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-- Bush speakes 3 DAYS AFTER and only 35 Million given...woooowww.....
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"...bunch of Tranceaddicts though." That's a very nice way to end a comment.

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Originally posted by occrider Yup amazon seems to be doing a bang up job with their collection effort.

I was wondering what this meant, then I went to Amazon's website and got it. Apparently they have collected 3 million. That is fairly impressive I must say.

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Originally posted by occrider A bunch other countries are sending in military forces to help in the aid effort but I don't know the details. The US is sending in a carrier battle group along with 6 other navy ships. I heard on NPR that these ships have mobile feild hospitals plus fresh water generators which will be the most critical need in warding off disease. http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/200...et-12-28-04.asp

Where abouts was this US carrier located before the disaster?

true abuot US / Aus exchange rates

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Originally posted by tathi Where abouts was this US carrier located before the disaster? true abuot US / Aus exchange rates

Hmmm it seems that the US carrier battle group was in Hong Kong, and the 6 other ships to join the fleet are being redirected from Japan (sailed from San Diego in early december). So I guess the carrier is probably going to take a few days while the ships might take a week or so.

/no clue how fast navy ships move

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Originally posted by Shakka I love how it is America's categorical and moral imperative to send endless aid and no matter how much we send or help, it will never be enough. Name me one country that is currently doing more.

Well, the EU countries have pledged about 70 million dollars so far (just added the sums from the link below).

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/new...10433536336.htm

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil I can't believe people bitch and moan about the US giving aid. Take the US out of the world aid equation and you basically destroy the global aid system.

and without europe its even less...

oh, btw this thread is stupid

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Originally posted by NYGblue http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiap...ites/index.html Make a donation and stop bitching.

^^^^

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Originally posted by St_Andrew Well, the EU countries have pledged about 70 million dollars so far (just added the sums from the link below).

Yeah, there's EU as in "the common funds" and then there is the members of the EU themselves. The main wealth is located with the latter, and that's where we should expect it to come from. Don't know if it is the same with the US and its constituent states. If so, then the $35 million should be seen in a different light.

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: u say the usa is so wealthy. it is, but europe's currency currently has the highest value in the world. they should be paying the most.

I'm no expert on economics, but if you investigated I think that you will find that the value of a currency has little to do with the financial status of the countries where it is used. Compare the british pound with the Swiss franc for example.

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Originally posted by Yoepus Blame mother nature on her perfect timing. The Western world, and by that I mean Europe/USA and most the world with money is in the 'Holiday season'. That means congress is out of session and people are at home with their families, not in offices near their parliment buildings or congress. Bush is in Crawford celebrating Christmas with his family when this event happened...

Well, vacations can be cancelled. In Denmark some government officials had theirs cancelled immediately. The same happened to aid workers. It's a question of priorities: Having a little extra time with your family or trying to prevent a few thousands of deaths due to diseases or malnutrition.

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Originally posted by Yoepus The USA still gives out quantitatively more aid than any other nations in the world. Just because this is a small percent of GNP shouldn't have a bearing on the matter.

If it is a pissing contest, then it does have a bearing on the matter. You wouldn't expect a man crawling his way out of a desert to piss longer than a guy crawling his way out of a bar.

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Originally posted by Yoepus In addition the USA funds a military that allows it to become a superpower. The fact that the USA waste about 1-4% of its GNP on military expenditures to afford it with the ability of a superpower contributes immessurably to other nations and people across the world. USA superpower is a international public good that only Americans pay for.

To say that you clearly need to believe that the US is "the moral leader of the world", as the US military answers to the US government only. As you also said

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Originally posted by Yoepus I think you claim that. I don't recall the American government ever making such claim.

I am curious to know from where you got your impression of the US being morally superior to other countries?

It is generous that people and governments donate their time, resourses and money. Western nations with excess wealth are able to give to victims of disasters.
When there is a problem, we need the American money and aid. But after the problem is resolved, America is bitched at for being evil, supporting Isreal, Invading Iraq for oil or oppressing minorities, etc.

Just take the money and run hypocrites! I understand that there is a true need for this aid but the world tends to bite the hand of the United States after they have been fed.

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Originally posted by Reverend_Trance It is generous that people and governments donate their time, resourses and money. Western nations with excess wealth are able to give to victims of disasters. When there is a problem, we need the American money and aid. But after the problem is resolved, America is bitched at for being evil, supporting Isreal, Invading Iraq for oil or oppressing minorities, etc.

i dont get your logic. You say that since USA is helping countries in some aspects (although not as much as other countries) people have no right to critizice them for other thigns that they do? kindalike a bribe, doesnt make sense to me.

any help is good help IMO

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Originally posted by Reverend_Trance When there is a problem, we need the American money and aid. But after the problem is resolved, America is bitched at for being evil, supporting Isreal, Invading Iraq for oil or oppressing minorities, etc.

