free hand to tweak it even further, nonetheless, in the ALiVE video, he demonstrates his scratching skills the traditional way as well. i still don't get why you keep saying he does not scratch.

quote:

Originally posted by First Strike Most of Zabielas tricks/scrathches need a cd deck you cant do that sort of stuff with "regular turntables"

yes and no,


yes, because he uses loops on the scratch noises so they never skip or jump,

and no because when he is using a normal scratch tone without any loops, it can be done easily with a turntable.
i just got an airfx, and using the standard *ahhhh* sound and the flanger effect i can create pretty good *zabiela* trademark scratching

I cant beleive that everyone thinks you need a cdj to loop a scratch sample.

There are various records that have the "ahhh" sample in a locked groove. This is the same as a loop, and as long as you have a good cart it should skip anyways.

Ahh hell, if they don't want to believe in locked grooves or skipless battle wax then let them buy a CDJ1000 for the skipless loop function.

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps My pcv275 has effects send/recieve, but apparently it doesnt work very well on that model, so I'm worried that getting an efx wont be worth it, because I really have minimal use for it if I can't assign it to individual channels nicely.

Where did you hear that? I never heard that and I'm about to get an EFX this week

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps I cant beleive that everyone thinks you need a cdj to loop a scratch sample. There are various records that have the "ahhh" sample in a locked groove. This is the same as a loop, and as long as you have a good cart it should skip anyways.

yea there are records that have locked sample/beat

but if you have ever seen Zabelia doing one of his scratches like we are talking about he goes crazy spinnig the cdj back realy fast and in the middle of the spin back throws its foward , no way normal turntables would do that with out skipping

also quickley playing the sample in reverse and then foward on a normal turntable cant be done....

quote:

Originally posted by First Strike also quickley playing the sample in reverse and then foward on a normal turntable cant be done....

that can be achieved by hand, if done correctly. btw, Zabiela rarely does the "crazy spin", he was just smackin' the jogwheel backwards to make a point that it would not skip. in effect, it was a backspin, which you can do quite easily with vinyl.

the things you can't do with a normal deck that Zabiela does with the CDJ when it's time to pull out the turntablism tricks are: start/brake adjustment, use of 100% pitch, use of master tempo, and the facility of a cue point at the touch of a button.

with the EFX, DJM600, a locked groove with a sample, you could basically do almost every single thing he does, on vinyl.

which brings me to a question. i have a hip hop track. i have another hip hop track. i have a battle record with a locked groove i'm gonna use to scratch with. that's 3. which explains why Zabiela demands 3 decks. but why have all battle setups i've seen always consist of just 2 decks? (granted, i haven't looked at that many turntablism videos)

I just wanna say that what JZ is doing isn't completely new to the scene, I've seen local DJs do close to what hes doing now years ago, its just only now its been noticed, I ain't knocking the guy, hes got mad skills and has taken the scene in a direction it has needed to go for some time, I hope to see more skilled DJs of similar style appear as going from track to track is good, but its just not that personal, people need to add there own style to there sets.

I hear you guys talking a lot about records with locked grooves and it's true they do exist.

What's worth keeping in mind though is that with these records you are strictly limited to the sounds that the makers of the record felt like giving you.
With a CDJ you are free to choose your own sounds to lock into a groove.

Let's also be real about this.

You don't need a locked groove or a loop to scratch. That is just preposterous.

What it does do however is the oportunity to add a maniplulated effect to what you are already doing or alternatively adjust something to get a wilder effect.

Bottom line is that it frees you up to do more.

Zabiela can scratch the normal way to as can a fair few of us. But people seem to be missing the point in this massive thread hijack.

The EFX-500 and a CDJ is a means to have fun and be creative with the music.

If for some reason you were to think that you could perform all the turntablist tricks with a any CD deck then you are seriously mistaken.

Stop making this ridiculous comparison between CDJs and regular decks. They are not the same animal and don't offer the same creative options.
The basic tricks offered on CDJS have much easier access and in a sense are more dance music friendly.
Turntables require massive skill and these tricks were not created with dance music in the first place anyway.

To be good with any of these toys requires dedication and creativity so like anything in life you have to pay your dues.

Like DannyO said, Zabiela isn't the first to be doing this and neither was Halliwell. But both have skills plus their face fitted in the right place and right time.
They are world famous and we are not and that's all there is to it.

For the rest of us mortals, it's our job to take on board what they are doing and take it to the next level.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Inertia with the EFX, DJM600, a locked groove with a sample, you could basically do almost every single thing he does, on vinyl.

I dont think so,

If it was possible there would be others doing it with vinyl, im not saying a similar sound cant be acheived but there is something very destinctive about his scratching/effects sounds that can only be done on cdj's

I'm very sorry to inform you but I have battle records with skipless scratch phrases containing same the scratch sample Zabiela was using in the video. I don't see why I couldn't use that record send the channel to an EFX-500 and trans it like Zabiela did. It won't skip either if I do backspins because the sample is skipless. I can backspin then push it forward as hard as I want and it doesn't skip. (actually it does skip but it falls back into the adjacent groove which contains the exact same sample). Its also possible to make a locked groove on ANY record you own, you just need a little piece of tape. Oh yeah and people have been doing the same stuff with vinyl for a long time now. Except for the stuff you need a CDJ1000 for. It does however take more skill if you're using vinyl as you don't get certain features that are on the CDJ1000.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild It does however take more skill if you're using vinyl as you don't get certain features that are on the CDJ1000.

True on the most part... very true indeed.

However there are somethings that I do that I know that you wouldn't be able to do as one person on decks. You would either have to work as a team or grow another set of arms.

I have to agree though, the main thing that CD Decks do with their loop features and hot cues is simplify things a little.

I know you can stick labels on records to creat a loop but let's face it, as a dance music DJ it's not convienient.

When I play I take my memory cards with me and let's face it. It is pretty damn handy.

Whatever anyone else says, I like using CDJs even though I'm a vinyl fan, I can definately see myself taking less records with me next time I have to travel abroad.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by First Strike I dont think so, If it was possible there would be others doing it with vinyl, im not saying a similar sound cant be acheived but there is something very destinctive about his scratching/effects sounds that can only be done on cdj's

The reason you have not seen it done with vinyl is because most turntablists would not be impressed by 30 second long backspins ran through an effects processor. Thats not their thing.

Regardless of this, what zabiela does has been done by other dance djs with vinyl. Dont you understand that what zabiela usually does is loop the "ahhh" sample, and run it through the trans effect, and then add wah, or zip, or something like that.

Thats it, its a scratch loop ran through an effects processor. Now there are loads of records that have the "ahhh" sample in a locked groove...this would be almost, if not the same as the loops he creates with the "ahhh" sample. Now whats stopping you from running this through the trans effect, and adding zip over it?

The main reason everybody is pointing out the locked groove vinyl is cuz you get people posting that they want to do what Zabiela does, but don't have the money to invest in CDJ's. What you need to do the basics is a locked groove vinyl, mixer w/ send & receives, and an efx box. The more $$ you invest in equipment, the less you are limited to.

People keep pointing out that you need a DJM-600 also. Why would you need that, just cuz Zabiela uses it, you now need it? Any mixer w/ send/receives will let you do it, some just better than others.

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