Did anyone in Iraq ask for your help? And for that matter, has the problem even been resolved?

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Originally posted by St_Andrew i dont get your logic. You say that since USA is helping countries in some aspects (although not as much as other countries) people have no right to critizice them for other thigns that they do? kindalike a bribe, doesnt make sense to me.

I was just reacting to the B.S. of Mensa. What do you want him to do? He spoke three days after the event. What should he have done? Create a Department of Tidal and Earthquake Security? Said "I feel your pain" comment like Clinton?
Also my money comment was to nations who critizise the policies of the United States. It is not a bribe but genuine aid. This board to a certain extent describes this. The policies of the United States affect its citizens and the world. The president and Congress of the United States make decisions that seem good or beneficial to the US at the time. The world does seem to nit-pick over everything from the debt to Iraq to the color of Bush's crap. I understand it is important to give input and your influence but it is not likely you are going to change his mind.

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Originally posted by Reverend_Trance I was just reacting to the B.S. of Mensa. What do you want him to do? He spoke three days after the event. What should he have done? Create a Department of Tidal and Earthquake Security? Said "I feel your pain" comment like Clinton?

well he probably did enough, i wont say anything about that *yet*.

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Also my money comment was to nations who critizise the policies of the United States. It is not a bribe but genuine aid. This board to a certain extent describes this. The policies of the United States affect its citizens and the world. The president and Congress of the United States make decisions that seem good or beneficial to the US at the time. The world does seem to nit-pick over everything from the debt to Iraq to the color of Bush's crap. I understand it is important to give input and your influence but it is not likely you are going to change his mind.

Here's where you still doesnt really make sense tho.

Why wouldnt we have the right to crtizice your government even tho it does good things too? Everyone does good and bad things, you must still have the right to critizize all the bad things.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew Well, the EU countries have pledged about 70 million dollars so far (just added the sums from the link below). http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/new...10433536336.htm

i think this figures must be wrong/old. I just saw that UK/Spain alone have spend almost 100 million dollars in aid so far...

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Originally posted by St_Andrew well he probably did enough, i wont say anything about that *yet*. Here's where you still doesnt really make sense tho. Why wouldnt we have the right to crtizice your government even tho it does good things too? Everyone does good and bad things, you must still have the right to critizize all the bad things.

It seems to me that the world nit picks on the US and Isreal the most. Criticism is alright, but it seems to me that it is mostly just plain anti-Americanism. Most of our threads resort to name calling. There is a difference between constructive criticism and outright name calling.
For example, the Iraq war was wrong due to.... comapred to "It was the defense of Zionism or No Blood for Oil."
For shit's sake, this thread is about Bush making a statement 3 days after the event. Our local newspaper is also blowing this up. Like my scrcasm of my last post noted is that what could he have done? Make a statement? Money takes time to appropriate. The president needs to get the money through proper channels.

I wonder why.......?

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Originally posted by St_Andrew i think this figures must be wrong/old. I just saw that UK/Spain alone have spend almost 100 million dollars in aid so far...

just to add something to myself again, Sweden alone (with 9 million people) have so far pledged 75 million dollars to this.

twice as much as the US so far, with 2% of the US's population.

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Originally posted by Reverend_Trance It seems to me that the world nit picks on the US and Isreal the most. Criticism is alright, but it seems to me that it is mostly just plain anti-Americanism. Most of our threads resort to name calling. There is a difference between constructive criticism and outright name calling. For example, the Iraq war was wrong due to.... comapred to "It was the defense of Zionism or No Blood for Oil." For shit's sake, this thread is about Bush making a statement 3 days after the event. Our local newspaper is also blowing this up. Like my scrcasm of my last post noted is that what could he have done? Make a statement? Money takes time to appropriate. The president needs to get the money through proper channels.

well of course there will always be people who do the name calling thing ON BOTH SIDES but i think in general, much/most of the criticism is valid.

nit picks is a great phrase..now not to be nit picking..the us and isreal seem to take up an awful lot of news..bad news

Re: Re: Bush speakes 3 DAYS AFTER and only 35 Million given...woooowww.....

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Originally posted by Shakka tektonic plates

tectonic

sorry i'm a geologist

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Originally posted by St_Andrew well of course there will always be people who do the name calling thing ON BOTH SIDES but i think in general, much/most of the criticism is valid.

Criticizing Bush for making a statement three days after an event is valid? The fact that USAID's budget is gone and congress needs time to appropriate more money is a valid criticism? I thought it was well known that the President doesn't control the purse string, congress does.

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Originally posted by occrider Criticizing Bush for making a statement three days after an event is valid? The fact that USAID's budget is gone and congress needs time to appropriate more money is a valid criticism? I thought it was well known that the President doesn't control the purse string, congress does.

i dont think i ever said that the US is doing too litle atm. Quite the opposite i think. What I said was that most/many times it is valid criticism.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew just to add something to myself again, Sweden alone (with 9 million people) have so far pledged 75 million dollars to this. twice as much as the US so far, with 2% of the US's population.

Apparently you seem to be the western country with most citizens caught up in the disaster, too. I guess that has had an effect on making the reality of the catastrophe more apparent to Swedes, and consequently led to more donations? The same tendency can be seen in Norway, which also has a lot of citizens in the areas hit by the waves, and who also has drummed up a lot of money.

dont forget private corporations donations
pfizer alone gave 35 million

coca cola, johnson and johnson, sears, intel, cisco all have their own plans too. (matching or whatsoever)

honestly at this point im not worried about getting enough money. everyone in the world knows the disaster and is helping.

the bigger problem is sorting out the dead.

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Originally posted by policerobots dont forget private corporations donations pfizer alone gave 35 million coca cola, johnson and johnson, sears, intel, cisco all have their own plans too. (matching or whatsoever) honestly at this point im not worried about getting enough money. everyone in the world knows the disaster and is helping. the bigger problem is sorting out the dead.

Yes good post.

I don't think money should be the issue now, but restoring the chaos that has been made, and also..i pray that there won't be any diseases coming out. To many bodies.

Re: Re: Re: Bush speakes 3 DAYS AFTER and only 35 Million given...woooowww.....

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Originally posted by che tectonic sorry i'm a geologist

So it is! No offense taken--thanks for correcting me.



Reading this thread, it sounds like people indeed do want to make it a pissing contest about who's doing what. But in reading deeper, it's not an issue of who is actually doing more, rather it sounds like whose almighty government is doing more. This is sad. This is classic diffusion of responsibility. You want to help? Don't talk trash about what a government is or isn't doing. Make a difference yourself. Even if it's only $5 or just a prayer for those who are unfortunate victims in this natural disaster...the way to help is not by sitting idly by and criticizing the inaction or "stinginess" of others.

But seriously, folks

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IT'S ABOUT THE TRAGEDY - NOT MORE BUSH-BASHING By JOHN PODHORETZ Email Archives Print Reprint December 31, 2004 -- THE political and ideological exploitation of perhaps the worst natural disaster in all our lifetimes is almost beyond belief � were it not for the fact that nothing these days is beyond belief. Even as tears spring into the most hard-hearted person's eyes at both the unimaginable scope of the tragedy and at the wrenching individual stories of loss, opinion leaders just can't help themselves. They are using this cataclysm as little more than cheap debate fodder about the nature and character of the United States, its president and its citizens. Don't misunderstand. It is fine and proper to have a debate and discussion about the degree of generosity the United States could, should and must show in the wake of this literally earth-shaking event. But at this moment, the United States is not the issue. The foreign-aid budget of the United States is not the issue. Our government should not be the focal point of the discussion right now. Don't we owe the dead, dying and injured the minimal grace not to convert their suffering into a chat-show segment � the latest left-right clash over the Bush presidency? And couldn't the editorialists at The New York Times have forborne � even just for a week � making use of the tsunami to complain about U.S. government spending on "development aid"? Development aid is the blanket term for American grant money handed out to other countries, supposedly to help their economies grow. Development aid has nothing � nothing � to do with what has happened. The aid at issue now is disaster relief. Secretary of State Colin Powell found himself in the position of having to remind the world that over the past four years the United States has provided more such aid than all other nations on the planet combined. It is appalling that he had to mention this, and that President Bush was compelled to cite the same information on Wednesday, because you're not supposed to brag about how charitable you are. But once a United Nations official decried the American aid pledge as "stingy," the administration had little choice. Any rational person would have understood without having to be told what the president told the world on Wednesday morning, which is that the $35 million pledge "is only the beginning of our help." But maybe people are looking for a sideshow to distract them from the sickening pictures and the keening cries of the untold numbers of mothers whose babies were swept away.

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